hugs and islam

[Catherineanne]

This is why there is no morals, young people from very early ages losing their virginity and then young girls going out partying and getting laid this is the life in the west.

I find your constant harping on the early sexuality of Western girls rather disturbing, to be honest. I thought you were a good Moslem now?

Brings to mind the image of someone on a diet slavering at the sight of a well stocked cake shop window, and then reminiscing about great cream cakes of his time.

That ain't morality.

 

[MercuryAndy]

I find it rather funny. Ironic they worship a man who was supposidly the seal of phrophits who had many wives and many more sexual partners. Then they castise us for our liberal veiws on sexuality.

Yes i dont know what liberal means but it sounded like it should be included anyway.

 

[Catherineanne]

Yeah like the Bosnians and chechnians and the Palestians of Sabra and Shatilla Massacred in the millions.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

Killing people in tens, hundreds and thousands is not as evil as killing people in millions.

On Planet Islam, would that be?



I think a few hugs would help a lot.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Muslems dont even support me in my claim to world domination =(

 

[Catherineanne]

Muslems dont even support me in my claim to world domination =(

That's because your skirt is too short.

Yer showing yer legs, laddie.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Why cant muslems stop making racist comments about me?

Ok they havnt ever but i thought i better say it beacuse i have no idea what is going on anymore.

 

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

Bah this partisan stuff is boring. Genocide isn't a religious thing, guys. Get over it.

Definition of genocide.​

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group,"

http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm

​

​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I find it rather funny. Ironic they worship a man who was supposidly the seal of phrophits who had many wives and many more sexual partners. Then they castise us for our liberal veiws on sexuality.

Yes i dont know what liberal means but it sounded like it should be included anyway.

Wonder how many christ-ians got their view from the Koran and mingled into our Holy Bible and became "mixed up".

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the Truth.

 

[little_wing]

Definition of genocide.​

[/left]

Says the UN, for legal reasons.... The meaning of the actual word is rather more narrow. Genocide comes from the Greek Genos, which means race, and -cide (from the Latin verb caedere) is of course killing, as in homocide, suicide, fratricide, etc. As such, genocide is the murder of a race.

My Oxford Australian Dictionary says genocide is the "deliberate extermination of a race of people". Online dictionaries concur.

Wordnet: systematic killing of a racial or cultural group

American Heritage Dictionary: The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

There is a lot of debate about the meaning of the term, but I prefer to use it in its most precise meaning, when it pertains to a race. People throw the term around enough anyway.

 

[peaceinislam]

One point here: do you want to live under a religion of grace or a religion of law?
Muslim woman caught in adultery = stoning
Christian woman caught in adultery = forgiveness

Christianity gives grace to people who may fall into sin.

The New Covenant represents a shift in focus within God's dealings with the human race. It is called the Dispensation of Grace, and it is a radical change from the Old Testament's Dispensation of Law (Judaism and Islam).

Under the Dispensation of Grace, complete obedience to a set of religious laws and regulations is not required as a means of securing a degree of righteousness that will please God.

Having faith to believe that Jesus completely fulfilled all of the laws of God on behalf of all who would put their trust in Him bestows the gift of righteousness to Christians. Selah.

well theres a difference between punishment for adulterous relations & premarital sex in islam. the latter is more lenient than the other becoz marriage is sacred & a blessing. in the islamic tradition one is actually rewarded for sleeping with ones husband/wife, precisely becoz it is done in the sacred institution of marriage (i.e. legitimately), & not outside of it which is bad. one actually gets rewarded for that.
79:40-41And for such as had entertained the fear of standing before their Lord's (tribunal) and had restrained (their) soul from lower desires, Their abode will be the Garden.
& unlike christians of course u know that we believe that jesus(p) upheld the law as matt 5 suggests. anyway thats all beside the point.

the point is that becoz Christians don’t abide by religious law doesn’t make it irrelevant. I get your argument. But we all believe in gods grace here, not only Christians u know. Every breath we take is by his grace alone. We all know that. But laws are also important.

