I am impressed...and I have questions...

[hamashiachagape]

SOTL, I think you did a great job of answering Satt's questions (hi Satt, and welcome!). However, I do tend to disagree with this statement.

Some people really do have to work on the Sabbath. I gave birth to my first son on a Saturday and I can tell you, I was really glad to have a doctor and some nurses there.

The thing about it is that Jesus knew there would be emergency situations (the sheep in the ditch scenario, for example) and He said it would be lawFUL to do good on the Sabbath.

Where I disagree with other Adventist nurses is that I do not feel they should get paid to work on Sabbath and I think a lot of them use Jesus healing on the Sabbath as an excuse to get weekend pay. Jesus did not get paid to do what He did.

I think with as many nurses out there that don't keep the Sabbath, there should be plenty of nurses to work that day, but if there is an emergency, I would have no problem whatsoever going in to work. I would refuse pay however. I wouldn't allow 5 nurses to be in charge of say 50 patients, and I would consider that situation an emergency FOR the patients.

The problem is, my employer told me that they'd HAVE to pay me if I came in (when I told them I would work on Saturday in an emergency but I'd refuse pay). I just handed them the problem then because I wouldn't have a problem with them not paying me.

I have a feeling if it was an option not to pay me, they'd have an "emergency" every weekend.

I've gone through a lot to get Saturdays off but I know God honors those that honor Him. It's worth it.

If you took money out of the equation, I bet we'd be surprised how many people suddenly don't HAVE to work on Saturdays anymore. Better jobs come along with God's help when someone is threatened with breaking the Sabbath and stands their ground. I believe that with all of my heart.

Amen.

 

[TrustAndObey]

That is well. It is good to pull someone out of the fire on the sabbath as well.

As for what composes a day:

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Sorry about the error about the donkey instead of the sheep. You could say that God does speak from donkeys sometimes.

I erred too, I got my beginning of days backwards. A day starts at sunset and ends again at sunset. It's from sunset to sunset.

There's a lot more verses that explain it as well, Peace out.

 

[bloodbought09]

Joseph's brothers sold him to a caravan going to Egypt out of the pit they threw him in. Who did good on this day? The caravan that bought him this day spent money, and it changed hands into the brothers of Joseph.

Those nurses made money on the day that you were delivering your baby. It was not wrong for them to work and make money. In Jesus story, the person on the sabbath gained a sheep. How much is a sheep worth?

 

[bloodbought09]

I erred too, I got my beginning of days backwards. A day starts at sunset and ends again at sunset. It's from sunset to sunset.

There's a lot more verses that explain it as well, Peace out.

We all can err. Sad to say, some of my brothers and sisters in spirit-filled forum would capitalize greatly on a simple error. We must rightly divide the word of God. The serpent, the dragon, is a twisted serpent that loves to twist scripture to support any unsound doctrine of demons.

Have a blessed day.

 

[bloodbought09]

Hello back!

I love reasoning the scriptures. I've been in my fair share of debates.

However, I work 12-hour shifts and when I'm not working, I don't always have time to get on here.

I follow the rules of debate though and I've found that most people don't. i.e. a point unrefuted stands as truth and if you don't contest it right away (like the very next post) then it's assumed you do agree, but it'd sure be nice to hear that you agree instead of guessing. If you need clarification, just ask.

I also believe that if someone is shown a better explanation than what they currently believe, that they not only admit they changed their mind, but that they'll do their best to explain it to others (share the light).

And I have zero tolerance for personal attacks. It has no place among God's children.

After sunset we're going to put in an offer on a house, so I won't be on here anymore tonight (and working 12 hours tomorrow). It was nice meeting you and I look forward to talking with you.

~Lainie

Lainie, glad to meet you. My name is Ken. I have used personal attacks at times, but have later had to bring peace, repent, and reconcile. We have a ministry of reconciliation. We are told to be angry, but in your wrath, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down on your wrath.

I have been told by that still small voice to not be angry as hell but to be angry at hell. We do not war against flesh and blood but principalities.

Iron sharpens iron and so the countenance of a friend.

Bless.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Joseph's brothers sold him to a caravan going to Egypt out of the pit they threw him in. Who did good on this day? The caravan that bought him this day spent money, and it changed hands into the brothers of Joseph.

Those nurses made money on the day that you were delivering your baby. It was not wrong for them to work and make money. In Jesus story, the person on the sabbath gained a sheep. How much is a sheep worth?

Ken, I believe the story implies that the sheep already belongs to the person that would/should save it from the pit. So preventing a loss of a sheep they already own doesn't mean they gained one.

