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peaceinislam
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He said he cannot prove it just as you cannot prove that all Nazis were Protestant Christians.
He also had a good point. Islamic terrorist kill in the name of Islam and Allah. Nazis did not kill in the name of Christianity. You really can't make an accurate comparison between the two.
Nice try at rewriting history, though. You really have to admire anyone with such a capacity for ignoring reality, evidence and attested historicity, and in the face of it all, still constructing the world they wish were there, rather than seeing the one that is.
muslim terrorists do not kill in the name of islam. they do it based on their dire socio-political conditions, in which religion gets used as a kind of rallying call. it isnt about religion. religion gets caught up in it. muslims have taken responsibility for this by condemning it the world over. it isnt islam, & it isnt the Islamic tradition either.
All religions teach about the sanctity of life:
5:32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
1 of the most amazing verses in the quran actually says that if your mother/sister/brother/relative etc. is murdered, u may seek justice. But that u may also forgive, & ask for reasonable compensation instead, to avoid more killing:
2:178-179 O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission (in forgiveness) is made by the brother (or the relatives etc.) of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves (from evil, & become of the pious).
Nor does islam allow suicide:
4:29 O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you.
fighting in quran is only restricted to defence & against oppression. both taking innocent life & ones own life is totally transgressing the limits of islam. NOWHERE IN THE QURAN DOES IT EVER GIVE PERMISION TO KILL AN INNOCENT PERSON:
2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. Allah does not love transgressors
What is so hypocritical is how Christians insist on making blanket judgments about islam, while glossing over their own history like that of Christian nazi germany, which is just one example. The list is actually so much longer. The only reason I even brought up nazi germany is becoz u arrogantly really go out of your way to attack islam, things that are in fact anti-islamic in any case, & things that arent even related to the OP, when the western Christian tradition of violence is absolutely dismal. Its both ignorant & hypocritical. more recently bush called his estimated 1/2 million dead in afghanistan & iraq, a "crusade" & that "god is on our side."
But im not calling Christianity terrorism. There is no such thing as a divinely revealed religion of terrorism. There isnt such a thing as jewish or Islamic terrorism either. Terrorism has no religion. it is committed by many faiths, & against their own people. It comes from other things. through either ignorance or hatred of islam, these fingers get pointed. We could make exactly the same statements about Christians u know.
(Some sites showing how Christian the nazis thought they were, that they justified it through the bible, that those sort of chosen race concepts predated the Nazis & was found in many other christian countries also):
The (German) leaders they did esteem were recognizably Protestant. And one of those actually is, as frightening as it sounds, a theology which recognized the Volk or the race or the people, as one of the orders ordained by God. Now, this sounds heretical today, the idea that race is one of God's creations, but one hundred years ago, even before the Nazis, you begin to see varieties of Protestant thought which suggested just that. It is called a Theology of the Orders of Creation. And it was quite current in Lutheran circles both before the Nazis and during the Nazis, too.
Lutheran scholars began to argue that along with the family and the state, God had made the race, the Volk, one of His orders. And of course they didnt just say the German Volk, they said the Volk as a category.
That idea spread to a lot of countries in the 19th century Britain, the United States, scholars have seen this in South Africa as well. So this idea of my people as the chosen people you actually see in other Protestant countries in the modern period.
Antisemites in the 19th century looked at Jesus and said 'Well, he doesn't care about the law, he doesn't like the Old Testament, he throws the moneychangers and hagglers out of the temple. In John 8:44 he says 'Jews, you are the children of the devil', this kind of thing. And so there was a particular kind of intellect in the 19th century who began this idea of the Aryan Christ. And Hitler and almost all Nazis continue this lineage of thought.
the record of the Catholics, who were before 1933 squarely anti-Nazi, they too could be anti-Semitic. Most varieties of Protestantism in Germany gave expression to their anti-Semitism. You could find anti-Semitism within all of these confessions.
When the Soviet Union was invaded, clergymen, Protestant or Catholic, would have sermonized about the crusade against Bolshevism.
They probably would have toned down an explicit anti-Semitism because a lot of churchmen, after the Nazis began to systematically murder the Jews, learned about it and did nothing about it. This is one of the great tragedies of church history in the Third Reich that to a man or a woman, there was no Christian clergy person who got up on the pulpit and said Guess what I found out last week? The Jews are being exterminated. This is a sin and must stop. That never happened. Not one clergy person of either denomination made a similar public declaration vis-à-vis the genocide of the Jews.
http://www.theturning.org/folder/nazis.html
From one fact alone, noted by Richard Grunberger, and confirmed by numerous historians, it is possible to learn that the Protestant churches remained shrouded in silence while the Nazis were massively tormenting, torturing, imprisoning, deporting, enslaving and killing the Jews.
What conclusions did Erickson reach as to the stance of the three men who would be expected to exemplify the ultimate in the embodiment of those noble values that millions of Sunday school children are taught attach to Christian folk? They are grim:
"They each supported Hitler openly, enthusiastically, and with little restraint." In fact, they deemed it the Christian thing to do. They "saw themselves and were seen by others as genuine Christians acting upon genuine Christian impulses." Furthermore, all three tended "to see God's hand in the elevation of Hitler to power." Hirsch was a member of the Nazi party and of the SS. The Nazi state, he said, should be accepted and supported by Christians as a tool of God's grace.http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/back/hakeem/holocaust5.html
Churches throughout Europe were mostly silent while Jews were persecuted, deported and murdered. In Nazi Germany in September 1935, there were a few Christians in the Protestant Confessing Church who demanded that their Church take a public stand in defense of the Jews.
These discussions, however, tended to become focused more on secondary strategic considerations -- like maintaining good relations with colleagues in the German Churches -- than on the central humanitarian issues that were really at stake.
Churches throughout the world began to address their failures after 1945. Confessions of guilt have been issued by Catholic Churches in France and Germany, and most major Protestant denominations, beginning with the German Evangelical Church's Stuttgart Declaration of Guilt in August 1945 (three months after the war in Europe ended). The early statements were vague, often referring only to the Churches' general lack of decisiveness in opposing Nazism. More recently, however, the Christian Churches have been far more specific -- recognizing that they not only failed to resist Nazism, but actually helped prepare the way for the mass destruction of Europe's Jews through centuries of proselytization, attacks on Judaism, and tacit or overt support for pogroms and other anti-Jewish violence.
Three main factors shaped the behavior of the Christian Churches during the Nazi reign of terror in Germany and abroad. The first was the theological and doctrinal anti-Judaism that existed in parts of the Christian tradition. (Long before 1933, the anti-Judaism that existed within the Churches -- ranging from latent prejudice to the virulent diatribes of people like Martin Luther -- lent legitimacy to the racial anti-Semitism that emerged in the late nineteenth century.) The second factor was the Churches' historical role in creating "Christendom" -- the Western European culture that, since the era of the Roman emperor Constantine, had been explicitly and deliberately "Christian." The Churches' advocacy of a "Christian culture" led to a "sacralization of cultural identity" (as the theologian Miroslav Volf puts it), in which dominant, positive values were seen as "Christian" ones, while developments viewed negatively (such as secularism and Marxism) were attributed to "Jewish" influences.
http://www.adl.org/Braun/dim_14_1_role_church_print.asp
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