Human Evolution

[Jro]

I don't think you know what a genetic bottleneck is.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear DogmaHunter, That doesn't work with Humans since the last time this happened was some 60k years ago.

Wiki:>>[5] Research on many genes finds different coalescence points from 2 million years ago to 60,000 years ago when different genes are considered, thus disproving the existence of more recent extreme bottlenecks (i.e., a single breeding pair).[3][
Geneticists cannot distinguish between the sons of God (prehistoric people) and Humans. Humans arrived on this Planet some 10k years ago, and NO population bottlenecks in Humans have been observed that close to modern times. You're at least 50k years off. This refutes YOUR idea that there was a Human population bottleneck, Scientifically, when Noah arrived.


I see. Now, you can tell what my response will be BEFORE I post it. Are you also a mind reader? If so, don't give up your day job, since my reply is NOT to slam genetics, but the timeline of your "supposed" idea that there was a Human population bottleneck when Noah arrived. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

You are wrong, the Holocaust was a bottle neck. A bottle neck is where significant, sudden drops in the population greatly limit genetic diversity. Even after the holocaust, many Jewish people still married other Jewish people, and, because of the holocaust in part, is the reason why certain genetic conditions such as Tay Sachs disease are almost exclusively seen in people with a Jewish heritage.

 

[Aman777]

That's part and parcel of the flood myth - if you only preserve two individuals from each species, you're going to destroy genetic variation. If you destroy genetic variation, well…

Dear Readers, The above demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the Flood. God doesn't tell us that Noah brought 2 of every creature with him, and that is what populated our Planet. There were many, many, prehistoric people already here to diversify the population when Noah arrived, and plenty of animals to help populate our Earth with the kinds Jesus made with His own Hands.

The problem is that the traditional relgious view of ancient men is WRONG, and cannot be supported Scripturally. This has given rise to the atheistic view that God's Holy Word is not True. This is shown on this board daily, even with some Christians. Compromising God's Holy Word, by some, doesn't help either. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Jro]

Dear Readers, The above demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the Flood. God doesn't tell us that Noah brought 2 of every creature with him, and that is what populated our Planet. There were many, many, prehistoric people already here to diversify the population when Noah arrived, and plenty of animals to help populate our Earth with the kinds Jesus made with His own Hands.

The problem is that the traditional relgious views of ancient men is WRONG, and cannot be supported Scripturally. This has given rise to the atheistic view that God's Holy Word is not True. This is shown on this board daily, even with some Christians. Compromising God's Holy Word, by some, doesn't help either. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Seems like this holy understanding only arose after the old one started to be dismantled.

 

[Aman777]

Seems like this holy understanding only arose after the old one started to be dismantled.

Dear Jro, Another misunderstanding. This understanding comes by comparing what is actually written in Genesis with the latest Scientific and Historic Facts. Instead of learning, many here are interested only in trying to prove that they know more than God.

The "old one", as you put it, is STILL God's Truth. The only difference is that when you study the False ideas of men, who lived thousands of years before Science, it confuses those who reject God's Truth and THINK that they know everything. Lucifer thought the SAME. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear Readers, The above demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the Flood. God doesn't tell us that Noah brought 2 of every creature with him, and that is what populated our Planet. There were many, many, prehistoric people already here to diversify the population when Noah arrived, and plenty of animals to help populate our Earth with the kinds Jesus made with His own Hands.

The problem is that the traditional relgious view of ancient men is WRONG, and cannot be supported Scripturally. This has given rise to the atheistic view that God's Holy Word is not True. This is shown on this board daily, even with some Christians. Compromising God's Holy Word, by some, doesn't help either. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Who supposedly survived the global flood besides Noah and his family? Sure, you are correct, some animals he took 7 of each, but in most species that are multicellular, there is a minimum number of individuals needed to establish a stable and healthy population. In humans, that number is about 50. In some animals it is lower, while in others it is higher, but for most 2 would be too low.

The only animal known to date to have the genetic variation expected of a species that was propagated by only two individuals in recent history is the cheetah. Members of that one species are so genetically similar that any random cheetah could donate an organ or tissue to any other random cheetah.

It is believed that an extremely severe bottleneck event is the cause for the extreme lack of variation amongst cheetahs, with people going as far to say that 1 female a thousand or so years ago is essentially the distant ancestor of all cheetahs alive today.

Unfortunately, cheetahs are especially susceptible to disease wiping them all out, because if a disease kills one initially healthy cheetah, there will not be a single member of the species naturally immune to it. However, cheetahs are the only animal with this kind of extreme like that, proving that if there was a limiting event such as Noah's ark that genetic diversity wouldn't have been able to reestablish itself in many animal populations by modern times.

Also, your so called prehistoric man being different than Noah's family is illogical, especially if you consider Noah to be the human and the prehistoric peoples to be something else. By modern times, the genes contributed by Noah would have pretty much died out just because of a difference between the humans and these so called prehistoric peoples (Cro Magnons?).

 

[Nithavela]

Impressive that this holy understanding only arose in one random forum poster.

