How would you react?

[quatona]

It sounds silly, but I would never want the perps dead. I don't want them killed or I don't want to kill them. It's so not me. But I can't forgive them for what they did to me.....

What exactly does that mean? What are the consequences of forgiving/not forgiving someone, and who is most affected by them?
And what do you exactly mean when saying "can´t"?

And repenting for being raped....

I really have no idea why I should do that.

If you allow me to try to clarify what I understand CC to be saying:
He does not mean that you have to repent for being raped, but for not doing everything you could (which of course is nothing for him or me to judge, imo) to prevent a rape; it does, for what he feels you need to repent for, make no difference whether you were the victim or a third party observer, who didn´t do everything in his power to prevent the rape.
Not that I agree with him, just trying to clarify. As you know, I´m not a great fan of all this guilt/blame/repentence/forgiveness business, anyways.

 

[quatona]

Because violence against men doesn't exist? Let's cut to the chase and say violence against anyone is inexcusible. (Except for lawful and military violence, which is a different kettle of fish)

I don´t see how they are a different kettle of fish, unless you have first taken the fish and put them in a different kettle. But that´s off-topic, I´m afraid.

 

[non-religious]

[belladonic-haze]
What the perps do, I do not care about. It's their problem, not mine.

It's not only their problem and that's the whole point. It becomes our problem if they are out on the street committing rape after rape.

The "only" way to prevent it is to report the crime?
I disagree

It certainly helps though.

Well, the feds don't lie, they do all these little researches and discovered that most rapists are repeating their crime over and over again....until they get caught. These are not made up facts.....I researched it carefully.

Which is why it's so important to report the crime.

I have hope that one day I won't walk up because I have a nightmare. I stopped hurting myself. I have hope that one day I am freed of the fear, the vomitting and so on......I will get there. I forgive myself over and over again, because I have nothing to blame me for....but the guilt was there...the shame....a long time.

It was never your fault and I can't begin to understand how difficult it must be to deal with this.
I certainly appreciate your honesty

But I can't forgive them for what they did to me.....

I can see why forgiveness would be a difficult thing to do, but I would encourage you to try and forgive if only to help alleviate some of the pain you feel....

 

[ChristianCenturion]

What exactly does that mean? What are the consequences of forgiving/not forgiving someone, and who is most affected by them?
And what do you exactly mean when saying "can´t"?


If you allow me to try to clarify what I understand CC to be saying:
He does not mean that you have to repent for being raped, but for not doing everything you could (which of course is nothing for him or me to judge, imo) to prevent a rape; it does, for what he feels you need to repent for, make no difference whether you were the victim or a third party observer, who didn´t do everything in his power to prevent the rape.
Not that I agree with him, just trying to clarify. As you know, I´m not a great fan of all this guilt/blame/repentence/forgiveness business, anyways.

It is difficult to discuss topics like this when a person places their self up for discussion. A balanced mixture of compassion and reason is sometimes difficult. I don't claim to be someone that can articulate what I wish and strike that balance, but I try the best I can.
That being said, I'll just throw in some clarifiers here in regards to what I've said and if nobody has any objections.

I have no idea what or how Bell might or might not have struggled against any past incident. And I can understand a level of error mentioned in destroying evidence while being traumatized or perhaps naive, leaving her with it being an issue of her word against the accused. At least in that sense, she can acknowledge that it was a mistake made. And emphasize that I do not claim to say that mistakes are sins.

Not to make any accusations here and I was attempting to speak generally in much of this thread, but there is usually something that is in need of repentance. In this case, I can't really comment what that might be, but I do have... perhaps an inclination.
It may be that some of the more condemning comments were inferred by me incorrectly, but I have attempted to nudge, remind and reply with what I had to go on... and I consider it out of my hands from there.

 

[quatona]

It is difficult to discuss topics like this when a person places their self up for discussion.

I see that as a great problem, too, and have said so in my first post.
I think the solution is to keep strictly to keep the personal, individual characteristics of person and case out of the discussion. Which, admittedly, is not an easy task.

I have no idea what or how Bell might or might not have struggled against any past incident. And I can understand a level of error mentioned in destroying evidence while being traumatized or perhaps naive, leaving her with it being an issue of her word against the accused. At least in that sense, she can acknowledge that it was a mistake made. And emphasize that I do not claim to say that mistakes are sins.

I see the problem with the particular issue of rape victims in that there is an unreasonably overproportional effort of justifying their - also unreasonably overproportional - feelings of guilt as reasonable and appropriate, and even societal interest to increase these feelings of guilt.
I.e. usually if someone feels guilty for something he is not the direct author of, we try to talk him out of these overproportional feelings of guilt, although they may or may not have done something wrongor not perfectly reasonable in regards to the action of someone else.
Only when it comes to rape there seems to be a strange effort to emphasize those errors and justify these feelings of guilt as appropriate.

 

[quatona]

It certainly helps though.

How the heck does reporting an action help to prevent it? I mean as long as time travel is not available for us....

 

[ChristianCenturion]

How the heck does reporting an action help to prevent it? I mean as long as time travel is not available for us....
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It sounded odd when I read it originally in Bell's post too.

I believe the intended sentiment was it helps prevent "future" events by that perpetrator.

 

[kopilo]

I don´t see how they are a different kettle of fish, unless you have first taken the fish and put them in a different kettle. But that´s off-topic, I´m afraid.

Military and police violence (in the sense of keeping the law), is done in order to keep some sort of order to a civilisation. Violence such as rape is said to be about power.

I mean the difference between stopping things from going to complete anarchy and violence done for self-centered reasons.

 

[quatona]

Military and police violence (in the sense of keeping the law), is done in order to keep some sort of order to a civilisation.

Military violence cannot be counted as keeping the law, because war happens between countries with different legal systems.

Violence such as rape is said to be about power.

And police and military is not?

I mean the difference between stopping things from going to complete anarchy and violence done for self-centered reasons.

So the distinction seems to be more like "organized violence" vs. "individual violence". Now, by throwing these fish in different kettle, we can create a significant difference. I´m not sure I want to go there.

 

[kopilo]

Military violence cannot be counted as keeping the law, because war happens between countries with different legal systems.

Well, war doesn't always happen between different countries (such as civil war).

And police and military is not?

You'd have to link military and police officers as being malevolent to equate the two.

So the distinction seems to be more like "organized violence" vs. "individual violence". Now, by throwing these fish in different kettle, we can create a significant difference. I´m not sure I want to go there.

No, lawful violence vs non lawful violence is not nessicarily "organised violence" vs "individual violence" don't forget "organised crime".

One type of violence (generally) is accepted by society as a whole and the other is not.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Some discussion/debate is expected to touch on other topics, but let's not let it drift too long off-topic.

Just a reminder...

Thank you for your understanding.