I am a Muslim(sort of)

Zoness · Sep 15, 2013

LoAmmi said:
I agree with you. I tend to focus my debates on the claims made by (and by Christianity) rather than the existence of Jesus.

Exactly. Because the claims are what bother me immeasurably more than the man himself.

EnemyOfReason · Sep 15, 2013

Mike to Michael said:
The difference is is that the people buried in the tomb were alive when Jesus was alive and died after his crucifiction.

There is no proof of this. All you have is bones that cannot be verified. How do you know those are the bones of Peter? We do not have pre-existing DNA of him alive obviously.
On top of that the death of Jesus was supposedly 33 AD. Nothing can verify this and only thing that verifies the possible age is the complex built upon it which is between 130 to 300 AD! I actually gave off the wrong information before.

So again your claim falls short based purely on logic. You are not string the chain of events together at all and are working backwards.

They would have known better, especially in Jerusalem, if Jesus was fictional. At the VERY least, a man Jesus existed and he had followers.

There was probably a man never named Jesus nor are we debating the existence of Jesus. Most likely no such man with a name existed but instead a bumbling homeless person or secretive figure. ":Jesus" as you know it would have most likely bore no such name as the name itself is heavily misunderstood and is a formation of various linguistic errors and crossovers.

I'm sorry, but do you have a concrete skull?

Do you?(I already have the answer )
We have been circle talking this whole time while you keep an avoidant stance. None of your "evidence" supports the historicity of a man specifically named Jesus.

We are debating your evidence and its claims, not whether or not Jesus existed or not in any shape or form as I find it irrelevant. I am the one who challenged you, and you bring forth a miserable report that even the pope himself doubts.

I tackle issues head on with aggressive reason, you keep relying on circular fallacies. You "believe Jesus existed so any reference to Christianity is proof that he existed in the flesh and did everything in accordance to the Bible".

All you have done is proven that Christianity was quite popular and that the cross was o significance. I am basing my opinions from the evidence you give me not from exceedingly laughable absurdities in argumentation.

EnemyOfReason · Sep 15, 2013

LoAmmi said:
I agree with you. I tend to focus my debates on the claims made by (and by Christianity) rather than the existence of Jesus.

I have always felt bad for Jews to be honest. I feel as if the 2 major religions of the world have just hijacked Judaism after it's success.

Seems like so many people wish to copy it so dearly. A bigger issue is the fact that neither of these 2 religions even understand Judaism and Christianity on the other hand is very blind to the Tawrat in general and it's message.

It is very evident that Christianity was formed in Greek eyes through Hellenic theology. It is not Judaic at all.

LoAmmi · Sep 15, 2013

TheImmaculateSlaveOfGod said:
I have always felt bad for Jews to be honest. I feel as if the 2 major religions of the world have just hijacked Judaism after it's success.

Maimonides actually said this happened as it was supposed to happen and is, in fact, part of the plan.

EnemyOfReason · Sep 17, 2013

LoAmmi said:
Maimonides actually said this happened as it was supposed to happen and is, in fact, part of the plan.

He was a smart man then .

But it is usual for rifts to occur but never has it been this great where the cult overshadows the original religion

Zoness · Sep 17, 2013

LoAmmi said:
Maimonides actually said this happened as it was supposed to happen and is, in fact, part of the plan.

Good.....gooooooood.....its all part of my master plan.

EnemyOfReason · Sep 17, 2013

Zoness said:
Good.....gooooooood.....its all part of my master plan.

Hey, can I invite Lex Luthor into the fold while we are at it?

EnemyOfReason · Jul 3, 2014

Now I am an atheist Muslim. Oh how weird that I even made this thread but things change.

Zoness · Jul 3, 2014

I can't tell you how many icon changes I've had over the years. Keep on keepin' on.

gord44 · Jul 3, 2014

Zoness said:
I can't tell you how many icon changes I've had over the years. Keep on keepin' on.

Amen to that. All part of the journey.