If you prevent one of your shoes from floating down the river, you didn't gain a shoe, you just saved the one you already had.

The nurses that helped deliver my son may very well have made money that day, I really don't know. My guess is that they were the nurses that were okay wiht working on Sabbath and the Sabbath-keeping nurses weren't there. I wasn't a Sabbath-keeper back in 1994 or I might not have tried so hard to put myself in labor that day.

 

[k4c]

Ceasing labor on the Sabbath is not what makes the Sabbath holy, the Sabbath is holy so as result we cease labor in honor of it's holiness.

Whether one gets paid or not is not what makes labor, labor. If you labor on the Sabbath, whether you are paid or not it's still labor.

Just because someone refuses pay does not justify or nullify it as being labor on the Sabbath.

Jesus was very clear in His teachings on Sabbath observance. He states that labor done as a result of an emergency is not sin nor is labor done as a result of an every day necessary need such as picking grain because one is hungry or loosing and leading away your animals and feeding them one the Sabbath (Luke 13:15).

Jesus used the Old Testement to show how priests worked in the Temple on the Sabbath and were blameless (Matthew 12:4-5). This means it was an OT principle as well. Being a priest was their profession, which means they were paid in some form or another. In the same passage Jesus used the fact that what David did was a violation of law when he ate the show bread but he too was blameless because he did it because he was hungry. These are all principles based on the fact that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

God tells us not to muzzle the ox, which means if someone works they should get paid so it's not a sin to get paid if one works on the Sabbath as long as it falls under service to God or necessary needs that pertain to life.

Listen to this OT incident where soldiers were gathered on the Sabbath by the priest for the purpose of protection. In other words, they were on duty working and getting paid.

2 Kings 11:4-10 In the seventh year Jehoiada sent and brought the captains of hundreds, of the bodyguards and the escorts, and brought them into the house of the Lord to him. And he made a covenant with them and took an oath from them in the house of the Lord, and showed them the king's son. Then he commanded them, saying, "This is what you shall do: One-third of you who come on duty on the Sabbath shall be keeping watch over the king's house, "one-third shall be at the gate of Sur, and one-third at the gate behind the escorts. You shall keep the watch of the house, lest it be broken down. "The two contingents of you who go off duty on the Sabbath shall keep the watch of the house of the Lord for the king. "But you shall surround the king on all sides, every man with his weapons in his hand; and whoever comes within range, let him be put to death. You are to be with the king as he goes out and as he comes in.'' So the captains of the hundreds did according to all that Jehoiada the priest commanded. Each of them took his men who were to be on duty on the Sabbath, with those who were going off duty on the Sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest. And the priest gave the captains of hundreds the spears and shields which had belonged to King David, that were in the temple of the Lord.

Let us listen to the words of Jesus and not become as a pharasee by adding our own little rules to Sabbath keeping.

 

[TrustAndObey]

K4C, I think I pretty much said the same thing and I wasn't adding any rules. I said I differ from other Adventist nurses because I will refuse pay if I'm called in during a true emergency.

I told my employer during the interview that I would not work on Friday night or Saturday days. That was a stipulation of my employment, but in order to get it (they've continually put me down for two Saturdays a month so every month I have to make a trip to the supervisor to change it), I have to work during the week more (the busiest time) and I'm not always with my preceptor who is trained to teach me (and is very kind and knows what she's doing). I've gotten put with some nurses that would eat their young if they had the chance.

Anyway, it's been an ordeal, but it's important to God so it's important to me.

I know enough already to know that if I said I'd receive pay and that I'd come in during an emergency, an emergency would arise every single weekend.

 

[Kira Light]

K4C, I think I pretty much said the same thing and I wasn't adding any rules. I said I differ from other Adventist nurses because I will refuse pay if I'm called in during a true emergency.

I told my employer during the interview that I would not work on Friday night or Saturday days. That was a stipulation of my employment, but in order to get it (they've continually put me down for two Saturdays a month so every month I have to make a trip to the supervisor to change it), I have to work during the week more (the busiest time) and I'm not always with my preceptor who is trained to teach me (and is very kind and knows what she's doing). I've gotten put with some nurses that would eat their young if they had the chance.

Anyway, it's been an ordeal, but it's important to God so it's important to me.

I know enough already to know that if I said I'd receive pay and that I'd come in during an emergency, an emergency would arise every single weekend.

Where in the Bible does it say work is okay if you don't accept pay?

 

[k4c]

K4C, I think I pretty much said the same thing and I wasn't adding any rules. I said I differ from other Adventist nurses because I will refuse pay if I'm called in during a true emergency.

