Humans are not self-aware

[timewerx]

Now, to the question.

What is the test for awareness? What is the evidence that one is "aware"?

You probably can't unless you know everything.... Not a bad goal to make in life.

But you can determine lack of self-awareness if a person's ability to evaluate themselves is based on the same template use by everyone else that is being reinforced by others above them.

Their consciousness is not their own but artificial. They conduct themself in no different manner than a computer. The responses are programmed and highly predictable.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Is being aware or self aware just another term for "woke"?

No, 'woke' is being aware of social injustice issues - now often used as a sarcastic or perjorative term for social justice warriors who lack self-awareness.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

No, 'woke' is being aware of social injustice issues - now often used as a sarcastic or perjorative term for social justice warriors who lack self-awareness.

This pertains to the world/environment and is outside of oneself.

 

[timewerx]

This pertains to the world/environment and is outside of oneself.

Collective lack of self-awareness will eventually have a strong influence upon the world/environment.

A lot of things are connected in ways that is both incredible and horrifying. It's mentioned in the Bible and taught by Christ to the disciples. Not every detail is written in the Bible though.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Collective lack of self-awareness will eventually have a strong influence upon the world/environment.

A lot of things are connected in ways that is both incredible and horrifying. It's mentioned in the Bible and taught by Christ to the disciples. Not every detail is written in the Bible though.

Yes, but he said "woke" has to do with awareness of social injustice. And that it's advocates are not self aware. While this is true, it confirms that humans look outside of their own selves without discerning their need for their own awakening.
Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

[timewerx]

Yes, but he said "woke" has to do with awareness of social injustice. And that it's advocates are not self aware. While this is true, it confirms that humans look outside of their own selves without discerning their need for their own awakening.
Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

It is called hypocrisy of if anyone speaks against social injustice but participants themselves to social injustice.

I don't think he meant all of them. Only some advocates are blind to their own issues concerning social injustices.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This pertains to the world/environment and is outside of oneself.

Yes, so it's not really self-awareness.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes, but he said "woke" has to do with awareness of social injustice. And that it's advocates are not self aware.

No, I said that it is often used pejoratively of those who lack (or appear to lack) of self-awareness, e.g. those who unthinkingly jump on bandwagons and into group-think because they think it's cool or zeitgeisty (is that a word? it should be!).

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

No, I said that it is often used pejoratively of those who lack (or appear to lack) of self-awareness, e.g. those who unthinkingly jump on bandwagons and into group-think because they think it's cool or zeitgeisty (is that a word? it should be!).

Thank you for clarifying that for me. The key word here is "unthinkingly". It is amazing imho how prevalent that is in all of us.Have you ever thought about how much we/you do without thinking?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Thank you for clarifying that for me. The key word here is "unthinkingly". It is amazing imho how prevalent that is in all of us.Have you ever thought about how much we/you do without thinking?

No

But seriously, yes, I have an abiding interest in brain function, particularly with respect to conscious and unconscious thought (I assume by 'unthinkingly' you mean without conscious thought). The issue here is that conscious thought is relatively slow, effortful, and sequential, taking up a lot of resources and attention - which is why, even during conscious thought, a lot of the work is delegated to the unconscious, which is fast, effortless, and highly parallel (i.e. lots of things going on at the same time), which is why it can pop words into your head as you're speaking, and give you unexpected insights, associations, and 'aha!' moments, as well as running your day-to-day life.

Neuroscientists typically estimate that conscious activity accounts for only about 5% on brain activity - if that.

I'm frequently aware of how much of my daily activity is handled by hierarchies of autonomous 'subroutines', how their activity is monitored by other processes that compare the results of their activities with expectations (from context & habit), and how those monitors grab my focus of attention when they spot a mismatch so that my conscious awareness (the 'executive') is brought to bear on a potential problem.

A typical example of this is when I'm cooking and thinking about other things when I go to put the olive oil away and find myself holding the fridge door open and about to put the olive oil in the fridge. The 'put bottle away' subroutine has picked the fridge because that's where bottles usually go (milk, etc). The monitor has spotted the mismatch between the open fridge and olive oil (it's usually open fridge and milk) and alerted my focus of attention so I can fix the problem (roll eyes, tut, shut the fridge, and put the olive oil in the cupboard).

Another popular instance is driving off in the direction of work when going on a weekend trip somewhere else.

Brain deterioration (old age, dementia, etc.) degrades according to complexity and sophistication, so the subroutines are less affected than the monitors which are less affected than the executive. So context errors may not be spotted, and if they are, they're referred to an impaired executive which may be confused or unable to handle the situation.

An excellent introduction to the conscious and unconscious activity of the brain is Daniel Khaneman's 'Thinking, Fast and Slow', which is a real eye-opener and has lots of examples and things to try out for yourself.

 

[timewerx]

No, I said that it is often used pejoratively of those who lack (or appear to lack) of self-awareness, e.g. those who unthinkingly jump on bandwagons and into group-think because they think it's cool or zeitgeisty (is that a word? it should be!).

