Hundreds of Experts Call on US

[Niels]

Not that I'm aware of Alex but I'm not American and I don't live in the US. I'm also not fixated on a simplistic left vs right dichotomy.

Can I make a suggestion? Instead of labelling everything left or right, why not look at each organisation or concept on its own merits? I know it involves actually thinking about stuff but there is an unfortunate element of black and white thinking associated with this US fixation on left vs right. It's also a very obvious trait I see in many Christians.

Make a judgement about the idea or organisation based on a little research instead of automatically characterising it as good or bad based on a left or right orientation.

OB

I tend to agree with what you're saying here. The only thing I would add is that the fixation on left vs. right can be observed many people regardless of their theological views. I don't see evidence for Christians being more or less susceptible to this. It's more of a common human tendency.

 

[AlexB23]

Well the argument that these doctors are wrong because they hold certain activist beliefs doesn't hold up if you believe in gender affirming care....because that comes from WPATH, an activist group of doctors who hold certain beliefs.

If you only believe in "neutral doctors" I'm not sure exactly which ones those are....but the doctors in Sweden and England only appear to care about the healthcare of children, because they're government paid and not profit driven.

Agreed. Profits are the issue here. That is why leftists in the United States are getting brainwashed to do this gender bending stuff.

 

[AlexB23]

Got it. When inconvenient reality rears its head, Christians should just pretend it doesn't exist.



SPLC calls out hate groups. Left or right.

The perception of this as being in favour of one side of US politics over the other, or the fact that one side more than the other is called out, is probably a sad indictment of one side.

I am not a hater, but this trans stuff has got to go. It just makes people hate democrats even more. Biden would probably get more votes from centrists and center right folks if he stopped pushing trans stuff.

 

[Occams Barber]

I tend to agree with what you're saying here. The only thing I would add is that the fixation on left vs. right can be observed many people regardless of their theological views. I don't see evidence for Christians being more or less susceptible to this. It's more of a common human tendency.

It's very obvious from the outside. I'd describe it more as black/white absolutism* rather than left/right although they are very closely correlated since conservatism tends to reject change. It stems from a generalised need for certainty. The most obvious form is valuing certain Christian beliefs because they lack evidence or, as I call it, making a virtue out of ignorance.

It also manifests in the difficulty many Christians have in understanding that science can and does change its thinking as new concepts are discovered and old ideas are jettisoned. Many Christians see this changeability as a weakness compared to the certainty of Christian concepts. This changeability produces an uncertainty which in turn affects believability.

* the holding of absolute principles in political, philosophical, or theological matters

OB

 

[eleos1954]

To put a stop to "gender affirming care", puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and surgeries for children.

Follow the science they said. The data is clear they said. Biological sex is a reality and should be considered important.

It's nice to see the sane doctors of other nations point out that the recent deceptions of the WPATH files (where whistleblowers at WPATH, the pseudo medical trans activists who came up with gender affirming care) and various other studies showing these treatments are in fact harmful to children.

Why are we lagging behind? Politics and money of course. You think that the people pushing this stuff will say "Oops? Sorry we permanently damaged your children." On an election year?

It's Not based on science

https://adflegal.org/article/leaked-files-reveal-ethical-concerns-pseudoscience-wpath-standards-care

 

[Niels]

It's very obvious from the outside. I'd describe it more as black/white absolutism* rather than left/right although they are very closely correlated since conservatism tends to reject change. It stems from a generalised need for certainty. The most obvious form is valuing certain Christian beliefs because they lack evidence or, as I call it, making a virtue out of ignorance.

It also manifests in the difficulty many Christians have in understanding that science can and does change its thinking as new concepts are discovered and old ideas are jettisoned. Many Christians see this changeability as a weakness compared to the certainty of Christian concepts. This changeability produces an uncertainty which in turn affects believability.

* the holding of absolute principles in political, philosophical, or theological matters

OB

Your experience differs from mine. I don't personally know many who value ignorance. Regarding the ignorant, it is better to address their ignorance for what it is regardless of whether they are Christian or not. Especially, when dealing with a group as large as Christianity. In such a large demographic you will find a wide range of attitudes and aptitudes.

If fighting ignorance is truly a concern of yours, it would be better to say "many people" than "many Christians" lest we fall into the kind of black/white thinking that reveals itself in prejudice.

Science is agnostic regarding theological points of view. One can be Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, etc. or Atheist while practicing science and benefiting from its discoveries. When dealing with research, we should care more about its quality than the religion (or lack thereof) of the researcher.

Which brings us back to the OP. There remains the question of which experts are more credible. It shouldn't be a matter of finding experts who agree with us, but whose conclusions are the most beneficial. In the case of a medical and psychological subject like this, which approach will result in less harm.

 

[BCP1928]

I am not a hater, but this trans stuff has got to go. It just makes people hate democrats even more. Biden would probably get more votes from centrists and center right folks if he stopped pushing trans stuff.

