Husbands Authority

[Lucky9]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

Based on whatever faith you are, I am curious how Ephesians 5:21-33 is interpreted to mean, to you.

The reason I ask this, is because I believe (and feel) that my husband is misinterpreting the scriptures and is possibly abusing this "authority". See, I am a non-denominational Christian and he is a Catholic. I do all that I can to respect his faith. I tend to avoid any arguments or really any discussions regarding the differences in our beliefs, because it always ends up in an argument that he won't let go. When we met we were both ND, but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

Meanwhile, despite how I have kept my mouth shut about the things I disagree with, or I do not like, about his faith, he does not show me the same respect. He is constantly making comments, snide remarks, often attacks me for stances I take, based on my faith, calls me a heretic, and without actually saying it outright, has told me I'm not saved unless I'm a Catholic.

And now my daughter is going for her first communion and he wants me to attend the ceremony/church service. I refuse. I went to her baptism and I have gone to his church for several other ceremonies for him, but I just can't go back there. His church really makes me uncomfortable and I am very against going again. As well, I have a different belief the whole communion meaning, and I don't agree with the Catholic take on it, therefore I do not want to be a part of something I don't really agree with. I agree in Communion, but as it relates to remembrance of what Christ has done, not as a transubstantiation issue.

And my husband doesn't get that. He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do. I wholeheartedly disagree this is what Eph 5 means., in relation to what he's asking for. Am I wrong? Or is he?

 

[God bless Joshua]

If you insist on your faith alone he will keep pushing you to the edge.
You need to do the fasting.

Do you hv a job ?

 

[Haipule]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

Based on whatever faith you are, I am curious how Ephesians 5:21-33 is interpreted to mean, to you.

The reason I ask this, is because I believe (and feel) that my husband is misinterpreting the scriptures and is possibly abusing this "authority". See, I am a non-denominational Christian and he is a Catholic. I do all that I can to respect his faith. I tend to avoid any arguments or really any discussions regarding the differences in our beliefs, because it always ends up in an argument that he won't let go. When we met we were both ND, but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

Meanwhile, despite how I have kept my mouth shut about the things I disagree with, or I do not like, about his faith, he does not show me the same respect. He is constantly making comments, snide remarks, often attacks me for stances I take, based on my faith, calls me a heretic, and without actually saying it outright, has told me I'm not saved unless I'm a Catholic.

And now my daughter is going for her first communion and he wants me to attend the ceremony/church service. I refuse. I went to her baptism and I have gone to his church for several other ceremonies for him, but I just can't go back there. His church really makes me uncomfortable and I am very against going again. As well, I have a different belief the whole communion meaning, and I don't agree with the Catholic take on it, therefore I do not want to be a part of something I don't really agree with. I agree in Communion, but as it relates to remembrance of what Christ has done, not as a transubstantiation issue.

And my husband doesn't get that. He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do. I wholeheartedly disagree this is what Eph 5 means., in relation to what he's asking for. Am I wrong? Or is he?[/QUOTE
Transubstantiation? They've GOT to be kidding right?!

I could go into that but it seems pointless to argue with them and you don't need my help there.

But, I will translate Eph 5:22 for you to set up the passage:

There is a big difference between:

Wives, be subject(imperative mood, middle voice, illogically translated as simply an active voice) to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22 NASB

And:

Wives, be(!) subject(acting upon yourselves, logically/prudently--middle voice. You are not to be subject to tyrants!) to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22 NASB

However, the verb "be subject" is not in the older and more authoritative texts that the NASB uses. Unfortunately, they added it anyway and I can't begin to give you a reason!

But translated hyper-literally says:

The-all wives(Paul is speaking to wives only), to-thee-all own-all husbands(referring to one but the words are plural in the Greek) as to-thee Lord, Eph 5:22

Paul was NOT a sexist despite many whom disagree and most certainly didn't add a verb of subjection here!

'To husband as to the Lord', takes on way, way more meaning then merely "subjection"!

Maybe your husband should learn all what is required of him before he points his finger at you!

 

[Haipule]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

Based on whatever faith you are, I am curious how Ephesians 5:21-33 is interpreted to mean, to you.

