I am not ashamed of the gospel...

[New Testament Christian]

Where's the part in there that says this verse is about saving grace? Sure doesn't sound like it is.

You believe in more than one grace from God?
Romans 1:5 includes Gods grace.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Of course. And you believe works save you while denying that you believe it.

The formula in James is not “faith + works = salvation.” James does not say that works need to be added to faith in order for a person to be saved. Instead, he says that faith either “has” or “does not have” works (v. 17). Faith is either dead or alive. If it is alive, it contains works.
He's not saying that the works save an individual, but that works are a result of real, genuine faith, as opposed to a fake faith.

YOU BELIEVE YOUR FAITH SAVES YOU WHILE DENYING THAT YOU BELIEVE YOU PLAY ANY PART IN YOUR SALVATION.


Yes works save but you dont seem capable of understanding that they cannot save anyone without Gods grace and Jesus' shed blood on the cross.

WORKS ALONE CANNOT SAVE ANYONE EVER!

Ultimately God saves us because we obey His gospel commands.

Just like you are involved in your salvation by meeting the requirement to believe.

Gods part: Grace

Mans part in salvation: Faith

Now deny again man plays no part in his salvation.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Of course. And you believe works save you while denying that you believe it.

The formula in James is not “faith + works = salvation.” James does not say that works need to be added to faith in order for a person to be saved. Instead, he says that faith either “has” or “does not have” works (v. 17). Faith is either dead or alive. If it is alive, it contains works.
He's not saying that the works save an individual, but that works are a result of real, genuine faith, as opposed to a fake faith.

You keep putting words in my mouth.

You keep implying works = merit

I can do a work for God to save me and it not be earned salvation.


James 2:24

James disagrees with your false doctrine

 

[New Testament Christian]

Of course. And you believe works save you while denying that you believe it.

Quit lying that I deny,

I've said from the get go, Works are what saves us,

Colossians 2:12

You think you can be saved without works?
Gods works are what saves us.
Our works are nothing but obeying His gospel.

Without Gods works we cannot be saved

Without our obedience we cannot be saved.

Man plays a part in his salvation.

You know you do!
You admit God will,not save you if you don't believe in him.

That's your part in your salvation

 

[New Testament Christian]

Of course. And you believe works save you while denying that you believe it.

The formula in James is not “faith + works = salvation.” James does not say that works need to be added to faith in order for a person to be saved. Instead, he says that faith either “has” or “does not have” works (v. 17). Faith is either dead or alive. If it is alive, it contains works.
He's not saying that the works save an individual, but that works are a result of real, genuine faith, as opposed to a fake faith.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty DECEIT, ACCORDING TO THE TRADITIONS OF MEN, ACCORDING TO THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE WORLD, AND NOT ACCORDING TO CHRIST.

 

[renniks]

Of course. His calling as an apostle was a gift of grace and that he does that ministry by the power of this grace. That seems to be the context.

You believe in more than one grace from God?
Romans 1:5 includes Gods grace.

 

[renniks]

YOU BELIEVE YOUR FAITH SAVES YOU WHILE DENYING THAT YOU BELIEVE YOU PLAY ANY PART IN YOUR SALVATION.

Nope. Pay attention. I already said my faith doesn't save me. Only God saves.

 

[renniks]

You think you can be saved without works?
Gods works are what saves us.

Bait and switch?
We weren't talking about God's works. Of course they save us. Now quit pretending our works do what his works already did.

 

[renniks]

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty DECEIT, ACCORDING TO THE TRADITIONS OF MEN, ACCORDING TO THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE WORLD, AND NOT ACCORDING TO CHRIST.

Does shouting make you more believable?

 

[renniks]

You know you do!
You admit God will,not save you if you don't believe in him.

Faith is the opposite of works.
It's not trying really hard to make myself good enough so God will like me.
It's not like in Peter Pan, shouting really loud: ,," I do believe, I do believe, I do believe in fairies!"
It's letting go of our selves, not trying really hard to hold onto something.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Of course. His calling as an apostle was a gift of grace and that he does that ministry by the power of this grace. That seems to be the context.

Paul was saved by Grace. If not he never could have become an apostle. Romans 1:5
Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name.

This verse is clear that Paul received Gods grace and apostleship why? For obedience to the faith. Paul teaches here he is saved by an obedient faith. That is the faith that recieves Gods grace.
You are immediately saved by Gods Grace. No grace no salvation.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Faith is the opposite of works.
It's not trying really hard to make myself good enough so God will like me.
It's not like in Peter Pan, shouting really loud: ,," I do believe, I do believe, I do believe in fairies!"
It's letting go of our selves, not trying really hard to hold onto something.

What Bible do you get the definition of Faith from? Not the Holy Bible, that's clear.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now James teaches that saving faith is never alone, James 2:20

You don't understand what Biblical faith is because you think you are saved by a dead faith,

Faith is either dead or alive. If it is alive, it contains works.
He's not saying that the works save an individual, but that works are a result of real, genuine faith, as opposed to a fake faith.

Listen to yourself for a change! Maybe then you won't speak foolishness.

You admit that a genuine faith has works it's a living faith.
As opposed to a dead faith that is not genuine without works.
You just admitted you believe you have been saved by a dead faith(faith without works). You just admitted you believe you have been saved by a dead faith that is not genuine.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Nope. Pay attention. I already said my faith doesn't save me. Only God saves.

Again!!!!!!! Why don't you listen to yourself sometime! Maybe then you would not speak such foolishness!

You just admitted your faith alone is worthless! It can't save you. Those are your words not mine!

Since your faith alone does nothing for you. WHY DO YOU HAVE FAITH. God is not going to save you because of your faith. Then God would just as well save you without your faith.

 

[renniks]

This verse is clear that Paul received Gods grace and apostleship why? For obedience to the faith.

Exactly. Which means even Paul's obedience is grace... not Paul's doing, but God's doing. Without him we can do nothing.

 

[renniks]

You just admitted you believe you have been saved by a dead faith(faith without works). You just admitted you believe you have been saved by a dead faith that is not genuine.

I have no idea where you got this idea when you just quoted me saying the opposite? I said a living faith produces results. Why do you try and put the cart before the horse?

 

[New Testament Christian]

I have no idea where you got this idea when you just quoted me saying the opposite? I said a living faith produces results. Why do you try and put the cart before the horse?

You really don't understand the things you say.

 

[renniks]

Again!!!!!!! Why don't you listen to yourself sometime! Maybe then you would not speak such foolishness!

You just admitted your faith alone is worthless! It can't save you. Those are your words not mine!

Since your faith alone does nothing for you. WHY DO YOU HAVE FAITH. God is not going to save you because of your faith. Then God would just as well save you without your faith.

I have no idea what you are going on about?

 

[New Testament Christian]

I have no idea what you are going on about?

I'll pray for you

 

[renniks]

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes in other words, choosing to believe what God says, and letting go of our natural skepticism. That's not a work.

 

[renniks]

You really don't understand the things you say.

No, you don't understand them, obviously.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Exactly. Which means even Paul's obedience is grace... not Paul's doing, but God's doing. Without him we can do nothing.

So, God obeyed the gospel for Paul is what your saying.