EnemyOfReason · Jul 3, 2014

gordRedeemed said:
Amen to that. All part of the journey.

My journey has ended . I feel so depressed because of it but then I found philosophy . All is better now

theophilus777 · Jul 3, 2014

EnemyOfReason said:
Now I am an atheist Muslim. Oh how weird that I even made this thread but things change.

I'm confused. Pagan Deist with Muslim flavorings I can understand

You're saying you hold all the same values, just no God?

theophilus777 · Jul 3, 2014

Zoness said:
I can't tell you how many icon changes I've had over the years. Keep on keepin' on.

How long have you been a self-described Deist?

EnemyOfReason · Jul 3, 2014

theophilus777 said:
I'm confused. Pagan Deist with Muslim flavorings I can understand

You're saying you hold all the same values, just no God?

I am just an Atheist who enjoys Islamiyya Fulsifa(Islamic philosophy),Islamic rituals, Arabian poetry and Islamic texts. I am used to them and they are native to me considering I spent so much time with them. I am also very fond of Tasawufa and it is responsible for my departure from Islam.
I am not a pagan nor a Deist and being an atheist I cannot even hold an affiliation to Deism except for the fact that I find the Deistic god the only likely possible god that could exist.

I also find the definition pagan irrelevant because all religions are pagan and birthed from cultures relevant to themselves.

Zoness · Jul 3, 2014

theophilus777 said:
How long have you been a self-described Deist?

Formally using the term? About three months. Informally I've been floating in the Agnostic to Deist camp for about a year or two.

EnemyOfReason · Jul 3, 2014

Zoness said:
Formally using the term? About three months. Informally I've been floating in the Agnostic to Deist camp for about a year or two.

Deism is very unrewarding. Deism itself is based upon a fallacy of thinking in that to be a Deist you must be a presuppositionalist and it is the basis for the Teleological Fallacy(not argument).
I myself an an igtheist(form of atheism). The mere definition of god is not even coherrent and anytime the argument comes up all that one will recieve is varying views about a god or god that it makes no sense.

There is no logical basis for the exact number of gods.
Whether it is he or she or neither.
Is it anthropomorphic, beyond description or formless.
Is it personal or impersonal.
Is it moral or amoral.
Is it benevolent or maleficent.
Did it create a religion or not and if it did which one.
Is it omnipresent.
Is it omniscience.
Is it omnipotent.

Every conclusion about god is counter another conclusion. What a god is is essentially a lengthy list of paradoxes based upon nothing. I cannot even form a coherent definition of a god at all. When the word god comes to mind all that I think of is ignorance. God is only used to fill spaces of ignorance. I have for over a year been only able to come up with a philosophical and symbolic god but never an external one.
So as to what a god even is is irrelevant. It is entirely subjective. If it is subjective then it is a product of the subject and if that is the case t hen even atheism is to some extent pointless. I can only be an atheist to varying gods proposed by varying people but why are all of those ideals even a god to begin with. I can tell them apart distinctly because they have no similarities that unify them at all.

As far as I am concerned a god is only a mental construct and it hsould stay that way. Auto-theism at it's finest .

gord44 · Jul 3, 2014

EnemyOfReason said:
My journey has ended . I feel so depressed because of it but then I found philosophy . All is better now

Hope you find peace on your path friend.

EnemyOfReason · Jul 3, 2014

gordRedeemed said:
Hope you find peace on your path friend.

I am not exactly looking for peace right now, more interested in finding baby back ribs so I can smoke em for the 4th

gord44 · Jul 3, 2014

EnemyOfReason said:
I am not exactly looking for peace right now, more interested in finding baby back ribs so I can smoke em for the 4th

Haha sounds good.

theophilus777 · Jul 4, 2014

Zoness said:
Formally using the term? About three months. Informally I've been floating in the Agnostic to Deist camp for about a year or two.

New change

Forgetting formal definitions and just asking your opinion, is there any significant difference between a theist and a Deist? (And if so, what?)

I am a Muslim(sort of)

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