The reason I ask this, is because I believe (and feel) that my husband is misinterpreting the scriptures and is possibly abusing this "authority". See, I am a non-denominational Christian and he is a Catholic. I do all that I can to respect his faith. I tend to avoid any arguments or really any discussions regarding the differences in our beliefs, because it always ends up in an argument that he won't let go. When we met we were both ND, but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

Meanwhile, despite how I have kept my mouth shut about the things I disagree with, or I do not like, about his faith, he does not show me the same respect. He is constantly making comments, snide remarks, often attacks me for stances I take, based on my faith, calls me a heretic, and without actually saying it outright, has told me I'm not saved unless I'm a Catholic.

And now my daughter is going for her first communion and he wants me to attend the ceremony/church service. I refuse. I went to her baptism and I have gone to his church for several other ceremonies for him, but I just can't go back there. His church really makes me uncomfortable and I am very against going again. As well, I have a different belief the whole communion meaning, and I don't agree with the Catholic take on it, therefore I do not want to be a part of something I don't really agree with. I agree in Communion, but as it relates to remembrance of what Christ has done, not as a transubstantiation issue.

And my husband doesn't get that. He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do. I wholeheartedly disagree this is what Eph 5 means., in relation to what he's asking for. Am I wrong? Or is he?[/QUOTE
Transubstantiation? They've GOT to be kidding right?!

I could go into that but it seems pointless to argue with them and you don't need my help there.

But, I will translate Eph 5:22 for you to set up the passage:

There is a big difference between:

Wives, be subject(imperative mood, middle voice, illogically translated as simply an active voice) to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22 NASB

And:

Wives, be(!) subject(acting upon yourselves, logically/prudently--middle voice. You are not to be subject to tyrants!) to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22 NASB

However, the verb "be subject" is not in the older and more authoritative texts that the NASB uses. Unfortunately, they added it anyway and I can't begin to give you a reason!

But translated hyper-literally says:

The-all wives(Paul is speaking to wives only), to-thee-all own-all husbands(referring to one but the words are plural in the Greek) as to-thee Lord, Eph 5:22

Paul was NOT a sexist despite many whom disagree and most certainly didn't add a verb of subjection here!

'To your husband as to the Lord', takes on way, way more meaning then merely "subjection"! If your husband had at least some the qualities of our Master Jesus through studying His words which apparently, he does not.

Maybe your husband should learn all what is required of him before he points his finger at you!

 

[Haipule]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

Based on whatever faith you are, I am curious how Ephesians 5:21-33 is interpreted to mean, to you.

The reason I ask this, is because I believe (and feel) that my husband is misinterpreting the scriptures and is possibly abusing this "authority". See, I am a non-denominational Christian and he is a Catholic. I do all that I can to respect his faith. I tend to avoid any arguments or really any discussions regarding the differences in our beliefs, because it always ends up in an argument that he won't let go. When we met we were both ND, but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

Meanwhile, despite how I have kept my mouth shut about the things I disagree with, or I do not like, about his faith, he does not show me the same respect. He is constantly making comments, snide remarks, often attacks me for stances I take, based on my faith, calls me a heretic, and without actually saying it outright, has told me I'm not saved unless I'm a Catholic.

And now my daughter is going for her first communion and he wants me to attend the ceremony/church service. I refuse. I went to her baptism and I have gone to his church for several other ceremonies for him, but I just can't go back there. His church really makes me uncomfortable and I am very against going again. As well, I have a different belief the whole communion meaning, and I don't agree with the Catholic take on it, therefore I do not want to be a part of something I don't really agree with. I agree in Communion, but as it relates to remembrance of what Christ has done, not as a transubstantiation issue.

And my husband doesn't get that. He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do. I wholeheartedly disagree this is what Eph 5 means., in relation to what he's asking for. Am I wrong? Or is he?

I'll try this again but, I can't seem to post my post. Is your husband a moderator?

There is a big difference between:

Wives, be subject(imperative mood, middle voice, illogically translated as simply an active voice) to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22 NASB

And:

Wives, be(!) subject(acting upon yourselves, logically/prudently--middle voice. You are not to be subject to tyrants!) to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Eph 5:22 NASB

The older manuscripts used by the NASB, which are considered more authoritative, do not contain the verb "be-subject". However, they added it anyway. I couldn't tell you why but, it is lame.

Rather: The wife's(Paul speaking to the wives) to-thee own husbands as to-thee Lord, Eph 5:22

I think that speaks far more then "subjection" once your husband learns his part!