I had the same problem when I first became a Christian. Ever since 2012, I've been re-evaluating my beliefs.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

No

But seriously, yes, I have an abiding interest in brain function, particularly with respect to conscious and unconscious thought (I assume by 'unthinkingly' you mean without conscious thought). The issue here is that conscious thought is relatively slow, effortful, and sequential, taking up a lot of resources and attention - which is why, even during conscious thought, a lot of the work is delegated to the unconscious, which is fast, effortless, and highly parallel (i.e. lots of things going on at the same time), which is why it can pop words into your head as you're speaking, and give you unexpected insights, associations, and 'aha!' moments, as well as running your day-to-day life.

at your no. And , yes I meant without conscious thought . It is amazing. We are fearfully and wonderfully made

I'm frequently aware of how much of my daily activity is handled by hierarchies of autonomous 'subroutines', how their activity is monitored by other processes that compare the results of their activities with expectations (from context & habit), and how those monitors grab my focus of attention when they spot a mismatch so that my conscious awareness (the 'executive') is brought to bear on a potential problem.

Umm hmm, the body becomes the mind. I like your title "the executive" for the conscious mind.

An excellent introduction to the conscious and unconscious activity of the brain is Daniel Khaneman's 'Thinking, Fast and Slow', which is a real eye-opener and has lots of examples and things to try out for yourself.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check that out.
.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I had the same problem when I first became a Christian. Ever since 2012, I've been re-evaluating my beliefs.

By having the same problem, do you mean lacking self-awareness or being accused of it?

I try to avoid espousing explicit beliefs - I prefer a more Bayesian approach where I assign credence according to my current judgement of the evidence or plausibility, and update that credence as new evidence comes in. In this way re-evaluation is on-going, and resistance to change is less due to emotional investment - that's the aspiration, anyhow!

 

[timewerx]

By having the same problem, do you mean lacking self-awareness or being accused of it?

No one told me but a chain of events, led me to see holes in the things I used to believe.

Don't get me wrong, Jesus is still my Messiah but I regard and understand Him a lot differently now.

No longer under the boxed view of religious dogmas under the factual premise that no person is infallible. I have yet to see proof of any person that ever lived that is infallible in their understanding, Christian or not. NOBODY.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I have yet to see proof of any person that ever lived that is infallible in their understanding, Christian or not. NOBODY.

That is the reason our Heavenly Father sent Lord Jesus. He is the ONLY infallible human that ever lived.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No one told me but a chain of events, led me to see holes in the things I used to believe.

Don't get me wrong, Jesus is still my Messiah but I regard and understand Him a lot differently now.

OK.

No longer under the boxed view of religious dogmas under the factual premise that no person is infallible. I have yet to see proof of any person that ever lived that is infallible in their understanding, Christian or not. NOBODY.

How could it be proved? what would such a proof look like? Who could judge it?

 

[timewerx]

OK.


How could it be proved? what would such a proof look like? Who could judge it?

You probably can't but you can see those who are making an effort towards it.

They keep an open mind that reality may not be what it seems or what we have been taught about it. Reality in everything like religion, economy, politics, industry, life itself.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I get everything you are saying. But, who cares?

The ability to care comes with awareness, and awareness is a responsibility - because you cant force your reality to be a delusion (otherwise you aren't aware). So, if the world is really hell (as an example), awareness requires you to recognize that fully, not pretend it is something else. Very few people can recognize this despite the overwhelming evidence (not necessarily that this is hell, but it is at least an extreme separation from the Most High).

And, that is just awareness.


People can still be manipulative, lying, evil and predatory despite having awareness - these are powers, principalities and archons, but also "humans" that masquerade as humane, but are really predatory. They exploit the rest of us who are ignorant, and quite enjoy "playing" with the aware and self aware (because they are heavily outnumbered).

You know very few people are actually self-aware, meaning they are not only aware but they also recognize they have a specific purpose. I am not talking about a delusion, or delusion of grandeur... I am talking about providence from the Most High. So, just make sure not to waste your words if you know you are self-aware, because we have already been told that the vast majority of us will never be aware, let alone self aware.

Salvation through Jesus Christ turns the lights on and brings conflict within and without. Most people are not openly hostile to God and the painful self-awareness He brings, but they are hostile. "It burns, it burnnnnnns!" How often have I seen a friendly face turn cold when Jesus Christ and his Word are brought in (I’m not mean in person like I seem on forums, lol, so it’s not because I screamed it at them!) Like C.S. Lewis wrote somewhere, "Christianity is that intruder into a conversation that was getting along famously well without it".

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life...and every other way is NOT! Our body of truth will never be popular, and few wish the kind of knowing-pain only a Believer can know.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You probably can't but you can see those who are making an effort towards it.

They keep an open mind that reality may not be what it seems or what we have been taught about it. Reality in everything like religion, economy, politics, industry, life itself.

Infallibility is keeping an open mind? I don't think so - what you describe is scepticism.

It seems to me that infallibility means not needing an open mind - if you know with absolute certainty, there's nothing to keep an open mind about.

OTOH, perhaps we're using different definitions of those terms and talking at cross-purposes.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

It seems to me that infallibility means not needing an open mind - if you know with absolute certainty, there's nothing to keep an open mind about.

Yes, I agree.Being certain is faith.It is knowing deep within.Intimately. No doubting. Think again about Peter walking on water.