Heres an analogy. Is there a country in the world that doesn’t have a constitution? Firstly there is basically a concept as to how the country should work. but then there are the laws that safeguard it.

god loves believers who do good. So whats your concept of a good life? Is it the same as mine? Is it the same as an aitheists? An agnostic? A jew? A materialist? There are things that we can measure – this is the concept of ma’roof in islam – meaning that which is known to be good & just. But even so, in our attempts to make life easier for ourselves it just becomes convenience. In other words, when good & evil is not constant & clear, they become relative good & bad. i.e. ‘what is good for me today, may not be good for me tomorrow – so it is no longer good. Or what is bad for me today, may not be bad for me tomorrow, so it is relative bad’. Guidance (i.e. ‘gods law’ or a ‘constitution’ so to speak) is critical.
47:14 Is he who relieth on a clear proof from his Lord like those for whom the evil that they do is beautified while they follow their own lusts?

Full knowledge is obviously with god, not us. Good & bad cant simply sway & be rationalized by convenience.
So God has measured everything…

Birth is measured:
13:8 Allah knoweth that which every female beareth and that which the wombs absorb and that which they grow. And everything with Him is measured.
The earth is measured:
15:19-21 And the earth We spread out, and placed therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein all kinds of things in due proportion.
And We have provided therein means of living, for you and for those whom you provide not (moving (living) creatures, cattle, beasts, and other animals).
And there is not a thing, but with Us are the stores thereof. And We send it not down except in a known measure.
Our actions should be measured:
17:35 And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight. That is good (advantageous) and better in the end.
Everything He has measured:
25:2 He hath created everything and hath meted out for it a measure.
The messengers have conveyed this:
57:25 We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure;
...and that Allah may know him who helpeth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty.
& This summarizes I think:
87:1-5 Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High,
Who has created (everything), and then proportioned it;
And Who has measured (preordainments for each and everything even to be blessed or wretched); then guided (i.e. showed mankind the right as well as wrong paths, and guided the animals to pasture);
And Who brings out the pasturage,
And then makes it dark stubble.
(…These verses also seem to imply birth, life, & death. & the measure of our existence. & guidance).


in short, our existence is by gods grace, & so also is our guidance.

Please. Human history is a long sordid tale of war and suffering. Don't even begin to pretend that Islamic people are any different.

I know that nobodys perfect. I’m speaking relatively about genocide in the western & muslim world. The former is very extensive, the other isn’t. i'm sorry, thats the truth.

Tell that to the Armenians who attempted secession from the Ottoman Empire during WWI.

Having a rosy-eyed view of one's history is no good, and it certainly impresses nobody in an argument.

Janissary, I wouldn’t say the muslim world has no tradition of genocide if I didn’t know what I was talking about. With all respect to the Armenians, the Armenian case is by no means clear cut. There is big debate over it - whether it was grossly exaggerated by the british to achieve there political ends of bringing down the ottoman empire. It was the classical divide & conquer, which seems to precede just about every takeover. what kind of history does the conquerer write of the conquered? I know of an interview with an Armenian woman, who was then in her 90’s, who actually lived in iraq in the ottoman empire. She said things were okay. That muslims, jews & Christians lived together & got on fine together. She said “…..until the british came.” That it was them who started telling Armenian christians that they were different to the muslims. That they believe in jesus(p) & muslims don’t.

No it doesn't. Countries which operate strict Islamic law take away freedom of behaviour, and impose strict behavioural laws from the outside.

I have a Moslem relation who was one day sitting in a public hotel lobby in a Moslem country, talking with her brother. She was called to the desk and asked to provide proof that they both had the same parents. What is this all about? This is, imo, indicative of an appalling infringement of basic human rights. Fortunately for them both, they were brother and sister, and could prove it from their passports.

This kind of paranoia does not say much for cultural presuppositions about the heart of the average Moslem, does it?

U should know that there isn’t a single country in the world run according to Islamic/sharia law. Just like there isn’t a single country run according to ‘Christian law’. U mension a muslim country in your reference. I assume u mean arab. Arab countries are in many ways caught up in tradition, or in colonial legacy. Not necessarily islam. One classic example is Saudi Arabia – the spiritual heart of islam. Yet they are a kingdom, & they were made royalty by the british! not by islam, or even by the arabs. Whereas islam is against that sort of hereditary rule. The caliphs after mughammed(p) were elected. Leadership was not inherited according to royal blood.