 

[St_Worm2]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

Based on whatever faith you are, I am curious how Ephesians 5:21-33 is interpreted to mean, to you.

The reason I ask this, is because I believe (and feel) that my husband is misinterpreting the scriptures and is possibly abusing this "authority". See, I am a non-denominational Christian and he is a Catholic. I do all that I can to respect his faith. I tend to avoid any arguments or really any discussions regarding the differences in our beliefs, because it always ends up in an argument that he won't let go. When we met we were both ND, but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

Meanwhile, despite how I have kept my mouth shut about the things I disagree with, or I do not like, about his faith, he does not show me the same respect. He is constantly making comments, snide remarks, often attacks me for stances I take, based on my faith, calls me a heretic, and without actually saying it outright, has told me I'm not saved unless I'm a Catholic.

And now my daughter is going for her first communion and he wants me to attend the ceremony/church service. I refuse. I went to her baptism and I have gone to his church for several other ceremonies for him, but I just can't go back there. His church really makes me uncomfortable and I am very against going again. As well, I have a different belief the whole communion meaning, and I don't agree with the Catholic take on it, therefore I do not want to be a part of something I don't really agree with. I agree in Communion, but as it relates to remembrance of what Christ has done, not as a transubstantiation issue.

And my husband doesn't get that. He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do. I wholeheartedly disagree this is what Eph 5 means., in relation to what he's asking for. Am I wrong? Or is he?

Hi Lucky9, have you taken this up with 'your' pastor yet? If not, my advice is to do so immediately, to seek both his support and advice, and he can be praying for you as well (as you have a pretty sticky situation on your hands, IMHO).

Praying for you!

He is, of course, not interpreting Ephesians 5 correctly (MANY do not ), which I'm at least hopeful his priest would point out to him if the two of you went into see him about this. I would make a point of going to see your pastor first and foremost however, and run this all past him before you make a move like that.

You will also find that the RCC does not consider Protestants to be undoubted reprobates any longer, simply because we are not RC's, but instead, they now refer to us "separated brethren", so he is incorrect on that point as well, at least as the "official" position of the RCC (check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church online if you don't own a copy).

It almost sounds like he's taking your reluctance to change to his newfound church/faith as some kind of personal rejection of him, so maybe you could assure him that it has nothing to do with him, but rather, has everything to do with what you firmly believe about the Bible and the Christian faith at this point in your life.

Was he ALWAYS leaning towards Rome? If you know he wasn't, ask him why he wasn't, and when he tells you it's because he didn't know and understand what he does now, you can reply by saying, "right, that's the very reason that I'm not ready to embrace it right now too".

Remind him too that while you respected his decision to go to a different church (and still do), that you would very much appreciate his respecting you and what you believe (the very faith, in fact, that he USED to believe ).

You could also tell him that you 'might' make the decision to change churches someday too, but that you'd need to get to the point that he has for yourself before that would ever happen (and to please respect the fact that you haven't come to that point yet).

You could also ask him that if you decide to change churches, would he ever want you to do so reluctantly and dishonestly? .. because that's the only way it would happen if he 'forces' you to make a decision about the RCC that you aren't willing or ready to make right now (doing so would mean that you would have to begin to believe certain things that you now stand opposed to, which means selling out the dictates of your conscience).

My concern is for your marriage and your family (as I'm sure yours is as well). As such, is there anyway you two might work out a compromise, perhaps by taking one week a month and going to each other's churches instead of your own .. or in addition to your own churches .. as well having open, respectful discussions about what each church believes and why, for the sake of both your kids and your marriage?

Look, you need to see your pastor about this .. cf Hebrews 13:17 (who knows both of you personally, yes), so I am going to stop giving you advice now

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26; Isaiah 40:31; Isaiah 41:10)

--David
p.s. - like an ex-smoker, ex-Protestants who've become RC's (in particular) tend to be far more aggressive about their newfound faith than any of my "cradle Catholic" friends have ever been, because not only are they excited about their newly discovered faith, they've also just finished convincing themselves of all the reasons why their old faith was worth leaving in the first place!

 

[Haipule]

I want to massage her with scented oils from head to toe, back to front, under candle light playing her favorite music: wiggle all her toes and kiss her nose and everything in between and promise her 5-2.