I told my employer during the interview that I would not work on Friday night or Saturday days. That was a stipulation of my employment, but in order to get it (they've continually put me down for two Saturdays a month so every month I have to make a trip to the supervisor to change it), I have to work during the week more (the busiest time) and I'm not always with my preceptor who is trained to teach me (and is very kind and knows what she's doing). I've gotten put with some nurses that would eat their young if they had the chance.

Anyway, it's been an ordeal, but it's important to God so it's important to me.

I know enough already to know that if I said I'd receive pay and that I'd come in during an emergency, an emergency would arise every single weekend.

Can you show me in the Bible where it says working for pay, in an emergency, on the Sabbath is a sin

 

[bloodbought09]

Ken, I believe the story implies that the sheep already belongs to the person that would/should save it from the pit. So preventing a loss of a sheep they already own doesn't mean they gained one.

If you prevent one of your shoes from floating down the river, you didn't gain a shoe, you just saved the one you already had.

The nurses that helped deliver my son may very well have made money that day, I really don't know. My guess is that they were the nurses that were okay wiht working on Sabbath and the Sabbath-keeping nurses weren't there. I wasn't a Sabbath-keeper back in 1994 or I might not have tried so hard to put myself in labor that day.

If a brother is walking in error, and you correct him and he listens to you, you have gained your brother. A prodigal is a lost sheep, so when he has come back, that sheep was lost but now is found. You have recovered a sheep.

The sabbath is the day of rest, and Jesus Christ is the sabbath. He says:

Matthew 11:28-30

28. Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In Proverbs it does warn to not overwork to become rich. For your own understanding, cease.

Psalm 23:1-3

1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters.
3. He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.

Let me apologize about not being so tactful about what I said about Ellen White. We all err, and I have said things I needed to retract. Thank you for being so warm and inviting. The Lord rewards your kindness to one of His children. You sow an invitation and an open door, and reap an invitation to know Christ and to cross the threshold into His kingdom.

I was accused of proselytizing, trying to lead others away from their beliefs. I do not aspire to be a wolf. I have no agenda to lead any to my faith, but to test faith to see if it is strong, and to enjoy the fellowship with those who enjoy the word and seek after truth. My beliefs are challenged every day. If they were not, I might live in delusion. When we stand upon the Rock, nothing can topple us, but if we stand in quicksand, it will be known. I am called by God as an evangelist, so I tend to be more satisfied in reaching out than to be seated and still.

In fact, in some forums I enter you must be strong in the word and in Spirit. I would not want to hand anyone over to the wolves that may infest a forum that the enemy is attacking heavily.

I can bring new insight into what may be comfortable. I may be able to bring something different to the table, but not false doctrine and not twisted scripture to prove false beliefs and to deceive.

God bless you guys for allowing me to share my knowledge, to pour out the Spirit and truth that He has put in me. If I do not empty myself, He cannot fill me again. Bon appetit.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Can you show me in the Bible where it says working for pay, in an emergency, on the Sabbath is a sin

It feels like a loaded question, but I'll give it a shot.

Emergency is the key word here. Being put on a schedule every other week when I said I wouldn't work on Sabbath is not an emergency and I will stand my ground and get it changed every time a new schedule comes out. Eventually they'll get it right because they'll get tired of changing the schedule.

The thing about my profession is that it isn't just a profession. I could go to Ethiopia or wherever and do exactly what I do in the hospital right now, call it a mission trip, and not get paid a dime to do it. Even on mission trips you have to be qualified to provide healthcare and going there wouldn't change a thing about WHAT I do, but it would change the incentive to do it. There would be no personal gain from it (other than the satisfaction of helping someone, which I get while I'm getting paid too).

Jesus healed on the Sabbath and He was accused of working. He wasn't doing carpentry nor did He get paid. If He had done carpentry on the Sabbath, say after a roof being torn off in a tornado, do you think He would've accepted pay for doing it?

I think to truly give on the Sabbath I would want to follow His example. It's as simple as that for me. I don't want money to do what I love on a day that I love. It's a whole other ballgame when you add the words Sabbath and emergency.

I do know an Adventist nurse that works every other Saturday and she donates all the money she makes on that day to her church. I don't doubt for a second that she honors God while she's working on those days, but I do doubt that she's allowed to witness about God when she's there.

People get in car accidents on Sabbath, babies are born on Sabbath, etc. I don't expect Sabbath-keepers to ignore those people....but when it comes right down to it, there are plenty of people willing to work on a Saturday and get weekend pay for it, and I seriously doubt if a true emergency ever arises where I need to go in because there aren't enough people there to do the job.

