Misty Minister
Well-Known Member
Bring the perp to justice? Under the old testement system the woman would be put to death or have to marry the jerk. Some choice!
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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belladonic-haze
Guest
Oh, because I am feeling hurt I just should hide in a special forum with other victims instead of talking about it in a general open forum? That is weird and silly, don't ya think?
If the day comes that I repent for being a victim of a sick...person, shoot me please! That would mean I would admit that I was wrong......and that is the last thing I would do.
Rapists should be locked up and the key should be thrown away.....They do not belong on the street. They repeat their henious crime over and over again. It's a well known fact. Even if they lead normal lives, they rape and can't stop this urge to rape......not even with chemical castration. They do not need their whole body to rape.....objects like guns can help them with that. It is not about the sex!
They do not belong out there on the streets....
simple.....
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Yusuf Evans
Well-Known Member
I would see if she would like to seek out counseling. Then I'd ask her if my Klan uncles can take care of the guy for her. 
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belladonic-haze
Guest
To answer you, just a few facts. (here)
Myth: Only "bad" women get raped.
Fact: No other crime victim is looked upon with the degree of suspicion and doubt as a victim of rape. Although there are numerous reasons why society has cast blame on the victims of rape, a major reason found in studies is that of a feeling of self protection. If one believes that the victim was responsible because she put herself in an unsafe position, such as being out late at night, drinking alcohol, dressing in a certain way, or "leading on" the rapist, then we are able to feel safer because "we wouldn't do those things." But, the basic fact remains that without consent, no means no, no matter what the situation or circumstances.
Myth: Only certain kinds of people get raped. It cannot happen to me.
FACTRapists act without considering their victim's physical appearance, dress, age, race, gender, or social status. Assailants seek out victims who they perceive to be vulnerable. The Orange County Rape Crisis Center has worked with victims from infancy to ninety-two years of age and from all racial and socioeconomic backgrounds.
Myth: Most rapes occur on the street, by strangers, or by a few crazy men.
FACT Over 50% of reported rapes occur in the home. 80% of sexual assaults reported by college age women and adult women were perpetrated by close friends or family members. There is no common profile of a rapist. Rapes are committed by people from all economic levels, all races, all occupations. A rapist can be your doctor, your boss, your clergyman, your superintendent, your partner, your lover, your friend or your date.
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ChristianCenturion
Veteran / Tuebor
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I don't agree that everyone that posts in that dedicated forum is hiding or even continuing to be a victim.
I suggest rethinking that.
So you did everything right?
Hmm... that's not what I read from what you offered.
What you might have done or didn't do would be irrelevant to me BTW. I along with others are interacting with a person in the now. How much an incident in the past controls a person's life is what usually stands out in situations that deal with this. It has been challenging with various people I know and love and it took a good deal of time to heal the controlling wounds.
Well, there you go.
That would be your whole reason for objecting to the previously referenced scripture. It wasn't condemning enough. Whether or not it is or isn't of God would not be the issue. It didn't meet a deep desire, the desire has dominance and thus it is rejected.
I'll put it as plainly as I can:
If you were given and saved through grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, who are you to deny grace to others?
If murderers, thieves, prostitutes and idolaters have grace and can be redeemed, what gives you the authority to say "but not rapists"?
You did mention earlier that you were not bitter, didn't you? Do you still assert that?
Listen, as much as my fleshly side dislikes defending those that have hurt dear members of my family, people are healed through the power of God, the gift of the Holy Spirit and the grace of Jesus Christ.
Both victim and offender.
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belladonic-haze
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Myth:Rape trauma syndrome is a transient problem. Most healthy people will return to a normal state of functioning within a year.