You've got that right. I feel sorry for LGBT people and the shabby treatment they are sure to get from a Trump administration, but it's a dumb hill for Democrats to pick to die on. They've been having trouble with these culture war issues all along. They have been entirely blind about how some people take these issues. Even Christians on the "left" have no real idea how important gender conformity is to some people and how closely it is tied to their faith..

 

[ozso]

It's so disturbing that so many are so desperate for kids to get as messed up as possible.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I miss when, if we needed medical care, we consulted our doctors instead of legislators.

 

[AlexB23]

You've got that right. I feel sorry for LGBT people and the shabby treatment they are sure to get from a Trump administration, but it's a dumb hill for Democrats to pick to die on. They've been having trouble with these culture war issues all along. They have been entirely blind about how some people take these issues. Even Christians on the "left" have no real idea how important gender conformity is to some people and how closely it is tied to their faith..

Amen, I feel sorry for the LGBT community's treatment from a Trump administration, but the gender bending stuff on minors is the worst thing the democrats can choose. In other words, some members of the left have got up and "left" the democratic party for abandoning logic and centrist ideals.

 

[AlexB23]

It's so disturbing that so many are so desperate for kids to get as messed up as possible.

Agreed 100%. And it is disturbing how if we were to show old-school democrats from the 1990s the junk science that the modern democratic party is pushing on people, how starkly different the world is in 2024. I wonder how many classic democrats have given up on supporting the democratic party recently.

 

[BCP1928]

Amen, I feel sorry for the LGBT community's treatment from a Trump administration, but the gender bending stuff on minors is the worst thing the democrats can choose. In other words, some members of the left have got up and "left" the democratic party for abandoning logic and centrist ideals.

The problem is, it is not going on to anything like the extent the Right wants us to believe. How many kids have actually be subjected to gender reassignment surgery? They don't know. How many of these surgeries were performed without parental consent? They don't know. What is actually being taught to real kids in real classrooms about LGBT? They don't know that, either. Definitely a no-win for Democrats. There's nothing to argue against except manufactured outrage. It's time to throw LGBTs under the campaign bus. I'm sorry for them, but there are more important issues at stake.

 

[AlexB23]

The problem is, it is not going on to anything like the extent the Right wants us to believe. How many kids have actually be subjected to gender reassignment surgery? They don't know. How many of these surgeries were performed without parental consent? They don't know. What is actually being taught to real kids in real classrooms about LGBT? They don't know that, either. Definitely a no-win for Democrats. There's nothing to argue against except manufactured outrage. It's time to throw LGBTs under the campaign bus. I'm sorry for them, but there are more important issues at stake.

Even if one trans surgery on a kid was performed without parental consent, this is still bad. 1 > 0, so therefore, in order to prevent kids from getting mutilated, we should outright ban gender bending surgeries.

This is why I am against the trans movement, as progressive churches have pushed this trans movement on kids as well.

Apostate church has a Drag Queen Story Hour (Duration: 13 min 40 s, age rating: 17+ due to heavy topic)

Video Summary:
In a video titled "The church is supposed to be a place of worship, not a place for woke ideology," Mr. Vlad Savchuk expresses concern about the increasing incorporation of progressive ideas and practices into mainstream churches. He specifically mentions instances where drag queens have been invited to lead children's sermons and adult services in United Methodist and Presbyterian churches.

Savchuk criticizes these events as promoting a distorted view of gender and religious beliefs that contradict traditional Christian values. He argues that these churches, instead of standing firm on biblical principles, are conforming to cultural trends and are losing their purity, presence, power, and purpose as institutions of faith.

According to Savchuk, the goal of bringing drag queens into churches is to introduce children to the LGBTQ+ lifestyle as something acceptable and worth emulating. He believes that the focus on children, churches, and libraries is deliberate, aiming to influence future generations and further normalize nontraditional, demonic lifestyles within society.

In conclusion, Mr. Savchuck calls on viewers to consider whether their own churches prioritize purity, presence, power, and purpose in line with biblical teaching. He encourages followers to resist churches that compromise their faith for cultural acceptance and to remain steadfast in their convictions despite societal pressures.

 

[BCP1928]

Even if one trans surgery on a kid was performed without parental consent, this is still bad. 1 > 0, so therefore, in order to prevent kids from getting mutilated, we should outright ban gender bending surgeries.

This is why I am against the trans movement, as progressive churches have pushed this trans movement on kids as well.

Apostate church has a Drag Queen Story Hour (Duration: 13 min 40 s, age rating: 17+ due to heavy topic)

Video Summary:
In a video titled "The church is supposed to be a place of worship, not a place for woke ideology," Mr. Vlad Savchuk expresses concern about the increasing incorporation of progressive ideas and practices into mainstream churches. He specifically mentions instances where drag queens have been invited to lead children's sermons and adult services in United Methodist and Presbyterian churches.

