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Human Evolution

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selfinflikted

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First law states that matter and energy can't be created or destroyed, nothing new has been created, only at creation week.

Well, it surely doesn't say anything about "creation week." And do you know how I know you don't know what you're talking about here? Because the sun. What does that mean? The earth is not a closed system. Do you understand the implication?

Come on, no insults man. At worst, attack the belief, not the believer.

I'm sorry that telling someone they are ignorant is now seen as an insult. And guess what? I was right. She has no idea what she's talking about.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I'm sorry that telling someone they are ignorant is now seen as an insult. And guess what? I was right. She has no idea what she's talking about.

The only thing you manage to accomplish with it is making her feel bad and less likely to listen to you.

It isn't productive to insult the person you are attempting to appeal to (appeal as in convince of a idea, not make her like you).
 
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selfinflikted

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The only thing you manage to accomplish with it is making her feel bad and less likely to listen to you.

It isn't productive to insult the person you are attempting to appeal to (appeal as in convince of a idea, not make her like you).

No, it isn't productive. But she's not here to listen. She's stated as much, as if her own posts weren't evidence enough of that anyway.
 
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PsychoSarah

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No, it isn't productive. But she's not here to listen. She's stated as much, as if her own posts weren't evidence enough of that anyway.

If for no other reason, it makes her look justified in not listening.

Trust me, killing people with kindness makes you look better than screaming verbal daggers.
 
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lasthero

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The only thing you manage to accomplish with it is making her feel bad and less likely to listen to you.

It isn't productive to insult the person you are attempting to appeal to (appeal as in convince of a idea, not make her like you).

Anya isn't open to being convinced. She already knows she's right.
 
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selfinflikted

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If for no other reason, it makes her look justified in not listening.

Trust me, killing people with kindness makes you look better than screaming verbal daggers.

You know, you're right.

I'm sorry for being a condescending jerk, Anya. :thumbsup:

ETA: My points still stand, though.
 
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46AND2

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•Evolution is contrary to natural laws (without exception) whereas creation is consistent with natural laws—for example, creation is consistent with the laws of thermodynamics and law of biogenesis.

Are you kidding me? Creationism is ALL ABOUT the contradiction of natural laws. God HIMSELF is not bound by natural laws. Your very doctrine is all about how God defies natural laws. This is an incredibly poor argument.

Not to mention the fact that evolution is NOT contrary to the laws of thermodynamics.


•There are no known biological processes for evolution to higher levels of organization and complexity—mutations are overwhelmingly degenerative and none are “uphill” (that is, unequivocally beneficial) in the sense of adding new genetic information to the gene pool.

There are none known, or you just don't know what they are? They exist.

Mutations are not overwhelmingly degenerative. They are overwhelmingly NEUTRAL. A small percentage are degenerative, and a small percentage are beneficial.

Gene duplication and subsequent mutation, adds new information to the gene pool. This is inescapable for any reasonable definition of "information."


•Geologic landforms and sedimentary features are completely consistent with a worldwide flood as described in the Book of Genesis.

No they aren't. How are igneous rock layers laid down between layers of sediment by the flood? How does the flood sort rock layers by accumulation of radioactive decay--i.e. sequentially more radioactive decay in the rocks the deeper you go?


•Enormous limestone formations, huge coal and oil formations, and immense underground salt layers are indicative of a worldwide flood—not slow and gradual processes over billions of years. Such features are satisfactorily explained by a worldwide flood and known geophysical and geochemical processes.

How are they indicative of a worldwide flood? And how are they NOT indicative of deep time?


•A worldwide flood as described in Genesis 6–8 is within the boundaries of known geophysics—see phase diagram in chapter 4 and Pangaea Flood Video at CreationScienceToday.com.

No it isn't You've been a bit wish-washy about whether there were mountains before the flood or not.

If there were no mountains, then the flood model is NOT within the boundaries of known geophysics, as rapid mountain growth is not consistent with known geophysics.

If there WERE mountains before the flood, there is no known mechanism to cover the entire earth with water. There is not enough water...and even if there was enough water, there is no known mechanism to flood and recede over the earth.