Fact: Surviving a rape can lead a woman to a better understanding of her own strength, but rape is a life changing experience. Rape has a devastating effect on the mental health of victims, with nearly one-third (31%) of all rape victims developing Rape-related Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (RR-PTSD) some time in their lifetimes. More than one in ten rape victims currently suffer from RR-PTSD. (National Victim Center and Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center)
I did nothing wrong. It isn't and it will never be anyone else fault to get raped. It's not something we victims 'hunt' for. It's not something anyone of us looks for. Rape hasn't to do anything with sex. it is a violent act. He could have beat the crap out of me I would have felt the same, only now he humiliated me to submit me to his weapon...his own body. Believe me, it's not something you want to happen to anyone. Even if I was naked...no means no and I'll be darned if I repent for something he did to me.......
God was there, you weren't......God understands why I am not repenting, you don't....I'll think I'll go with God on this one...
Rapists don't repent...they rape....and they will rape until they get caught. Ask the feds or the police.....you'll see that most rapists are just sick minds that do not belong on the street. Don't you want women to be save out there? Even if that woman is a promiscuous woman, she deserves to be treated with respect and rape ins't exactly that, now is it?
Myth: Sexual assault is an impulsive, spontaneous act.
Fact: Most rapes are carefully planned by the rapist. A rapist will rape again and again, usually in the same area of town and in the same way.
Myth:Most rapists only rape one time.
FACT Most rapists rape again, and again, and again - until caught.
Go to the site in my previous post...with a list of facts and myths (here) and destroy the myths society has about rape. It is very amazing what they say. You'll be surprised and you will understand what I am trying to say here.
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ChristianCenturion
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There seems to be a disconnect, if not a reading into, between what I said and your posting there.
No matter how many myth-busters you keep posting, it doesn't dismiss pro-active training and I'm not the only one stating this belladonic-haze:
There are preventative measures and preparedness women can do as it relates to assault/rape/molestation.
And again, what you or the accused may have done or didn't do in the past is not my concern today. The call and promise is the same for all:
Grace is given, repent and receive forgiveness for our sins in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Exactly what part of that keeps you a victim, re-victimizes you, or condones condemnation of someone that has sinned in the past?
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Hmm, I asked this question in another thread, but I think it would provide a good ethics and morality question. Of course I imagine the eyes of some of you rolling: "Here she goes again," but I do not care. It's an important issue to me. I hope that even one man or woman gets another look at this matter because like the Talmud says: "Save a life and you save the world"
A teengirl (17) is raped. She knows the guy, it was her date. You know the girl. She goes to the police but the perp. is set free because there is not enough evidence and the girl was already sexual active. How would you react to the girl?
Some examples of reactions that are real to me and some other survivors:
"Well, she was drinking..."
"I myself have had people throw rocks at me, call me prostitute, call me trash, refuse to wait on me... the list just goes on."
"I think that what I need to deal with now is the feelings of betrayal I have for women in general. Why didn't the girls in my class stand up for me when I was being tormented by my classmates? Why do women dismiss rape victims as "whiney" or tell their survivor friends to "get over it?"."
"Did you let him rape you so you could sue him?"
"You didnt fight back hard enough so you must have wanted it"
"So was this just something that started off as kissing and then got out of hand or was it that now you feel guilty because you slept with that man?"
What exactly would you want to have done?
The only people who know if the person actually got raped are the accused and the alleged victim. People shhouldn't just go around believing every rape allegation, nor should they go around doubting. I don't know how I would react. It depends on what I know about the victim and the accused.
I mean if a person who actually raped someone was punished (instead of getting off), and then released from jail after a number of years, then the victim would have to see the perp again anyway. This is why christianity teaches forgiveness and trust in God. If you hold hate in you heart for someone or fear them (because you don't have any protection) then the only person who gets destroyed is you. Whether you see your rapist or not, you won't forget about him (or her these days
) anyway. The real healing takes place in the heart and mind of the victim not in the punishment or exile of the 'perp'.
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These are good to know but don't change anything I said.
You seem to be intent on feeling victimized by everything I say but I spoke the truth.