And upon such a suggestion, all I want to hear is, "Yes, my lord".

 

[Micah888]

He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do.

When it comes to your relation with God and Christ, and all spiritual matters, your husband cannot compel you to violate your conscience or your convictions. That is clearly a misapplication of wives being subject to their own husbands. The biblical principle is that we should obey God rather than men.

However, you should have seen this coming when you married a Catholic. Have a meeting with your pastor where your husband is present, so that this matter is addressed.

 

[St_Worm2]

...you should have seen this coming when you married a Catholic.

Just FYI, I don't believe she did.

When we met we were both ND [non-denominational], but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

 

[Dave-W]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

I have a problem with one word of that: OVER.

Biblical authority is never "over." It always comes from the bottom up.

 

[Lucky9]

Hi Lucky9, have you taken this up with 'your' pastor yet? If not, my advice is to do so immediately, to seek both his support and advice, and he can be praying for you as well (as you have a pretty sticky situation on your hands, IMHO).

Praying for you!

He is, of course, not interpreting Ephesians 5 correctly (MANY do not ), which I'm at least hopeful his priest would point out to him if the two of you went into see him about this. I would make a point of going to see your pastor first and foremost however, and run this all past him before you make a move like that.

You will also find that the RCC does not consider Protestants to be undoubted reprobates any longer, simply because we are not RC's, but instead, they now refer to us "separated brethren", so he is incorrect on that point as well, at least as the "official" position of the RCC (check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church online if you don't own a copy).

It almost sounds like he's taking your reluctance to change to his newfound church/faith as some kind of personal rejection of him, so maybe you could assure him that it has nothing to do with him, but rather, has everything to do with what you firmly believe about the Bible and the Christian faith at this point in your life.

Was he ALWAYS leaning towards Rome? If you know he wasn't, ask him why he wasn't, and when he tells you it's because he didn't know and understand what he does now, you can reply by saying, "right, that's the very reason that I'm not ready to embrace it right now too".

Remind him too that while you respected his decision to go to a different church (and still do), that you would very much appreciate his respecting you and what you believe (the very faith, in fact, that he USED to believe ).

You could also tell him that you 'might' make the decision to change churches someday too, but that you'd need to get to the point that he has for yourself before that would ever happen (and to please respect the fact that you haven't come to that point yet).

You could also ask him that if you decide to change churches, would he ever want you to do so reluctantly and dishonestly? .. because that's the only way it would happen if he 'forces' you to make a decision about the RCC that you aren't willing or ready to make right now (doing so would mean that you would have to begin to believe certain things that you now stand opposed to, which means selling out the dictates of your conscience).

My concern is for your marriage and your family (as I'm sure yours is as well). As such, is there anyway you two might work out a compromise, perhaps by taking one week a month and going to each other's churches instead of your own .. or in addition to your own churches .. as well having open, respectful discussions about what each church believes and why, for the sake of both your kids and your marriage?

Look, you need to see your pastor about this .. cf Hebrews 13:17 (who knows both of you personally, yes), so I am going to stop giving you advice now

God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26; Isaiah 40:31; Isaiah 41:10)

--David
p.s. - like an ex-smoker, ex-Protestants who've become RC's (in particular) tend to be far more aggressive about their newfound faith than any of my "cradle Catholic" friends have ever been, because not only are they excited about their newly discovered faith, they've also just finished convincing themselves of all the reasons why their old faith was worth leaving in the first place!

Just to clarify, my husband is demanding I go to this one ceremony wherein our daughter is taking her first communion. I would be lying if I said part of my decision not to go, is because I am very uncomfortable going to his church and feel very creeped out just being there. But this decision is based on the fact that I do not hold the same belief as he/his church does, on what the communion means, so this whole communion "ceremony" is not something I agree with and feel if I go, it would be going against what I believe. I also feel if I don't draw the line at some point and hold my ground with my convictions and what I'm willing/not willing to participate in, in relation to his church, he'll continue to push every time there's a special ceremony for any reason. Now that two of our children are involved in his church, I'm quite sure more of these events will come up.