The flood, most certainly is NOT consistent with KNOWN geophysics. This is a false claim.


•There is no credible technique for establishing the age of sedimentary rock—fossil dating used to establish the age of sedimentary rock suffers from circular reasoning and guesswork, all based on the assumption of evolution.

No it does not rely on circular reasoning. Ther IS a credible technique for dating igneous rock. If you date the igneous rock above a sediment layer to 1 million years, and you date igneous rock below that sediment layer to 2 million years, then you know that the sediment layer must have been deposited SOME TIME between 1 million and 2 million years ago.

See, no circular reasoning.


•The standard geologic column with transitional creatures evolving toward more complex forms, as depicted in most science textbooks, is utterly fictitious and misleading, and does not represent the real world. In reality, it perfectly represents the aftermath of a worldwide flood.

Wow. Bold claim. Too bad you can't back it up.


•There are no transitional fossils or living forms—there is not one single example of evolution! Evolutionists look for “the” missing link—ironically, they are in desperate search for just one! But there should be billions of examples of transitional forms with transitional structures if evolution were true, but there are none. The bottom line, evolution has never been observed within fossils or living populations.

*sigh* Evolutionists don't look for any missing link. We have plenty. Creationists are the ones looking for a missing link, yet they will never describe what this missing link should look like. The reason they don't describe this missing link, is for fear that we give them examples of exactly what they are looking for.


•Contrary to popular belief, evidence indicates that early man was intelligent and highly skilled with an advanced social structure. There is also evidence suggesting their belief in the existence of an afterlife.

So?


•Soft tissues and traces of blood cells have been found in dinosaur fossils supposedly 70 to 250 million years old. (Soft tissues and red blood cells have relatively short life spans.)

So we have some highly preserved specimens, so what? Do you know WHY they have relatively short life spans? Because they decay. Do you know why they decay? Bacteria consume them. So what would happen if the conditions severely limited the access of bacteria to these tissues and blood cells? They'd last longer, right?


•Carbon-14 has been found in coal and diamonds supposedly hundreds of millions of years old. (C-14 has a relatively short life-span.)

No it hasn't. If you'd like to discuss a particular instance, I can show you exactly why your claim is not true.


•Radioisotope dating suffers from multiple unprovable assumptions—the technique is “fatally flawed”—yet scientists contend as fact what they cannot prove.

Wrong. I have offered to teach you how scientists do not make the assumptions you claim they do...twice...you ignored me both times. I started a new topic, anyway...feel free to drop by...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7804268/


•Abundant daughter isotopes are indicative of accelerated nuclear decay associated with creation (expansion, stretching out, or acceleration of the universe from an extremely hot, dense phase when matter and energy were concentrated) and a worldwide flood with massive restructuring of the earth’s lithosphere, not slow and gradual processes over billions of years.

Accelerated nuclear decay necessary to account for a young earth would heat the entire planet to sludge that would remain to this day.

Additionally, it would cause so much radiation, that no life could exist on earth.

The creationist organization who set out to prove accelerated decay, the so-called R.A.T.E. team admitted that they could not overcome these problems.

•Evidences of accelerated nuclear decay in igneous rocks found worldwide are helium in zircon crystals, radiohalos and fission tracks, and rapid magnetic field reversals and decay.

See above.

Additionally, check out my topic on uranium radiohalos:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7803853/

It shows that the nuclear decay HAD to have been consistent over the last couple hundred million years, because if it wasn't then the halos would be different diameters, since the decay rate is inversely related to alpha particle decay energy, which is what determines the halo diameter.


•Over a hundred geochronometers indicate a young earth and universe.
Creation Science Today - Scientific evidence for creation

And they are ALL flawed, because they don't take into proper account the addition or subtraction of whatever it is they are measuring.

For example, if you use the same methods with aluminum content in the ocean, the earth would be only 100 years old.

Additionally, it is quite amusing that creationists will use these uniformitarian type arguments, and then turn around and claim that we can't know that conditions were the same when arguing against old earth geochronometers.
 
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bhsmte

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The only thing you manage to accomplish with it is making her feel bad and less likely to listen to you.

