I am a creationist, but...

[joshua 1 9]

there does not seem to be a consensus among creationists about many things.

There is no contradiction between the various understandings of Creationism because they are all looking at Creation from different perspectives. So they are relative. Gerald Schroeder PhD MIT does a good job of explaining this.

http://www.windowview.org/sci/pgs/bigbang.gs.html

 

[joshua 1 9]

Prove any of this without using your Bible. Can't be done.

There are 200,000 science books in the Library of Harvard University and every one of them proves that Genesis chapter one is accurate and true.

 

[Saintly Sinner]

Personally, I find it apparent that God made life through evolution, but nonetheless made us apart and special from the rest.
Science is simply man's reasoning of the Cosmos- sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong, but evolution probably is how God made the world just as the universe's evolution as well.
It's ~there~ you know- you can look and see for yourself.

To me, it's not a threat against God, but rather a proof of Him. Science has no answer for why we exist and never will because our reality makes no sense without Him.

 

[joshua 1 9]

He told the end from the beginning,

This means God watches over His word to perform and to do what He says He will do.

Isaiah 48:3
I foretold the former things long ago; they came out of My mouth; I proclaimed them. Suddenly I acted, and they came to pass.

I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. KJV

 

[joshua 1 9]

But if the earth is not old, then God 'cheated' the formation of the universe to make it appear old,For example: light of distant stars could not reach us if the earth was only 6000.

There is no time at the speed of light.

Scientists using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope have for the first time precisely measured the distance to one of the oldest objects in the universe, a 13.4 billion-year-old cluster of stars born shortly after the Big Bang. This stellar assembly, a globular star cluster called NGC 6397, is one of the closest such clusters to Earth. The new measurement sets the cluster's distance at 7,800 light-years away, with just a three per cent margin of error. http://www.dnaindia.com/science/rep...t-to-an-ancient-globular-star-cluster-2601594

 

[brocke]

There are 200,000 science books in the Library of Harvard University and every one of them proves that Genesis chapter one is accurate and true.

There are? They do? Care to reference a few?

 

[brocke]

There is no time at the speed of light.

Scientists using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope have for the first time precisely measured the distance to one of the oldest objects in the universe, a 13.4 billion-year-old cluster of stars born shortly after the Big Bang. This stellar assembly, a globular star cluster called NGC 6397, is one of the closest such clusters to Earth. The new measurement sets the cluster's distance at 7,800 light-years away, with just a three per cent margin of error. http://www.dnaindia.com/science/rep...t-to-an-ancient-globular-star-cluster-2601594

Correction time slows down as one approaches the speed of light, it does not mean time does not exist at the speed of light.

Also you confuse a time measurement 13.4 billion years with a distance measurement 7,800 light years. They are not the similar.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Correction time slows down as one approaches the speed of light, it does not mean time does not exist at the speed of light.

Also you confuse a time measurement 13.4 billion years with a distance measurement 7,800 light years. They are not the similar.

Correction: time slows down from the perspective of someone OUTSIDE the event.

 

[miamited]

there does not seem to be a consensus among creationists about many things. Yet, I read numerous arguments against creationism as if it were some unified doctrine.

What puzzles me the most is the constant ruckus over the age of the earth, as if this were the whole of the matter. If creationists do not all agree on the age of the Earth, how can science disproving one theory constitute refutation of creation?

Can anyone from either side of the debate tell me how much time passed between the passages: "In the beginning..." of Genesis 1:1 and "Now, the Earth had become..." of Genesis 1:2?

What we see there is the establishment of the setting. That setting is one of re-creation. Then the narrative goes on to briefly summarize a world before a catastrophe (the flood) and a new beginning. This pattern of renewal/rebirth is then repeated and re-experienced in different ways and on different levels, through bondage and redemption, exile and restoration, etc. all the way to the end when we learn of spiritual re-birth in Christ.

Hi Steven,

Well, I think the first question that you need to resolve is your translation of 'Now the earth had become...'