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I would listen to her story.Hmm, I asked this question in another thread, but I think it would provide a good ethics and morality question. Of course I imagine the eyes of some of you rolling: "Here she goes again," but I do not care. It's an important issue to me. I hope that even one man or woman gets another look at this matter because like the Talmud says: "Save a life and you save the world"
A teengirl (17) is raped. She knows the guy, it was her date. You know the girl. She goes to the police but the perp. is set free because there is not enough evidence and the girl was already sexual active. How would you react to the girl?
Some examples of reactions that are real to me and some other survivors:
"Well, she was drinking..."
"I myself have had people throw rocks at me, call me prostitute, call me trash, refuse to wait on me... the list just goes on."
"I think that what I need to deal with now is the feelings of betrayal I have for women in general. Why didn't the girls in my class stand up for me when I was being tormented by my classmates? Why do women dismiss rape victims as "whiney" or tell their survivor friends to "get over it?"."
"Did you let him rape you so you could sue him?"
"You didnt fight back hard enough so you must have wanted it"
"So was this just something that started off as kissing and then got out of hand or was it that now you feel guilty because you slept with that man?"
Trickster
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belladonic-haze
Guest
Strange, how hard people try.....words like the victim only finds healing is by repenting, alligation, situation that you are in, could have prevented it.......well, words like that really mean that people have no clue.
There is not a way to prevent a 'certain' situation or repenting for getting yourself in that situation or even avoiding that situation...because it happens in save environments like home, family, friends, husbands.......situations you trust situations where you let yourself be who you are. No-on can predict a situation, nor being raped. It's not like this hardlly happens. And while I write this a woman is raped again in the USA....whether she is in her home, or out on the street, at the doctor, at the grocery store....or even making out with a friend. It doesn't matter.
Tips to be save help a bit, but make the victim who had to endure the rape aware that she did everything wrong. It all sounds so good on paper. The only way to prevent it is to report the crime....and because only one out of ten rapes is reported a whole lot of creeps are still out there. 1 of 4 women is sexually assaulted one way or the other......if you know 4 women, one had to endure that. She might never talk about it in public and might feel ashamed about it or even guilty....but how well-thought many of you say these things they are as assaulting as the remarks I wrote in the OP. I knw it is no-ones intention to be crude or to hurt the victim....but whatever the victim does - even if she is a prostitute or a nun.....it doesn't matter......the hurt, humiliation and the aftermath is the same. And the shame (mixed with guilt). And frankly, I understand why people feel alone and silenced.....because if we tell what really happened to us....we are told that we could have prevented this.
I wonder how ethical this is and why the morals that are build up throughout the ages are still imbedded in humans. The "get over it" mentality is shocking. If it was that easy, wouldn't you think that it would be the first thing I do? Do you think that I am rewarded somehow? Dr. Phil is a nice guy, but he and his fricking "you get rewarded for your behavior" attitude isn't very realistic sometimes. Hanging naseous over the toilet, freaking out in the dark and locking yourself in the house...living with the fear.....nope...I get nothing out of it. Just these kind of replies.
I am not angry or frustrated about it. It only proves to me that Freud's attitude (women fantasize about rape), and the fact that PTSD was accepted as aftermath from also rape just a decade or two ago, the myths still stand, how hard we survivors try to tell that these and the other myths are not true.......the myths still stand.
There is not a way to prevent a 'certain' situation or repenting for getting yourself in that situation or even avoiding that situation...because it happens in save environments like home, family, friends, husbands.......situations you trust situations where you let yourself be who you are. No-on can predict a situation, nor being raped. It's not like this hardlly happens. And while I write this a woman is raped again in the USA....whether she is in her home, or out on the street, at the doctor, at the grocery store....or even making out with a friend. It doesn't matter.