He decided a year ago, November, that our kids would all attend his church only for a year to learn about Catholicism. And then they'd have a choice on where they wanted to go. I did not agree to that, but had no choice, because he "put his foot down as leader of the house", so I basically had no say in the matter. Our oldest (16) pushed back the most and after a year, my husband finally let him stop going to his church. But our two youngest (14 and 10) decided they wanted to continue going. I told my husband then, that this was a choice he was making, they were making, and not to expect me to be going with them or be involved in that choice, because there's a reason I'm not a Catholic. I almost feel like my husband is using our kids to try to convert me. On one hand, he'll tell me he knows not to push to convert someone, etc etc. Then on the other, he'll do these manipulative things, and say things, that contradict that, and to try and get me to go to his church.

When this all started, he didn't discuss anything with me about becoming a Catholic. We talked a lot before we got married, and although he was raised Catholic when he was younger, his whole family stopped practicing when he was about 10, so he never really "lived" the Catholic faith, because he never really practiced it. It wasn't until he was 40 years old, that his parents found an SSPX church, when he finally decided on his own, that that was what he wanted to be now. We didn't discuss it. He didn't even approach me about it at all, he just made that decision all on his own. And I'm fine with that, but I did tell him, there's a difference in our beliefs and I was not, and am not, on board with his beliefs.

If my beliefs ever come up, he seems to take personal offense. One time it was about Mary and how I don't believe she was sinless, or that she ascended into Heaven, and you would have thought I just peed on his own mother. He seems incapable of having different beliefs, and agreeing to disagree. He can't ever discuss anything, unless I'm in full agreement with him, or he gets angry, to the point of literally having a dramatic argument. My beliefs I have had my entire life. I was raised non-denom and we practiced our faith continually. My family even had a singing group, when I was younger, and we would travel to different churches and sing. The only time I've not really practiced was in my early 20's, but I got back into it before I met him and have been practicing ever since. We practiced our faith together, until he decided to become Catholic. And now it feels like it's his way or continual bullying until I submit.

At this point, the more I research, study the Bible, and learn about the Catholic faith/beliefs and what the Bible actually says, the more "Protestant" I become to it. But like I said, I don't let on how I truly feel. I can't unless I want a fight, which I never do. And then crap like this happens, and he misinterprets scripture to fit his needs, and then metaphorically speaking, bangs me over the head with the Bible, and here we are. And I don't even think he ever reads the Bible, because the only book I see him reading is his Catholic Missile. So I don't even think he KNOWS the Bible.

Sorry, I'm just venting now....but that's where I'm at. I honestly don't know what my pastor is going to say that's going to help this, when my husband won't see anyone unless they are a Priest and there are no Priests available for counseling right now, at his Perish. And he most certainly won't listen to MY pastor, because.......we're "heretic".

 

[faroukfarouk]

He does have authority but not over your conscience. Hebrews 9 is a wonderful chapter which among other things speaks of the Godward aspect of the believer's conscience.

 

[Lucky9]

If you insist on your faith alone he will keep pushing you to the edge.
You need to do the fasting.

Do you hv a job ?

Yes, I do have a job, full time, outside of the home. We both work.

 

[Denadii]

I am curious about what others think about what the husbands Biblical "authority" over his wife is?

Based on whatever faith you are, I am curious how Ephesians 5:21-33 is interpreted to mean, to you.

The reason I ask this, is because I believe (and feel) that my husband is misinterpreting the scriptures and is possibly abusing this "authority". See, I am a non-denominational Christian and he is a Catholic. I do all that I can to respect his faith. I tend to avoid any arguments or really any discussions regarding the differences in our beliefs, because it always ends up in an argument that he won't let go. When we met we were both ND, but then he chose to go the Catholic route about 6 years ago and now has 2 of our kids going that route too. That's the decision they made, and I'm ok with that, but I don't agree with it. I just choose to be respectful and leave them to their dads instruction. Although I will still do a bible study/daily devotion with them on my end.

Meanwhile, despite how I have kept my mouth shut about the things I disagree with, or I do not like, about his faith, he does not show me the same respect. He is constantly making comments, snide remarks, often attacks me for stances I take, based on my faith, calls me a heretic, and without actually saying it outright, has told me I'm not saved unless I'm a Catholic.

And now my daughter is going for her first communion and he wants me to attend the ceremony/church service. I refuse. I went to her baptism and I have gone to his church for several other ceremonies for him, but I just can't go back there. His church really makes me uncomfortable and I am very against going again. As well, I have a different belief the whole communion meaning, and I don't agree with the Catholic take on it, therefore I do not want to be a part of something I don't really agree with. I agree in Communion, but as it relates to remembrance of what Christ has done, not as a transubstantiation issue.