If one goes to biblestudytools.com and does a comparative translation of Genesis 1:2, there is not a single translation that translates the passage as 'had become'. So, question number one is whether or not God's word means to infer that after God created the earth it was of some form that then coalesced into some other form, or was the earth created with the form of 'formlessness and void', that the Scriptures refer to, at the moment that God commanded the earth to be created?

How one answers that question determines whether the idea of 'recreation' is even a possibility. As I say, all the translations on biblestudytools.com leads one to the conclusion that this form of 'formlessness and void' was how the earth appeared at the moment of God's creating the planet.

If one believes that most bible scholars who have translated this passage are correct in their translating, then the earth was created as it is explained to have been and the explanation of the earth's appearance would also fit into the scenario that the explanation was intended to mean how the earth appeared on day one. Thereby removing any firm foundation that the earth had existed for a long period of time and then coalesced into what it became.

So, before you even get into the discussion of long ages of creation, that issue must be addressed.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[NBB]

There is no time at the speed of light.

Scientists using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope have for the first time precisely measured the distance to one of the oldest objects in the universe, a 13.4 billion-year-old cluster of stars born shortly after the Big Bang. This stellar assembly, a globular star cluster called NGC 6397, is one of the closest such clusters to Earth. The new measurement sets the cluster's distance at 7,800 light-years away, with just a three per cent margin of error. http://www.dnaindia.com/science/rep...t-to-an-ancient-globular-star-cluster-2601594

I don't know where you got that, supposedly the more distant star in milky way is 900,000 light years away, and the more distant galaxy known is 13 billions light years away.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I don't know where you got that,

I gave the link for where I got that information. My main point is that the early universe is still there for us to see.

 

[miamited]

I gave the link for where I got that information. My main point is that the early universe is still there for us to see.

Ahhh, the stuff of science fiction. It's no wonder that people aren't able to comprehend a creation event as simple as God has described.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[oldrunner]

For me it's all a matter of trust in what God said, No butts... No kidding.

It seems most Christians have sided with secular science or "knowledge" (1st Tim 6:20-21) that seems to know everything about everything-and all within the last generation or so it seems. And all this only by observing instruments, and by these instruments, they supposedly have "proved" the universe is X years old and the earth is X years old-to the T. Imagine that!

How gullible are we brethren? We bend over backwards to say, "I'm sorry" for the Bible it seems. The secular world system is out to destroy our faith! Make no mistake, this is war for souls lead by the leader of the world system, Satan. (Eph 6:10-19)

All this great secular knowledge of the cosmos and origins is not pointing people to the one and only true God and Creator, but away from God and to the Church Of Evolution, and to us little gods; that think we are soo smart and have "evolved" to be like- and even better than, that old fashioned, outdated, old, feeble, only True God and Creator! Oh boy! And of course- we can't forget, to bring in the same ole question that the serpent had in the beginning, "has God said"? (Gen 3) When are we going to man up?

Satan don't change his tactics, he just repackages them to cause us to doubt God and His word. But remember, God made Adam and Eve fully grown and He made everything with the appearance of maturity at just the right "age" -if you will, to be the most productive and told them to multiply. Trees and Grass had seed heads and fruit. It's not a stretch to think He made everything like this everywhere; with the light already where it needed to be and trees that were at their old, mature age already, and diamonds and precious stones already made. (Ezek 28) Not to deceive but to make it perfect-like a fine wine, or layered oil painting.

And to top it off, there was a world-wide flood that changed the whole Earth with a ton of erosion after, and it got rid of; like ALL the unbelievers-if I remember right. So, it's kinda hard to know what the old Earth was like and how that effects readings on these new fangled, scientific instruments on this new fangled Earth, IMO.

This IS a faith issue-as pointed out above, because nobody can recreate the experiment, and we weren't there. It will always be a faith issue and a battle. But I'd rather be a dumb, stupid, fundamental Christian, that believes in the inspired Scriptures- and He who inspired them and preserved them, than all the fancy new science that supposedly proves them wrong.

Can I get an Amen here!? Thanks for reading! P.S. Please forgive my poor grammar.