Sabbath-keepers are the minority.

 

[TrustAndObey]

If a brother is walking in error, and you correct him and he listens to you, you have gained your brother. A prodigal is a lost sheep, so when he has come back, that sheep was lost but now is found. You have recovered a sheep.

But if your own sheep falls in a ditch and you get him out of it, you didn't gain a sheep, you saved one you already had. I think you may be making the scenario of the sheep in a ditch far more complex than it was ever intended to be. Jesus was saying there will be emergency and we are to HELP in emergencies.

The sabbath is the day of rest, and Jesus Christ is the sabbath. He says:

Matthew 11:28-30

28. Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I don't see the word Sabbath in His statement anywhere. Did Jesus mean for this statement to only be true one day a week?

In Proverbs it does warn to not overwork to become rich. For your own understanding, cease.

Psalm 23:1-3

1. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters.
3. He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.

God called the seventh day "MY holy day". It was made for man but it is still HIS day. Our resting on it doesn't change that fact and it isn't just about physical rejuvenation.

Let me apologize about not being so tactful about what I said about Ellen White. We all err, and I have said things I needed to retract. Thank you for being so warm and inviting. The Lord rewards your kindness to one of His children. You sow an invitation and an open door, and reap an invitation to know Christ and to cross the threshold into His kingdom.

I was accused of proselytizing, trying to lead others away from their beliefs. I do not aspire to be a wolf. I have no agenda to lead any to my faith, but to test faith to see if it is strong, and to enjoy the fellowship with those who enjoy the word and seek after truth. My beliefs are challenged every day. If they were not, I might live in delusion. When we stand upon the Rock, nothing can topple us, but if we stand in quicksand, it will be known. I am called by God as an evangelist, so I tend to be more satisfied in reaching out than to be seated and still.

In fact, in some forums I enter you must be strong in the word and in Spirit. I would not want to hand anyone over to the wolves that may infest a forum that the enemy is attacking heavily.

I can bring new insight into what may be comfortable. I may be able to bring something different to the table, but not false doctrine and not twisted scripture to prove false beliefs and to deceive.

God bless you guys for allowing me to share my knowledge, to pour out the Spirit and truth that He has put in me. If I do not empty myself, He cannot fill me again. Bon appetit.

That was the weirdest left-handed apology I've ever seen. Uggh. People that can't just accept that they broke a rule and agree that they did and accept any consequences....well, they don't do well in a world that has rules and consequences.

 

[Servant of the Lord]

The sabbath is the day of rest,

Yes

and Jesus Christ is the sabbath.

No

I have no agenda to lead any to my faith, but to test faith to see if it is strong,

You have yet to post anything here that would show you had any ability to do this. We will wait.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." -Matthew 7:21


-SotL

 

[k4c]

It feels like a loaded question, but I'll give it a shot.

Emergency is the key word here. Being put on a schedule every other week when I said I wouldn't work on Sabbath is not an emergency and I will stand my ground and get it changed every time a new schedule comes out. Eventually they'll get it right because they'll get tired of changing the schedule.

The thing about my profession is that it isn't just a profession. I could go to Ethiopia or wherever and do exactly what I do in the hospital right now, call it a mission trip, and not get paid a dime to do it. Even on mission trips you have to be qualified to provide healthcare and going there wouldn't change a thing about WHAT I do, but it would change the incentive to do it. There would be no personal gain from it (other than the satisfaction of helping someone, which I get while I'm getting paid too).

Jesus healed on the Sabbath and He was accused of working. He wasn't doing carpentry nor did He get paid. If He had done carpentry on the Sabbath, say after a roof being torn off in a tornado, do you think He would've accepted pay for doing it?

I think to truly give on the Sabbath I would want to follow His example. It's as simple as that for me. I don't want money to do what I love on a day that I love. It's a whole other ballgame when you add the words Sabbath and emergency.

I do know an Adventist nurse that works every other Saturday and she donates all the money she makes on that day to her church. I don't doubt for a second that she honors God while she's working on those days, but I do doubt that she's allowed to witness about God when she's there.

People get in car accidents on Sabbath, babies are born on Sabbath, etc. I don't expect Sabbath-keepers to ignore those people....but when it comes right down to it, there are plenty of people willing to work on a Saturday and get weekend pay for it, and I seriously doubt if a true emergency ever arises where I need to go in because there aren't enough people there to do the job.

Sabbath-keepers are the minority.

