Hypothetical 10 year old who died without being baptized.

[Acts2:38]

So the thief on the cross was not saved then, because certainly he was not baptized. That is what you are promoting.

Jesus did not tell the thief on the cross, "Go and get baptized and today you will be with me in paradise."

The thief was still under the Old Law because Christ was not dead yet. Christ was talking to him still. Christ was still within the power of the OT Law to save the thief without the NT covenant.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The thief was still under the Old Law because Christ was not dead yet. Christ was talking to him still. Christ was still within the power of the OT Law to save the thief without the NT covenant.

You're rationalizing. He is a Christian Saint.

Forgive me...

 

[Acts2:38]

Then God will give him justice because he was unrepentant and apparently did not trust in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

Baptism follows after justification, but Baptism has no salvific power. Baptism is not required for salvation. Baptism is a symbolic profession of faith and following in obedience to Jesus Christ after God's work of grace in the individual.

I refer you to post #26

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I apologize, but this went right over my head.

Question: Are you saying that the bible is not the only authority when you say "However, Orthodox Christians are not locked in to 'scripture only'."?

I didn't want to assume and I was curious if that is what you are saying.

As for the rest of what you said, I missed the point and I am sorry. Could you rephrase it another way?

Two users with the same question. I hope you will both see this answer.

The Church is the authority over scripture. It really shouldn't surprise us as all the authors of the NT are Christians and members of The Church.

The canon of Christian NT scriptures and what OT to use along with them wasn't even decided before 325ad.

Keeping it short, nobody wants to read long posts. There's a whole lot of detail to the history of the canon. Why it was gathered, how it was dispersed with a calendar.... etc.

Forgive me...

 

[Acts2:38]

You're rationalizing. He is a Christian Saint.

Forgive me...

Huh? How is Christ a christian saint? He is the Son of God, the builder and founder of THE church, Christs church.

There were no Christians til the book of Acts.

They were still under the OT law until Christ was dead, buried and resurrected on the cross.

I don't have to rationalize as scripture states it clearly. I just read it and believe it.

 

[fhansen]

So the thief on the cross was not saved then, because certainly he was not baptized. That is what you are promoting.

Jesus did not tell the thief on the cross, "Go and get baptized and today you will be with me in paradise."

The thief on the cross did the best he could with the opportunities given. Had he been allowed down from the cross, he would've been expected to desire and receive his baptism, in loving obedience to He who commanded it.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Huh? How is Christ a christian saint? He is the Son of God, the builder and founder of THE church, Christs church.

There were no Christians til the book of Acts.

They were still under the OT law until Christ was dead, buried and resurrected on the cross.

I don't have to rationalize as scripture states it clearly. I just read it and believe it.

The thief on the cross is a Christian Saint. That's new covenant.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Huh? How is Christ a christian saint? He is the Son of God, the builder and founder of THE church, Christs church.

There were no Christians til the book of Acts.

They were still under the OT law until Christ was dead, buried and resurrected on the cross.

I don't have to rationalize as scripture states it clearly. I just read it and believe it.

They were first called Christians in Antioch. It is that very Church that I have been studying for the last 12 years. She still exists today as the only Apostolic Church that has never had a break in her history.

What you hear me saying is what The Church of Antioch teaches.

Forgive me...

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

The thief on the cross is a Christian Saint. That's new covenant.

Forgive me...

That's sort of the muslim view isn't it? That JESUS is just a saint or philosopher?

 

[Acts2:38]

Two users with the same question. I hope you will both see this answer.

The Church is the authority over scripture. It really shouldn't surprise us as all the authors of the NT are Christians and members of The Church.

The canon of Christian NT scriptures and what OT to use along with them wasn't even decided before 325ad.

Keeping it short, nobody wants to read long posts. There's a whole lot of detail to the history of the canon. Why it was gathered, how it was dispersed with a calendar.... etc.

Forgive me...

Sorry, but according to scripture this is a flat out NO. The gospel is "that which is perfect" (1 Cor.13:8-10). The church was set up by Christ, through Peters confesstion (Matt16:18-19; Acts 2), and is not written by men except through holy men by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Pet.1:20-21).

The bible is the only authority that is the grounds on which the church, Christ's church, stands. It was left here for us to trust and obey in all things pertaining to our salvation and how we conduct ourselves, etc.

 

[fhansen]

I apologize, but this went right over my head.

Question: Are you saying that the bible is not the only authority when you say "However, Orthodox Christians are not locked in to 'scripture only'."?

I didn't want to assume and I was curious if that is what you are saying.

As for the rest of what you said, I missed the point and I am sorry. Could you rephrase it another way?

One good evidence for why Scripture cannot be the only authority is that Sola Scriptura adherents themselves disagree on the necessity of baptism for regeneration.

 

[Hank77]

Then God will give him justice because he was unrepentant and apparently did not trust in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

I think maybe you are a Calvinist?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

That's sort of the muslim view isn't it? That JESUS is just a saint or philosopher?

How did you confuse the thief with Christ... there were three crosses. The thief on the left denied Christ. The thief of the right asked forgiveness.

Forgive me...

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

One good evidence for why Scripture cannot be the only authority is that Sola Scriptura adherents themselves disagree on the necessity of baptism for regeneration.

And why does it matter if they disagree over baptism?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

How did you confuse the thief with Christ... there were three crosses. The thief on the left denied Christ. The thief of the right asked forgiveness.

Forgive me...

OH my bad I thought you were referring to christ in your statement didn't' read it correctly

 

[Acts2:38]

They were first called Christians in Antioch. It is that very Church that I have been studying for the last 12 years. She still exists today as the only Apostolic Church that has never had a break in her history.

What you hear me saying is what The Church of Antioch teaches.

Forgive me...

You contradicted yourself here from what you said before.

 

[Hank77]

Where does the Bible say that there is such a thing as an "age of accountability"?

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign, Lo, the Virgin is conceiving, And is bringing forth a son, And hath called his name Immanuel,
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey he doth eat, When he knoweth to refuse evil, and to fix on good.
Isa 7:16 For before the youth doth know To refuse evil, and to fix on good, Forsaken is the land thou art vexed with, because of her two kings.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Sorry, but according to scripture this is a flat out NO. The gospel is "that which is perfect" (1 Cor.13:8-10). The church was set up by Christ, through Peters confesstion (Matt16:18-19; Acts 2), and is not written by men except through holy men by the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Pet.1:20-21).

The bible is the only authority that is the grounds on which the church, Christ's church, stands. It was left here for us to trust and obey in all things pertaining to our salvation and how we conduct ourselves, etc.

Totally backward.

Here's the problem. "The Church" exists before any NT scripture. It was written by her for her purposes and none other. She is the teaching authority on it's use and meaning.

In modern times we are searching for a Church in hopes of finding one we agree with... this makes scripture the anchor, because we (rightly so) do not trust these so called Churches. That's because we all know deep down that they are not who they claim to be.

It becomes a trap we fall into... listening to everyone's opinion and leaving off the very worship for which they were written, gathered and dispersed.

Forgive me...

 

[fhansen]

And why does it matter if they disagree over baptism?

??? Because it has to do with justification/salvation!! That's the whole idea behind regeneration.

 

[Acts2:38]

One good evidence for why Scripture cannot be the only authority is that Sola Scriptura adherents themselves disagree on the necessity of baptism for regeneration.

So you think scripture to be in error because men who are in error? Scripture stands as perfect and the only authority by which you/we will be judged in the last day. Jesus said it Himself, John 12:48.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You contradicted yourself here from what you said before.

Perhaps you have misunderstood what I said. Please clarify what contradiction you see.

Forgive me...