Tips to be save help a bit, but make the victim who had to endure the rape aware that she did everything wrong. It all sounds so good on paper. The only way to prevent it is to report the crime....and because only one out of ten rapes is reported a whole lot of creeps are still out there. 1 of 4 women is sexually assaulted one way or the other......if you know 4 women, one had to endure that. She might never talk about it in public and might feel ashamed about it or even guilty....but how well-thought many of you say these things they are as assaulting as the remarks I wrote in the OP. I knw it is no-ones intention to be crude or to hurt the victim....but whatever the victim does - even if she is a prostitute or a nun.....it doesn't matter......the hurt, humiliation and the aftermath is the same. And the shame (mixed with guilt). And frankly, I understand why people feel alone and silenced.....because if we tell what really happened to us....we are told that we could have prevented this.
I wonder how ethical this is and why the morals that are build up throughout the ages are still imbedded in humans. The "get over it" mentality is shocking. If it was that easy, wouldn't you think that it would be the first thing I do? Do you think that I am rewarded somehow? Dr. Phil is a nice guy, but he and his fricking "you get rewarded for your behavior" attitude isn't very realistic sometimes. Hanging naseous over the toilet, freaking out in the dark and locking yourself in the house...living with the fear.....nope...I get nothing out of it. Just these kind of replies.
I am not angry or frustrated about it. It only proves to me that Freud's attitude (women fantasize about rape), and the fact that PTSD was accepted as aftermath from also rape just a decade or two ago, the myths still stand, how hard we survivors try to tell that these and the other myths are not true.......the myths still stand.
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sparklecat
Senior Contributor
Hmm, ok, I can see how someone might feel that way. But I can't see how not telling someone how they might defend/protect themselves in the future isn't a good thing to do. It's not your fault if you didn't know ahead of time what you might have done.
Freud's attitude? I'm not sure what you're referring to - mind clarifying?
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belladonic-haze
Guest
Of course you can defend yourself, but it doesn't mean that you won't get raped if you do. It will make your self esteem stronger and more powerful. But how can a three year old defend herself against her father? or an 17 year old who only is 5 feet tall and 90 lbs against a 6 feet male who is 150 lbs and just pulls her down?
Believe me, I kicked and tried to scream, but no-one listens.
Hmm, maybe this will help:
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non-religious
Veteran
Good points......
Of course rapists re-offend just like burglars, armed robbers and petty theives. However contrary to popular opinion many sex offenders do actually stop their behaviour. I don't know the stats, but there has to be a few that do. It's not easy for a victim of rape to step up in court and give evidence. That's why a number of cases get dropped becos the prosecution of a rapist is such a difficult thing for a woman to put herself through.
Those that do will do it because they want to see justice and becos they don't want this to happen to another woman. I applaud these women becos it's easy to say "I would do it, I would go through the cross examinations and see the face of the rapist in court staring back at me." The reality is not that simple, it's an incredibly traumatic experience and one that many victims will not put themselves through.
Again I would say that people who say "get over it" are not the norm and infact should simply be ignored. The real power lies in the victim getting back her life and moving on. That's not to say she would or should ever forget, but if the act has become such a burden and weight around her shoulders to the point of eating her up and making her bitter, resentful and angry for the rest of her life. Then the rapist still has control over her life and ultimately that can ruin the lives of not only the victim, but the family.
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ChristianCenturion
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Really?
I'm wondering exactly how you might know difinitively what I do know or what my life experience has been.
Quite frankly, the fact that I have not disclosed intimate details of my life or the life of those close to me indicate that some claim of what clue I might or might not have would require some sort of mind-reading skill.
I have not seen such in this thread.
Yes, rape happens.
Yes, assault, rape, molestation does happen "statistically" high in environments that one would assume to be safe and by people that the woman or man might know and even may know well.
I have not seen anyone in this thread prove a contradiction to that.
What I have seen and take issue with are failing statements saying that steps can not be taken to reduce the risk, I'm noting a lack of education given to prepare if such a tragedy does happen, and I'm not seeing a sentiment of hope that reflects that the event is not life ending - for either party.
These statements of no way to repent of anything before, during or after (and "anything" would include sexual promiscuity before or continued hating people after BTW), that the situations we allow ourselves to get into "do not matter" and even a notion that there is nothing one can do to avoid "probability" would be what you need to provide others with some proof - and in a way that would be more credible than simply posting a myth-buster relating to other issues, based on probability or giving an opinion.
