I am not ashamed of the gospel...

[renniks]

So, God obeyed the gospel for Paul is what your saying.

No... but that his ability to obey was God's doing. All Paul did, all we ever do when we get it right, is to allow the Spirit to work through us.
That why there will be people who do many good works in God's name that God will say he never knew. Because they depended on themselves and what they did to get them to heaven instead of trusting only in the work of God.

 

[New Testament Christian]

No... but that his ability to obey was God's doing. All Paul did, all we ever do when we get it right, is to allow the Spirit to work through us.
That why there will be people who do many good works in God's name that God will say he never knew. Because they depended on themselves and what they did to get them to heaven instead of trusting only in the work of God.

O, ok so now you're a calvinist. Paul cannot obey God on his own. I was exactly right! Paul did not obey the gospel. The Holy Spirit obeyed the gospel for Paul. Since Paul cannot do anything

Nope. Pay attention. I already said my faith doesn't save me. Only God saves.

renniks admits his faith does nothing for him. He does not believe the Bible,
John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: FOR IF YE BELIEVE NOT that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

renniks is correct about his faith. Since it has no obedience(works):

It is dead: James 2:26

It is not living.James 2:20

It is not perfect/complete: James 2:22

It cannot justify: James 2:24

It cannot save, it is as a dead corpse without a soul, James 2:26.

Even the demons have faith without obedience: James 2:19

renniks knows faith with no works is not genuine, is dead.
renniks faith without works cannot save anybody!

 

[Guojing]

Ok, except your belief is a false premise.
There is one gospel of Jesus Christ not two.I have provided enough evidence.

Guojing, you have chosen to believe in your New Creation church doctrine rather than new testament doctrine.

Here Is more evidence there is one gospel of Jesus Christ.

Old testament

New testament

That's two testaments.

If your two gospels gospel is correct.

There would be

Old testament (fulfilled by Jesus on the cross)

New testament but becomes old testament ( becomes obsolete)

Another New testament (last testament is binding on jew and gentile permanently)

Now Guojing, you ever come across any Holy Bibles with three testaments ?

One old testament and two new testaments?

If you have let me know.

You already agreed that God has given different gospels, to different groups of people, at different times of the Bible.

2 Samuel 7:12-17 is also a gospel of Jesus Christ. He is that promised son of David.

I am not ashamed of the gospel...

Are you now changing your mind?

 

[Guojing]

Of course. And you believe works save you while denying that you believe it.

The formula in James is not “faith + works = salvation.” James does not say that works need to be added to faith in order for a person to be saved. Instead, he says that faith either “has” or “does not have” works (v. 17). Faith is either dead or alive. If it is alive, it contains works.
He's not saying that the works save an individual, but that works are a result of real, genuine faith, as opposed to a fake faith.

But you agree that James is saying a fake/dead faith cannot save in James 2:14, correct?

 

[New Testament Christian]

You already agreed that God has given different gospels, to different groups of people, at different times of the Bible.

2 Samuel 7:12-17 is also a gospel ABOUT Jesus Christ.

I am not ashamed of the gospel...

Are you now changing your mind?

No, There is only one gospel of Jesus Christ for those living today!
Are you not aware the old testament is just that? An old testament.

We today follow and are under subjection to Jesus' gospel, His new testament.

Your doctrine has two new testaments. There is only one new covenant, one new testament, one will, one law of Christ. Jesus' gospel. Hebrews 9:16-17.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I come to destroy the law of Moses, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Galatians 3:24-26
Wherefore the law of Moses was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith(James 2:24)

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster .

For we are all children of God BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law of Moses for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVETH.

Jesus' gospel is the only good news for all today.

Guojing, do you believe your faith doesn't save you?

 

[renniks]

O, ok so now you're a calvinist. Paul cannot obey God on his own. I was exactly right! Paul did not obey the gospel. The Holy Spirit obeyed the gospel for Paul. Since Paul cannot do anything

No you are wrong. I'm not a Calvinist and that's not what I said. I don't think you even read what I write.

 

[renniks]

But you agree that James is saying a fake/dead faith cannot save in James 2:14, correct?

Sure.

 

[renniks]

renniks admits his faith does nothing for him. He does not believe the Bible,

Sigh. You really have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[New Testament Christian]

But you agree that James is saying a fake/dead faith cannot save in James 2:14, correct?

No you are wrong. I'm not a Calvinist and that's not what I said. I don't think you even read what I write.

I read everything you send me multiple times.

You said Paul did not have the ability on his own to obey the gospel. You said God had to give him the ability to obey the gospel by God giving Paul the Holy Spirit.