Sarah: Aman believes that Noah came from another planet and sailed here after that other planet was destroyed in a flood. He brought all this stuff from that other planet over to our planet, where there already were humanlike beings (the sons of God) just waiting to breed with Noah and his folk. Also, Noah brought all the technology from his old planet, like architecture and stuff. Before that, the sons of god weren't even able to use a fire.

Right, Aman?

 

[Aman777]

You are wrong, the Holocaust was a bottle neck. A bottle neck is where significant, sudden drops in the population greatly limit genetic diversity. Even after the holocaust, many Jewish people still married other Jewish people, and, because of the holocaust in part, is the reason why certain genetic conditions such as Tay Sachs disease are almost exclusively seen in people with a Jewish heritage.

Dear PS, It's not me since I didn't write it. Click on the links I bolded and enlarged and it will tell you the scientist who wrote this, and it wasn't me. I think you will find it really interesting to discover the Author. I was surprised too. Take it up with him. God Bless you.

Wiki:>>[5] Research on many genes finds different coalescence points from 2 million years ago to 60,000 years ago when different genes are considered, thus disproving the existence of more recent extreme bottlenecks (i.e., a single breeding pair).[3][

In Love,
Aman

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear Jro, Another misunderstanding. This understanding comes by comparing what is actually written in Genesis with the latest Scientific and Historic Facts. Instead of learning, many here are interested only in trying to prove that they know more than God.

The "old one", as you put it, is STILL God's Truth. The only difference is that when you study the False ideas of men, who lived thousands of years before Science, it confuses those who reject God's Truth and THINK that they know everything. Lucifer thought the SAME. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

I have a test for you, Aman, just curious to see your answers. I know the answers myself, don't worry, I just want to see what you think.

1. Are Lucifer and Satan the same being?

2. If not, which tempted Eve with the forbidden fruit, if either did.

3. How many angels are named in the bible?

4. Are demons and fallen angels the same thing?

5. Can the information about hell given in the bible fit easily within two sentences?

Feel free to answer them, or not, but I do ask for the sake of fairness that you don't just look them up. I want to see what you readily know.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear PS, It's not me since I didn't write it. Click on the links I bolded and enlarged and it will tell you the scientist who wrote this, and it wasn't me. I think you will find it really interesting to discover the Author. I was surprised too. Take it up with him. God Bless you.

Wiki:>>[5] Research on many genes finds different coalescence points from 2 million years ago to 60,000 years ago when different genes are considered, thus disproving the existence of more recent extreme bottlenecks (i.e., a single breeding pair).[3][

In Love,
Aman

A bottleneck is a significant reduction in the population, but it doesn't have to be to the extent of only 2 viable individuals to qualify as a bottleneck. Also, I am familiar with why that kind of extreme bottleneck is not likely to have happened in recent history, that is kind of the point. Also, if other people and animals survived the flood somehow, then why did Noah have to collect all those animals and be shut up with them that whole time?

 

[Nithavela]

Because he brought them as samples from his old planet, which was destroyed, to ours.

 

[Chany]

Because he brought them as samples from his old planet, which was destroyed, to ours.

You have to admit, it is witty. It explains why dinosaurs and other ancient animals are extinct. It still has so many problems and is unscientifically provable, but it's a bit better than having every single animal on an ark.

 

[Nithavela]

If I had a few weeks time to create a completely new mythology to reconcile the bible with science, I'm sure I could think of something nifty, too. I, for one, would use more spaceships. And all the weird stuff in the bible? Those are remnants of the fantastic technology of the other planet. Like that weapon of mass destruction that destroyed Sodom, or shoes to walk on water.

 

[Aman777]

Impressive that this holy understanding only arose in one random forum poster.

Sarah: Aman believes that Noah came from another planet and sailed here after that other planet was destroyed in a flood. He brought all this stuff from that other planet over to our planet, where there already were humanlike beings (the sons of God) just waiting to breed with Noah and his folk. Also, Noah brought all the technology from his old planet, like architecture and stuff. Before that, the sons of god weren't even able to use a fire.

Right, Aman?

Dear Sarah, Close but Not quite. The first Heaven, which was much smaller than our Cosmos, was in Lake Van, the largest Lake in Turkey. Some 10k years ago, the entire Biosphere, which contained Adam's world, was totally destroyed in the Flood, exactly as God told us.

The firmament SANK in the Lake, and released the Ark into our Biosphere. When Noah arrived here, he planted himself something to eat in the valleys just south of Lake Van. Noah's grandsons, like Cain on Adam's Earth, had NO other Human to marry. Cush, one of Noah's grandsons, married one of the prehistoric women who evolved from the common ancestor of Apes and that child grew up and built the FIRST Human city on this Planet.

Human civilization, on this Earth, began. There were NO Humans (descendants of Adam) on our Earth who EVER grew a crop, built a City, nor had ANY of the traits of modern Humans, until Noah arrived and brought the unique Human intelligence of Adam here. Adam was made long BEFORE any other creature and had the superior intelligence which ONLY God, Adam, and Adam's descendants have. Genesis 3:22

Below is the historic evidence which confirms God's Truth. It also gives dates and shows where the earliest Human ciites were built. Genesis 10:10-11 names these first cities and History records that they are the first Human cities on this Earth.

Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

The area where Noah arrived is also called the Cradle of Human civilization, and is in Northern Mesopotamia, between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. That's God's Truth. IF you don't believe it, then show us an OLDER Human city built BEFORE Noah arrived. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[PsychoSarah]

Dear Sarah, Close but Not quite. The first Heaven, which was much smaller than our Cosmos, was in Lake Van, the largest Lake in Turkey. Some 10k years ago, the entire Biosphere, which contained Adam's world, was totally destroyed in the Flood, exactly as God told us.

The firmament SANK in the Lake, and released the Ark into our Biosphere. When Noah arrived here, he planted himself something to eat in the valleys just south of Lake Van. Noah's grandsons, like Cain on Adam's Earth, had NO other Human to marry. Cush, one of Noah's grandsons, married one of the prehistoric women who evolved from the common ancestor of Apes and that child grew up and built the FIRST Human city on this Planet.

Human civilization, on this Earth, began. There were NO Humans (descendants of Adam) on our Earth who EVER grew a crop, built a City, nor had ANY of the traits of modern Humans, until Noah arrived and brought the unique Human intelligence of Adam here. Adam was made long BEFORE any other creature and had the superior intelligence which ONLY God, Adam, and Adam's descendants have. Genesis 3:22

Below is the historic evidence which confirms God's Truth. It also gives dates and shows where the earliest Human ciites were built. Genesis 10:10-11 names these first cities and History records that they are the first Human cities on this Earth.

Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

The area where Noah arrived is also called the Cradle of Human civilization, and is in Northern Mesopotamia, between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. That's God's Truth. IF you don't believe it, then show us an OLDER Human city built BEFORE Noah arrived. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

You do realize that by your own beliefs, modern humans and Noah are not the same species, right? Because there we're definitely more people existing that were not related to him than those that were. Even if it were only 1000 years, by this point there would be very few, if any, significant genes from an "actual" human in modern humans, which means pretty much evolution is why we are intelligent, because no genes from Noah would remain by this point.

I can show you human dwellings that are more than 20k years old, but whether or not I could show you a city older than 10k years depends on what you define as a city, because an ancient city would not have had the population of even most modern towns.

 

[lasthero]

everal of the textbooks continued to incorrectly promote the debunked Miller-Urey origin of life experiment, the long-discredited claims about nonfunctional appendix and tonsils, and the fraudulent embryo drawings from Ernst Haeckel.

Couple things, here.

The Miller-Urey experiment was never 'debunked'.

If it's talking about vestigial organs, it's getting the definition wrong. The appendix IS a vestigial organ, but vestigial does not mean 'nonfunctional'.

And while the Haeckel drawings are an exaggeration, they're not nearly as far off as creationists like to imagine.

 

[Aman777]

I have a test for you, Aman, just curious to see your answers. I know the answers myself, don't worry, I just want to see what you think.

1. Are Lucifer and Satan the same being? YES

2. If not, which tempted Eve with the forbidden fruit, if either did. SAME

3. How many angels are named in the bible? I have NO idea

4. Are demons and fallen angels the same thing? NO Fallen Angels are in prison under the darkness. Jud 1:6

5. Can the information about hell given in the bible fit easily within two sentences? NO Jesus told us more about Hell than anyone else

Feel free to answer them, or not, but I do ask for the sake of fairness that you don't just look them up. I want to see what you readily know.

Sorry, but I looked up Jude 1:6 in order to provide a link, before I got to your request. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Loudmouth]

Below is the historic evidence which confirms God's Truth. It also gives dates and shows where the earliest Human ciites were built.

Dating a city in no way confirms what the Bible claims. Finding London does not confirm that Harry Potter was a real person. Finding evidence of lumbering in the upper Midwest of the US does not confirm the existence of Paul Bunyan. You have been told this before, and yet you remain unphased.

 

[Aman777]

You do realize that by your own beliefs, modern humans and Noah are not the same species, right? Because there we're definitely more people existing that were not related to him than those that were. Even if it were only 1000 years, by this point there would be very few, if any, significant genes from an "actual" human in modern humans, which means pretty much evolution is why we are intelligent, because no genes from Noah would remain by this point.

Dear PS, Both Humans AND the sons of God (have the SAME Creator), thus are able to produce children with each other. Read Genesis 6:1-4 and you will find verification for my view. Remember also, that ancient men (which some believe wrote the Bible) had NO reason and NO knowledge of HOW today's Humans inherited the DNA and ERVs of people who evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. ONLY God knew.

I can show you human dwellings that are more than 20k years old, but whether or not I could show you a city older than 10k years depends on what you define as a city, because an ancient city would not have had the population of even most modern towns.

True. I call them cities since that's what God calls them. The dwellings built BEFORE Noah arrived were built by the sons of God and are NOT Human cities and are NOT recognized as such by Secular History, which agrees with Genesis 10:10-11. That is WHY I post the Map of the Fertile Crescent, where the FIRST Human farming, which lead to Human city building, began. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Nithavela]

I don't think I ever saw the true scotsman fallacy applied to architecture, before.