Savchuk criticizes these events as promoting a distorted view of gender and religious beliefs that contradict traditional Christian values. He argues that these churches, instead of standing firm on biblical principles, are conforming to cultural trends and are losing their purity, presence, power, and purpose as institutions of faith.

According to Savchuk, the goal of bringing drag queens into churches is to introduce children to the LGBTQ+ lifestyle as something acceptable and worth emulating. He believes that the focus on children, churches, and libraries is deliberate, aiming to influence future generations and further normalize nontraditional, demonic lifestyles within society.

In conclusion, Mr. Savchuck calls on viewers to consider whether their own churches prioritize purity, presence, power, and purpose in line with biblical teaching. He encourages followers to resist churches that compromise their faith for cultural acceptance and to remain steadfast in their convictions despite societal pressures.

Sounds like the old "Drag Queens can turn kids gay by reading to them" canard.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Agreed 100%. And it is disturbing how if we were to show old-school democrats from the 1990s the junk science that the modern democratic party is pushing on people, how starkly different the world is in 2024. I wonder how many classic democrats have given up on supporting the democratic party recently.

My dad died from cancer many decades ago now, but he was a staunch Carter supporter. I, being me, was a Reagan supporter. I was never able to vote for him... But I really liked him, and he was my introduction into politics through middle and high school.

I've often wondered if my dad would be a Trump voter now if he were here. I like to think he would have supported Trump, but all this is so out there I just don't know.

I just can't imagine that he'd be on board with any of this though... I personally think he'd be shocked at what's happened to the Democratic party. To America really.

 

[AlexB23]

My dad died from cancer many decades ago now, but he was a staunch Carter supporter. I, being me, was a Reagan supporter. I was never able to vote for him... But I really liked him, and he was my introduction into politics through middle and high school.

I've often wondered if my dad would be a Trump voter now if he were here. I like to think he would have supported Trump, but all this is so out there I just don't know.

I just can't imagine that he'd be on board with any of this though... I personally think he'd be shocked at what's happened to the Democratic party. To America really.

Well, if we were to build a time machine and send someone from 1980 to 2024, the shock of change would be excessive. Both parties have gotten more polarized. However, as change happens over years, then, people get slowly used to the ever increasing divide, without even noticing anything. Subtle manipulation by both parties and lobbyists have lead to the massive divide we have now in 2024.

 

[BPPLEE]

The Southern Poverty Law centre lists the American College of Pediatricians as an extreme hate group masquerading as a legitimate medical association:

The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a fringe anti-LGBTQ hate group that masquerades as the premier U.S. association of pediatricians to push anti-LGBTQ junk science, primarily via far-right conservative media and filing amicus briefs in cases related to gay adoption and marriage equality.​

​

ACPeds opposes adoption by LGBTQ couples, links homosexuality to pedophilia, endorses so-called reparative or sexual orientation conversion therapy for homosexual youth, believes transgender people have a mental illness and has called transgender health care for youth child abuse.​

American College of Pediatricians

The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a fringe anti-LGBTQ hate group that masquerades as the premier U.S. association of pediatricians to push anti-LGBTQ junk science, primarily via far-right conservative media and filing amicus briefs in cases related to gay adoption and marriage...

www.splcenter.org

OB

The SPLC probably lists the RNC as a hate group

 

[AlexB23]

Sounds like the old "Drag Queens can turn kids gay by reading to them" canard.

Drag queen story hour normalizes drag, and then kids might experiment with it. After experimentation, then they might get pushed into doing trans stuff. Yes, I like purple, but I would never wear a purple dress as a guy. So, we must be careful of exposing kids to drag.

However, a different type of canard can increase lift, and increase drag, of the aerodynamic variety.

The canards are the small wings near the nose of this plane.

 

[BCP1928]

Drag queen story hour normalizes drag, and then kids might experiment with it. After experimentation, then they might get pushed into doing trans stuff. Yes, I like purple, but I would never wear a purple dress as a guy. So, we must be careful of exposing kids to drag.

No, gay doesn't lead to trans. Some trans people are gay, some are not. But do you think someone can become gay by experimenting with it?

However, a different type of canard can increase lift, and increase drag, of the aerodynamic variety.

The canards are the small wings near the nose of this plane.
View attachment 350402

LOL!

 

[AlexB23]

No, gay doesn't lead to trans. Some trans people are gay, some are not. But do you think someone can become gay by experimenting with it?

LOL!

Well, I am a Christian bi guy, and have realized since my teenage years (who has chosen to remain celibate, unless married to a woman), so I can not tell you from my own experience. However, some gay tendencies can be increased via grooming, which is exactly what happened to me 8 years ago. In 2015-2017 at ages 15-17, I have had bad experiences online on a global pen pal website which I quit in 2017, where gay folks were grooming me, and trying to get me to have dirty conversations with. These folks knew exactly which buttons to press, and turn me on.



And yes, I had to do some humor about aircraft canards, cos it is good to brighten up someone's day.