Hypothetical: Creationism becomes standard in science classes

[AV1611VET]

If the facts of reality disagree with the statements of humans, then the statements of humans are wrong - not the facts of reality.

Does reality include the kingdom of God? or is it relegated to the empirical?

 

[Ken Behrens]

And I would judge the accuracy of the colors in the photographs by seeing how other objects in the same photo are colored.

Here's an answer for your challenge to show one star passing behind another.

Binary star - Wikipedia

The article in Wikepedia has an interesting MOTION PICTURE - based on images, not an interpretive drawing - of an eclipsing binary, in which the stars that orbit each other happen to line up in such a way as to have one go behind the other on a periodic, regular basis. The article has a discussion as to how this helps astronomers determine stellar distances more accurately.

I already stated, I don't mean eclipsing binaries. Fort's argument deals with stars at different distances from earth. All stars in a binary system are roughly the same distance from earth.

 

[KWCrazy]

Creation would more likely be taught in History class.

 

[Ken Behrens]

There have been many cases where DNA evidence has contradicted eye witness testimony, and the DNA evidence has won out. The thing about DNA is that it can't lie. Humans can lie, and they can be seriously mistaken.

But let the defense prove that the DNA sample was out of police custody even for a few minutes (by testimony), and the evidence is thrown out.

 

[Ken Behrens]

You should ask for a refund.

Most of the training was free, because I had the highest scores on qualification tests. Since it has earned me about a million dollars so far, this idea is not applicable. Speaking of which, there is solid data that my teaching work has already added scores of times that value to the GNP of the USA.

Which is why I am so concerned about the dwindling interest in science. If this continues, the young scientists of today will find that analogous figures are not true of their careers.

 

[Ken Behrens]

No, that's pretty much what you literally showed: a general willingness to agree with any and all evidence that you can align with your religious beliefs, coupled with a general willingness to reject any and all evidence that does not.

This is as good a place for this response to be given to you folks. The theory I was taught in 1975 has now been extended by a lot of scientific work. The review given here ()just posted by a Facebook contact of mine this morning) could be improved with more references, but is enough to get you started. If the theory is true, then it provides a way in which the appearance of human life will literally alter the visible universe to what the humans expect it to be. Scientific Experiments Show That DNA Begins as a Quantum Wave and Not as a Molecule

 

[bhsmte]

Delusions of grandeur?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Luke 19:37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
Luke 19:38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Unless geologist don't see the [rocks and] stones crying out the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, geologists aren't doing their job very well.

And it is probably because their adherence to science and evolution that is giving them myopia.

You are telling the rocks what to say instead of listening to the rocks as to what they are actually saying.

It is not the job of the rocks to testify for Jesus. It is the job of the disciples. Don't ask the rocks to do your job.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

This is as good a place for this response to be given to you folks. The theory I was taught in 1975 has now been extended by a lot of scientific work. The review given here ()just posted by a Facebook contact of mine this morning) could be improved with more references, but is enough to get you started. If the theory is true, then it provides a way in which the appearance of human life will literally alter the visible universe to what the humans expect it to be. Scientific Experiments Show That DNA Begins as a Quantum Wave and Not as a Molecule

The woo is strong with this one.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I already stated, I don't mean eclipsing binaries. Fort's argument deals with stars at different distances from earth. All stars in a binary system are roughly the same distance from earth.

Ah . . . so you DO admit the stars are at different distances from earth, and Fort was wrong. Now stop acting as if he could be taken seriously.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Creation would more likely be taught in History class.

History of science would be a great course and creationism could be mentioned in such a course. The conflicts of religion with science throughout history is something everybody should be aware of.

 

[KWCrazy]

History of science would be a great course and creationism could be mentioned in such a course. The conflicts of religion with science throughout history is something everybody should be aware of.

I think it would be advantageous to help children understand that science and religion are not incompatible but they deal with entirely different parameters. Science deals with the way the laws of nature work in the physical world. Religion deals with the supernatural doesn't follow the same laws.