And my husband doesn't get that. He demanded I go to his church, and I refused, so now he's telling me what a terrible person, wife, Christian I am, because I won't obey him. And that I'm ignoring the Bible and what it says to do, and that he has authority to tell me what to do. I wholeheartedly disagree this is what Eph 5 means., in relation to what he's asking for. Am I wrong? Or is he?

Isn't it interesting how Christians look at the first part. "Wives should submit to their husbands as they do to the Lord; 23 because the husband is head of the wife, just as the Messiah, as head of the Messianic Community, is himself the one who keeps the body safe. 24 Just as the Messianic Community submits to the Messiah, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." and then ignore the second part? "As for husbands, love your wives, just as the Messiah loved the Messianic Community, indeed, gave himself up on its behalf..."
Look at Jesus...How did He come? In what capacity did He come? People Jesus came as a servant! He came as a sacrificial lamb! He did not lord it over anybody. He served right from the start.....So....
Husbands...serve your wives....put them first...Their needs their best interests etc are to come long before your needs as far as you are concerned.

Now the wife.....The word submit means to make yourself accountable...Not submissive as a slave...The wife is EQUAL to the husband but in a team there is always a leader....Not a boss, not a ruler, not having dominion but having the respo nsibility to answer to the (in this case) Lord. The husband is responsible if the family is broken, gets lost, does things wrong...It's the husband who has to answer...So he voices the decision....But I will also say....Any husband who ignores his wifes advice, or does not seek it is a d---- fool! God gave us wives to be a help because we need it. Women see things from an entirely different perspective than men do. We need that perspective.... There is more to it....Give it some thought...

Lucky9 It sounds like your hubby needs to swallow some 'smart' pills.

 

[Dave-W]

and then ignore the second part? "As for husbands, love your wives, just as the Messiah loved the Messianic Community, indeed, gave himself up on its behalf..."

Or completely blow off Heb 13.17:

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

I ask this of every man who wants women to submit to him: Are you willing to lead by example and be submissive TO THE SAME DEGREE to your congregational leaders?

 

[Denadii]

Or completely blow off Heb 13.17:

Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

I ask this of every man who wants women to submit to him: Are you willing to lead by example and be submissive TO THE SAME DEGREE to your congregational leaders?

This is off topic somewhat so I hope Lucky9 does not mind...I do have trouble with the notion that a pastor has authority over me. Where does it say he does?

 

[Dave-W]

.I do have trouble with the notion that a pastor has authority over me. Where does it say he does?

Remember biblical authority is from the bottom up, NOT the top down.

Heb 13.17 talks about imitating the faith of our congregational leaders, and verse 17 says to submit to them. There is the authority. They have to give an account to God for every wrong decision and attitude you have.

 

[Denadii]

Remember biblical authority is from the bottom up, NOT the top down.

Heb 13.17 talks about imitating the faith of our congregational leaders, and verse 17 says to submit to them. There is the authority. They have to give an account to God for every wrong decision and attitude you have.

Actually I was hoping to talk Bible, not religion. No place in the bible does it say a pastor has authority over his congregation, nowhere in the bible does it say he can dicipline a member of his congregation.

Remember biblical authority is from the bottom up, NOT the top down.

Heb 13.17 talks about imitating the faith of our congregational leaders, and verse 17 says to submit to them. There is the authority. They have to give an account to God for every wrong decision and attitude you have.

Matthew 23:8-10; Ephesians 4:11-16;
So you're saying that if I give a pastor authority over me, I should obey him. That's logical. What if I do not give him that authority? The bible does not give a pastor that authority.

 

[ValleyGal]

Interesting how no one has brought up Eph 5:21, that we should submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Submission is placing someone else above you, and has nothing to do with authority. But we are to submit to one another... This puts all of us on the same level; there is no hierarchy.

 

[Micah888]

Biblical authority is never "over." It always comes from the bottom up.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3).

If we rearrange this for a clearer understanding:
1. the head of Christ is God.
2. the head of every man is Christ
3. the head of the woman is the man

As we can see, God is at the top, and authority flows downwards.