It isn't productive to insult the person you are attempting to appeal to (appeal as in convince of a idea, not make her like you).

She isn't being the least productive either.

Constant contradictions in her posts and she is all over the map and is clearly grasping for straws.

She says she wants to learn and then states in the same breath; I know the truth and evolution is a lie, the bible is truth and oh by the way, she says she has studied the evidence and then later says, she doesn't have time to study the evidence.

Clearly, this is a case of; anything that goes against a literal interpretation of the bible is to be discarded. So, pretend you are trying to learn and then show you have no desire to learn.

It would be best for her to stick to the bible and steer clear of science, which will only cause her stress from dissonance.
 
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PsychoSarah

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She isn't being the least productive either.

Constant contradictions in her posts and she is all over the map and is clearly grasping for straws.

She says she wants to learn and then states in the same breath; I know the truth and evolution is a lie, the bible is truth and oh by the way, she says she has studied the evidence and then later says, she doesn't have time to study the evidence.

Clearly, this is a case of; anything that goes against a literal interpretation of the bible is to be discarded. So, pretend you are trying to learn and then show you have no desire to learn.

It would be best for her to stick to the bible and steer clear of science, which will only cause her stress from dissonance.

Even when faced with the worst of people (not saying that Anya is), it doesn't mean you must become one of them.
 
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bhsmte

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Even when faced with the worst of people (not saying that Anya is), it doesn't mean you must become one of them.

I have no idea where you get that from, I am simply stating what is obvious and everyone sees it, so why play games?

If she wants to learn, it is up to her. She has been deluged with information about evolution and she hand waves it all away saying it is all a lie, but she doesn't have time to study it and she also said she doesn't understand it.

Give me a break, she has chosen her path and if she does learn, it is clear it won't be here, it will need to be on her own time and in her own place, if that ever occurs.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I have no idea where you get that from, I am simply stating what is obvious and everyone sees it, so why play games?

If she wants to learn, it is up to her. She has been deluged with information about evolution and she hand waves it all away saying it is all a lie, but she doesn't have time to study it and she also said she doesn't understand it.

Give me a break, she has chosen her path and if she does learn, it is clear it won't be here, it will need to be on her own time and in her own place, if that ever occurs.

Then rather than let her get to you, ignore her.
 
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biggles53

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I don't think you guys realize that EVOLUTION is a belief and SCIENCE is science!

MICROEVOLUTION is OBSERVABLE and it has shown that the species stay in their species!

MACROEVOLUTION is NOT OBSERVABLE and has NOT shown species changing into COMPLETELY NEW species! It is unscientific and has no grounds for it!


!

Completely untrue....why do you feel it necessary to peddle lies for your religion...?

We have over 100 examples of speciation which we have observed in action, both in the field and in the lab.....and that's just in the course of the last generation or so...

Now...tell us again about how you're sincerely here to LEARN...!!
 
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biggles53

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Then rather than let her get to you, ignore her.

For a couple of very good reasons...

1. Bad ideas need to be put down......hard..!

2. More importantly, there are many people who 'lurk' on the sidelines to these threads. These people can be reached out to and influenced....their minds are not totally closed to learning as people like Anya's are....so, when we take the time to combat Anya's loopy claims, we are potentially doing those people some service...
 
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PsychoSarah

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For a couple of very good reasons...

1. Bad ideas need to be put down......hard..!

2. More importantly, there are many people who 'lurk' on the sidelines to these threads. These people can be reached out to and influenced....their minds are not totally closed to learning as people like Anya's are....so, when we take the time to combat Anya's loopy claims, we are potentially doing those people some service...

Until you insult her and make yourselves look bad.
 
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biggles53

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Anya,

Since you're so knowledgeable about the subject, perhaps you can explain a few things to us...

Why do humans have the 3 genes necessary for the production of yolk present in their genome...?

Why do we have erector pilae muscles which cause gooseflesh when we're cold or scared...?

Why does a developing human fetus grow a thick coat of fur at about the 6 month mark, only to then lose it all in the remaining months of gestation...?
 
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