 

[Loudmouth]

But let the defense prove that the DNA sample was out of police custody even for a few minutes (by testimony), and the evidence is thrown out.

Why not claim that the laws of nature were different at the crime scene? Why not claim that God planted the DNA at the crime scene?

 

[Loudmouth]

I think it would be advantageous to help children understand that science and religion are not incompatible but they deal with entirely different parameters. Science deals with the way the laws of nature work in the physical world. Religion deals with the supernatural doesn't follow the same laws.

The problem is that some religions make statements about the way nature works.

 

[Loudmouth]

This is as good a place for this response to be given to you folks. The theory I was taught in 1975 has now been extended by a lot of scientific work. The review given here ()just posted by a Facebook contact of mine this morning) could be improved with more references, but is enough to get you started. If the theory is true, then it provides a way in which the appearance of human life will literally alter the visible universe to what the humans expect it to be. Scientific Experiments Show That DNA Begins as a Quantum Wave and Not as a Molecule

In all of those experiments they started with molecules.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Didn't he say 10000 years old? That's only a factor of 1.6 times the YEC date. Can you check what you know about these limits and see if 1.6 is unreasonable? Or maybe his date is wrong?

He said greater than 10,000 years, but not a specific number. You have to understand that there are always limiting factors in nature as to how quickly populations can grow and die. 1.6x normal growth rates on average can be disastrous, even if the organisms are capable of it. Consider algal blooms, for example, and how the have this tendency to poison the marine life around them.

Furthermore, when such growth happens, the organisms involved die off very fast thanks to overcrowding, reducing how much they would grow in population by a significant extent for the next few years.

Also, consider the fact that the flood would have wreaked marine life for centuries. That's right, centuries, and I am being generous with that. There should be a huge gap in those chalk deposits that have different sediments if the flood occurred, because nearly the whole population of all marine life would have died.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Ah . . . so you DO admit the stars are at different distances from earth, and Fort was wrong. Now stop acting as if he could be taken seriously.

Of course not. I just stated binary star systems are not an adequate counterexample, because the argument For used only applies if there is some distance between star 1 and star 2

 

[Ken Behrens]

Why not claim that the laws of nature were different at the crime scene? Why not claim that God planted the DNA at the crime scene?

That claim can only be raised under conditions of extrapolation as I have posted.

 

[Ken Behrens]

In all of those experiments they started with molecules.

Why is this important? How would you change the experiments to get a more convincing proof or disproof if what they are claiming is true?

 

[Ken Behrens]

He said greater than 10,000 years, but not a specific number. You have to understand that there are always limiting factors in nature as to how quickly populations can grow and die. 1.6x normal growth rates on average can be disastrous, even if the organisms are capable of it. Consider algal blooms, for example, and how the have this tendency to poison the marine life around them.

Furthermore, when such growth happens, the organisms involved die off very fast thanks to overcrowding, reducing how much they would grow in population by a significant extent for the next few years.

Also, consider the fact that the flood would have wreaked marine life for centuries. That's right, centuries, and I am being generous with that. There should be a huge gap in those chalk deposits that have different sediments if the flood occurred, because nearly the whole population of all marine life would have died.

You know far more about this than I do, as this is your area of specialization. I just think: specifically 10k/6k=1.67. Even 1.8 does not sound like a lot to me, but it seems to cause you to think that it is too large to have occurred. So let me ask: Is algal blossoms a good example for this specific case? Can you provide a model that would take into consideration the death rate due to overcrowding, and what the maximum possible long term growth rate could be? Is it possible that destruction of marine life just in the immediate area could have occurred (I can substantiate the likelihood of that from the existing literary reports)? Finally, would a partial tearing hypothesis work: like the land was split at the cliffs of Dover creating some sort of deep fissure where conditions were right for the algae, then the algae grew at an accelerated rate, and finally the land split again allowing the ocean to fill the space left by the gap? I can substantiate the possibility of final tearing (from the written records) approximately 1700 years after the flood.