Not accepting pay on the Sabbath for a job you do the other six days a week does not constitute not working on the Sabbath nor is receiving money for work the qualifying factor the makes work, work. Not receiving pay for work you do on the Sabbath is something that is done out of personal choice and gives an appearance of spirtuality but not receiving physical blessings for work done on the Sabbath is not a biblical command. Did you pay your doctor and everyone else who delivered your baby on the Sabbath or did you stick them with the bill?

There is always some kind of personal compensation for the things we do whether its physical compensation or spiritual compensation.

If you took your nursing skills to the mission field you would still have to be compensated in order to live. If the people you serve on the mission field said they would feed you and give you a place to sleep if you care for their people would you not eat or sleep in the bed on the Sabbath day? Pastors are paid and they work on the Sabbath, farmers, who make a living from their animals feed and care for them on the Sabbath.

There is nothing wrong with refusing pay on the Sabbath as long as it's not done in such a way that leads people to believe it's biblically commanded or that some how not receiving pay on the Sabbath makes everything we do on the Sabbath okay or makes us more spiritual and right with God. It's all about motive and living by the teachings of Jesus.
Remember, the day is holy because God said it's holy not because of what we do or don't do or whether we get paid or not get paid. Jesus taught us how to keep the Sabbath holy in light of service to God and needs pertaing to life. Receiving a blessing on the Sabbath for something we do according to the will of God, whether that blessing is physical or spiritual, is not the issue. The issue is, was the work in line with the teachings of Jesus?

 

[bloodbought09]

Yes



No



You have yet to post anything here that would show you had any ability to do this. We will wait.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." -Matthew 7:21


-SotL

Have a receptive heart and welcome a righteous man as a righteous man, and you will receive a righteous man's reward.

 

[Servant of the Lord]

Have a receptive heart and welcome a righteous man as a righteous man, and you will receive a righteous man's reward.

Don't mind me, I am simply challenging the authority I noted in your words. If indeed you come with intentions to share wisdom, I will be the first one to appreciate it. I don't pick on people, just unfounded ideas. Your comments on Ms. White didn't really help my opinion, but that is water under the bridge.

Welcome to the forum.

-SotL

 

[bloodbought09]

Don't mind me, I am simply challenging the authority I noted in your words. If indeed you come with intentions to share wisdom, I will be the first one to appreciate it. I don't pick on people, just unfounded ideas. Your comments on Ms. White didn't really help my opinion, but that is water under the bridge.

Welcome to the forum.

-SotL

Thank you. Tact is sometimes not my forte. I do not despise prophesy, but if it is not confirmed by God, and does not come to pass, it is not at all prophetic. If any prophesies presumptuously, do not be afraid of them. I saw that one time listening to Benny Hinn. He used to be called prophet Benny until He spoke some prophetic things of the future and they did not come to pass.

Most importantly, do not follow man, but Jesus Christ. It is good to be under a good mentor though. Elijah mentored Elisha. Paul mentored Timothy. Moses passed on his leadership to Joshua. I am not implying that I mentor anyone, but I have been mentored in a church setting and we must mature and go ourselves. Especially if I say, "Here I am Lord. I will go for you."

Maybe you can tell me what this bit about the remnant is. Does it have anything to do with the 144,000 in revelation?

Bless.

 

[bloodbought09]

I think you missed what he said. He said he is not an SDA and doesn't know much about them yet after talking with one he believes what we believe. Isn't that something how someone who is not an SDA yet he reads his Bible and comes to the same conclusion...amazing.

Rather than him PM you in secret he should just read all the post on these forums involving you and the others then he will get the inside scoop into what you believe and try to promote. Then he will know that you and your clan do not stand for God's truth.

That is not a fair assessment. You just said for him to read the posts. To automatically assume that this other man does not stand for God's truth is at this time presumptuous.

 

[Kira Light]

Thank you. Tact is sometimes not my forte. I do not despise prophesy, but if it is not confirmed by God, and does not come to pass, it is not at all prophetic. If any prophesies presumptuously, do not be afraid of them. I saw that one time listening to Benny Hinn. He used to be called prophet Benny until He spoke some prophetic things of the future and they did not come to pass.

Most importantly, do not follow man, but Jesus Christ. It is good to be under a good mentor though. Elijah mentored Elisha. Paul mentored Timothy. Moses passed on his leadership to Joshua. I am not implying that I mentor anyone, but I have been mentored in a church setting and we must mature and go ourselves. Especially if I say, "Here I am Lord. I will go for you."

Maybe you can tell me what this bit about the remnant is. Does it have anything to do with the 144,000 in revelation?

Bless.

The remnant is the 144,000 yes. Whether the number is literal is debated.

If you just read the wikipedia page on the SDA church all your questions will be answered.