I find it rather funny. Ironic they worship a man who was supposidly the seal of phrophits who had many wives and many more sexual partners. Then they castise us for our liberal veiws on sexuality.

Yes i dont know what liberal means but it sounded like it should be included anyway.

Mercuryandy, u thow in so many extreme comments. Too many to respond to. its unfair u know. Firstly, almost all prohets married, & most had more than 1 wife. Mughammed(p) never once engaged in sex outside of marriage, nor did he ever approve of it, even though it was very common at the time. His only relationships with women were in legitimate, contractual marriages with proper witnesses according to law.

In islam, It is the sole responsibility of the husband to provide for his wife & family financially. On the day of judgement a husband will also be made to account for all unhappiness he may have caused his wife. In this it is not in the interest of the husband to have many wives. The quran specifically states that 1 should marry only 1. more than 1 (up to 4) is the exception, under certain conditions.

Look at his wife Ume-Salma(ra) for example. Both her 2 former husbands died in battle, 1 after the other. She was only 30 years old by this time. The prophets(p)’ marriage was motivated by compassion where the young widow with 4 small children & no one to look after got a home & he(p) provided sustenance for her and her children. All but 1 his wives were widows, & was likewise very specific reasons for every single 1 them. This can be a much bigger subject tho.

 

[peaceinislam]

Ironic they worship a man who was supposidly the seal of phrophits

Mercuryandy, what r u saying?! christians in the past used to call islam 'muhammadinsism.' akin to 'christianity'. but islam is not named after any human being that muslims worship. it is islam - surrender & belief in god alone. u should really know this by now.

 

[little_wing]

I know that nobodys perfect. I’m speaking relatively about genocide in the western & muslim world. The former is very extensive, the other isn’t. i'm sorry, thats the truth.

This is such a stupid comparison, really. Tell me, how extensive is liberal democracy in the muslim world?

 

[peaceinislam]

This is such a stupid comparison, really. Tell me, how extensive is liberal democracy in the muslim world?

what r u talking about? im talking about genocide, & youre talking about liberal democracy. these are 2 different points. caliphs were elected in islam. they consulted a body that was also elected. every1 was given rights in islam, & im not interested in going thru it all at this moment, becoz it was not the point i raised. what i stated was true.

 

[little_wing]

what r u talking about? im talking about genocide, & youre talking about liberal democracy. these are 2 different points. caliphs were elected in islam. they consulted a body that was also elected. every1 was given rights in islam, & im not interested in going thru it all at this moment, becoz it was not the point i raised. what i stated was true.

My point is neither the muslim nor western world are perfect, peaceful etc. In any case, your assertion that muslims haven't commited genocide is ludicrous. Armenia has already been raised, but another prime example is the muslim subjugation of the subcontinent. The Hindu population was decreased by as many as 80 million. It was both a murderous and a cultural genocide.

 

[peaceinislam]

My point is neither the muslim nor western world are perfect, peaceful etc. In any case, your assertion that muslims haven't commited genocide is ludicrous. Armenia has already been raised, but another prime example is the muslim subjugation of the subcontinent. The Hindu population was decreased by as many as 80 million. It was both a murderous and a cultural genocide.

Aryan invasions came first & original inhabitants were converted. Muslim presence in india dates from about 711. between then & the 11th century there were many muslims rulers, some who were not, many came from different countries & fought each other. Then british collaborated with rajas & nawabs & there was about 2 centuries of fighting. British took over in 1857. later decided to withdraw without leaving any clear direction for muslims – India was divided, creating Pakistan, but the Kashmir issue was left deliberately open. Kashmir is still as a result a big site of death, rape, & conflict. There has been fighting between all elements of the population. Do u you mean to say that Mughals committed genocide on Hindus? GENOCIDE is what was committed by Nazis over Jews, and there are now about 0.1% of germans who are Jews, genocide was what was committed by Ximenes in Spain and there were no Muslims left. Had Mughals or other rulers done so, having ruled for 1000 years, forget about being in overwhelming majority that they are, at about 82% of India, Hindus wouldn't have even remained a minority, keeping in view of the fact that those were the Middle Ages with no UN and no Human Rights, even for the name sake. Think about it - how on earth can u get 80 million killed & be an 82% majority? I’ve seen numbers presented before that didn’t even come remotely close to yours, while they at least admitted that they couldnt produce accurate evidence.