 

[Steve Petersen]

For me it's all a matter of trust in what God said, No butts... No kidding.

It seems most Christians have sided with secular science or "knowledge" (1st Tim 6:20-21) that seems to know everything about everything-and all within the last generation or so it seems. And all this only by observing instruments, and by these instruments, they supposedly have "proved" the universe is X years old and the earth is X years old-to the T. Imagine that!

How gullible are we brethren? We bend over backwards to say, "I'm sorry" for the Bible it seems. The secular world system is out to destroy our faith! Make no mistake, this is war for souls lead by the leader of the world system, Satan. (Eph 6:10-19)

All this great secular knowledge of the cosmos and origins is not pointing people to the one and only true God and Creator, but away from God and to the Church Of Evolution, and to us little gods; that think we are soo smart and have "evolved" to be like- and even better than, that old fashioned, outdated, old, feeble, only True God and Creator! Oh boy! And of course- we can't forget, to bring in the same ole question that the serpent had in the beginning, "has God said"? (Gen 3) When are we going to man up?

Satan don't change his tactics, he just repackages them to cause us to doubt God and His word. But remember, God made Adam and Eve fully grown and He made everything with the appearance of maturity at just the right "age" -if you will, to be the most productive and told them to multiply. Trees and Grass had seed heads and fruit. It's not a stretch to think He made everything like this everywhere; with the light already where it needed to be and trees that were at their old, mature age already, and diamonds and precious stones already made. (Ezek 28) Not to deceive but to make it perfect-like a fine wine, or layered oil painting.

And to top it off, there was a world-wide flood that changed the whole Earth with a ton of erosion after, and it got rid of; like ALL the unbelievers-if I remember right. So, it's kinda hard to know what the old Earth was like and how that effects readings on these new fangled, scientific instruments on this new fangled Earth, IMO.

This IS a faith issue-as pointed out above, because nobody can recreate the experiment, and we weren't there. It will always be a faith issue and a battle. But I'd rather be a dumb, stupid, fundamental Christian, that believes in the inspired Scriptures- and He who inspired them and preserved them, than all the fancy new science that supposedly proves them wrong.

Can I get an Amen here!? Thanks for reading! P.S. Please forgive my poor grammar.

How about an "Oh, man!"

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

What causes doubt is that the biblical account and the physical evidence don't agree. We need to revisit the 'translation' as the physical evidence won't change. So many dinosaurs living with early man yet no mention of them in any history and no physical evidence that we occupied the earth at the same time.

Actually, more mention of the dinosaurs in history than any physical evidence we find today. I understand most dinosaur skeletons in museums are constructed based on a single bone or two.

So probably it's your belief about the physical evidence being inconsistent with the biblical account which is in error.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Devil walked in garden of eden sinless for some time untill iniquity become alive in his heart so any gap theory does not exist nor can it .

Ezekiel 28:13-14

That's a reference to the first Eden, made for the angels, and from which Lucifer rebelled, not the Eden of Genesis.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"OldWiseGuy, post: "What causes doubt is that the biblical account and the physical evidence don't agree. We need to revisit the 'translation' as the physical evidence won't change. So many dinosaurs living with early man yet no mention of them in any history and no physical evidence that we occupied the earth at the same time."

"What causes doubt is that the biblical account and the physical evidence don't agree."

What causes doubt is YOU CHOOSING to believe a very clearly worldly view over the words of the living God. Who was there. Sad. Very sad...

The words of the living God need to be properly translated.

Do you believe that Eve merely "gave" the fruit to Adam?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Actually, more mention of the dinosaurs in history than any physical evidence we find today. I understand most dinosaur skeletons in museums are constructed based on a single bone or two.

So probably it's your belief about the physical evidence being inconsistent with the biblical account which is in error.

Gap theory solves all the problems I have with it.

 

[Chinchilla]

That's a reference to the first Eden, made for the angels, and from which Lucifer rebelled, not the Eden of Genesis.

So a Gap theory ?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So a Gap theory ?

Biiiiig gap.