No... but that his ability to obey was God's doing. All Paul did, all we ever do when we get it right, is to allow the Spirit to work through us.
That why there will

You said Paul's ability to obey came from God. The Spirit had to do the work of obeying. Holy Spirit did the obeying for Paul.

 

[renniks]

said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: FOR IF YE BELIEVE NOT that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

Right. We have to believe. Belief does not save but God won't save us if we don't believe. See the difference? That's why its by grace through faith.

If I tell you that you are saved from drowning through letting the life guard tow you to shore, did your submission save you or did the life guard save you? You did nothing but allow yourself to be moved. Your surrender didn't save you, the life guard did.

 

[renniks]

You said Paul's ability to obey came from God. The Spirit had to do the work of obeying. Holy Spirit did the obeying for Paul.

Lol, you really don't see the difference between having the ability available and using that ability? Correct, the Holy Spirit gives us the ability but we can still refuse if we want to.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Right. We have to believe. Belief does not save but God won't save us if we don't believe. See the difference? That's why its by grace through faith.

If I tell you that you are saved from drowning through letting the life guard tow you to shore, did your submission save you or did the life guard save you? You did nothing but allow yourself to be moved. Your surrender didn't save you, the life guard

Wrong, the scriptures teach faith does save. It just does not save on it's own.
Without God the things we do cannot do us any good.

But without faith God will not save us. So, Grace saves only through faith, Epheasians 2:8-9.

Proving that man plays a part in his salvation. It is not earning salvation. It is merely obeying by meeting Gods conditions so He saves us.

Grace alone cannot save.
Faith alone cannot save.
Works of obedience alone cannot save.
Nothing alone saves.
Gods grace through our obedient faith saves! Epheasians 2:8-10.

Just as faith doesn't save by itself(alone)
Neither does Gods grace save alone.
This is how works save but just like faith not alone.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Lol, you really don't see the difference between having the ability available and using that ability? Correct, the Holy Spirit gives us the ability but we can still refuse if we want to.

Do lost people who want to be saved have the Holy Spirit?

 

[Guojing]

Sure.

If so, you are also "back loading" works into salvation, just like this NTC whom you are currently debating with.

Every time you want to incorporate James as instructing the Body of Christ too, despite James 1:1, you cannot avoid doing that.

 

[Guojing]

No, There is only one gospel of Jesus Christ for those living today!
Are you not aware the old testament is just that? An old testament.

We today follow and are under subjection to Jesus' gospel, His new testament.

Your doctrine has two new testaments. There is only one new covenant, one new testament, one will, one law of Christ. Jesus' gospel. Hebrews 9:16-17.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I come to destroy the law of Moses, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Galatians 3:24-26
Wherefore the law of Moses was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith(James 2:24)

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster .

For we are all children of God BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law of Moses for righteousness to everyone that BELIEVETH.

Jesus' gospel is the only good news for all today.

Guojing, do you believe your faith doesn't save you?

When you say no, are you saying you no longer believe this?

"God has given different gospels, to different groups of people, at different times of the Bible"

 

[New Testament Christian]

When you say no, are you saying you no longer believe this?

"God has given different gospels, to different groups of people, at different times of the Bible"

I've made myself clear. Do you believe your faith does not save you like renniks?

 

[New Testament Christian]

When you say no, are you saying you no longer believe this?

"God has given different gospels, to different groups of people, at different times of the Bible"

I've answered this question more than once already. I have made myself clear. Do you believe faith does not save you like renniks?

 

[Guojing]

I've answered this question more than once already. I have made myself clear. Do you believe faith does not save you like renniks?

Your answer was a yes originally. But you suddenly said

Ok, except your belief is a false premise.
There is one gospel of Jesus Christ not two.I have provided enough evidence.

You agreed that 2 Samuel 7:12-15 is about a gospel, that is of Jesus Christ?

Do you still believe that?

 

[New Testament Christian]

If so, you are also "back loading" works into salvation, just like this NTC whom you are currently debating with.

Every time you want to incorporate James as instructing the Body of Christ too, despite James 1:1, you cannot avoid doing that.

You're wrong, Guojing. These jews in James were christians. They were saved by the gospel. The ONE GOSPEL. Everything in James also applies to gentile christians.

 

[renniks]

If so, you are also "back loading" works into salvation, just like this NTC whom you are currently debating with.

Every time you want to incorporate James as instructing the Body of Christ too, despite James 1:1, you cannot avoid doing that.

How am I back loading works,? They don't save they are fruit.