The massive genocides in the west, over & over again, doesn’t even remotely compare with the tradition in muslim world. That was all I was saying. Why do u hate that so much. its the truth. they dont even come close. There is no consensus on the Armenian case, which is disputed even in britian itself, that the numbers are gross exaggerations.
Turkish authorities have welcomed proper historical examination of the event .in an open letter by Prime Minister Erdogan to the U.S. President dated 10 april 2005, extended an "invitation to your country to establish a joint group consisting of historians and other experts from our two countries to study the developments & events of 1915 not only in the archives of Turkey and Armenia but also in the archives of all relevant third countries & to share their findings with the international public."

As for India, I don’t deny violence there, & I don’t take anything away from the suffering of hindus, nor of muslims in Kashmir, but your number of 80 million is totally over the top. muslims are by no means perfect & we all have black sheep but what you are suggesting is totally over the top.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Mercuryandy, u thow in so many extreme comments. Too many to respond to. its unfair u know. Firstly, almost all prohets married, & most had more than 1 wife. Mughammed(p) never once engaged in sex outside of marriage, nor did he ever approve of it, even though it was very common at the time. His only relationships with women were in legitimate, contractual marriages with proper witnesses according to law.

In islam, It is the sole responsibility of the husband to provide for his wife & family financially. On the day of judgement a husband will also be made to account for all unhappiness he may have caused his wife. In this it is not in the interest of the husband to have many wives. The quran specifically states that 1 should marry only 1. more than 1 (up to 4) is the exception, under certain conditions.

Look at his wife Ume-Salma(ra) for example. Both her 2 former husbands died in battle, 1 after the other. She was only 30 years old by this time. The prophets(p)’ marriage was motivated by compassion where the young widow with 4 small children & no one to look after got a home & he(p) provided sustenance for her and her children. All but 1 his wives were widows, & was likewise very specific reasons for every single 1 them. This can be a much bigger subject tho.

are you saying isa had a wife?

If you realy want to be picky then it can be said that the action taken by turkish muslems inspired hitler for the holocost.

He recived a letter from a german army medic asking him to leave the jews alone as he seen in turkey. Hitlers reply was something to the meaning of no one remembers the genocide of yesterday. You will have to look up the original words.

Armanians were killed in caved by the burning of vegitation. Hitler also killed by carbon monoxide poisining when he used cars to kill the jews.

I dont mean worship mohamid as in worship god but you have realy strong respect and admeration for him.

peace you dont provide a date for when the brittish withdrew.
you are attempting to make it appear that they did not stay for long.

Im not sure of the date myself but it became a republic in 1956 so i would guess that the brittish withdrew about the time of the second world war. Without clear direction is far too vaige to be used as evidence. George bush does not have a clear direction to take america straight into a wall maby but its not clear.

And lets all not forget that serbs are bad.

This argument isnt realy going anywhere. We make up statisctics then you get annoyed and make up some more. Then we both get annoyed and there is no reason for it.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Hey mercuryandy,
hey jimmy what the definition of a scotsman?
Peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just

 

[MercuryAndy]

One who originates from scotland.

Do i realy neeed to report you for racial abuse?

 

[Exegete12]

Killing people in tens, hundreds and thousands is not as evil as killing people in millions.

On Planet Islam, would that be?



I think a few hugs would help a lot.

Ohh here we go I'll be in to that (three enough... I like working in threes).

 

[Exegete12]

Wonder how many christ-ians got their view from the Koran and mingled into our Holy Bible and became "mixed up".

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the Truth.

So maybe the Koran has Jewish fables in it????
What would those Jewish fables be?