Yes, education can help.
But it does not mean that the person to whom education was given, but a rape happened regardless, did "everything wrong". It means that a rapist committed an offense. How each party gathers their life together and what they do afterward would also be an important thing to consider.
I can't stress enough how much I disagree with the previous assertion that a rapist must remain a rapist and will rape again. You have brought up statistics and probabilities, but those do not address hope, grace, deliverance or forgiveness - even for those who we might think don't deserve to have it.
The "only" way to prevent it is to report the crime?
I disagree
And no, I had not told women that they could have prevented it. Prevention is usually kept to general discussion of the topic or as proactive measures. I may have asked why they didn't stop it in the repeated situations, but that would be a question that needs to be asked to confront what had happened and an issue they agree was a mistake in which they felt trapped. Yet, a mistake none-the-less.
They were also reassured that there was no condemnation for making mistakes and a call to focus on where to go from there on.
What we had the most trouble with was having them see enough hope and support to allow them to confront the issue and bring accountability or prevention into play.
It took time, much healing and I can't say if it really had the results we would desire. But at least from the healing point forward, they were no longer still living as a repeated victim and what was being done after that was an improvement in their life. They also knew that they were doing what they could to prevent it from happening to others. The joys that involved sexual content and not being triggered into reliving a horror came eventually, but it did come.
Frankly, this equating forgiveness and piecing together a shattered life with a summation of "get over it" is what I find shocking.
If those are all the replies you hear, I'm sorry.
I'm also sorry that this happened to you, I'm sorry that forgiveness for the offender is not an option you are willing to even consider, I'm sorry for a lot of things, but I have seen where there was more offered in this thread than what you claim.
But I have not seen anyone in this thread that has said it was an easy situation or required easy cognitive tasks.
Some of what you have spoken against have not been myths.
And I'm sorry, but I have not read anything to date that indicates to me that anger or frustration is not present. In fact, I can only infer a different opinion on that.
If this makes you feel that I am persecuting the survivor or perpetuating one of those societal myths, then I suppose I will have to disagree and will even be up front in saying that I will be against any claims that repentance, forgiveness and hope are not important, if not critical, aspects to this topic before, during and after an act.
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belladonic-haze
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True, I cannot read minds...thank God!. But I wasn't addressing you personally as far as I am concerned, so you took a wrong conclusion as well. It happens, we're only human. But I can't say that sensitivity is a often used quality here on CF. And I am probably lacking it too sometimes. I am well aware of my flaws. But again, I wasn't addressing YOU, I was addressing the general tone of the posts here.
Y
Prepare? Sorry, I disagree - you can never prepare for rape. Reduce risks? Yes, I am not walking alone in the dark, letting myself be brought home by a man I thought I knew, I trusted him, I felt save. It wasn't the first date you know...I ended up raped by him.....I did everything right and followed all the steps my mom taught me. Never talk to strangers, never walk alone in the dark, never go to unknown places or parks at night. Do not take short cuts through dark alleys.....I did everything humanly possible. Sorry I kissed the guy, but I thought he loved me. I know I loved him.....I just kissed the guy.....
Why should I repent for the fact that I was raped? I just do not get it.....I am probably stupid and have bumped my head....but where comes that idea from that I need to repent?
What the perps do, I do not care about. It's their problem, not mine. Forgiveness? No...maybe I will be able to forgive them, but I can't yet. And I am NOT apologizing for that.
[quoteI can't stress enough how much I disagree with the previous assertion that a rapist must remain a rapist and will rape again. You have brought up statistics and probabilities, but those do not address hope, grace, deliverance or forgiveness - even for those that we might think don't deserve to have those.
The "only" way to prevent it is to report the crime?
I disagree[/quote]
Well, the feds don't lie, they do all these little researches and discovered that most rapists are repeating their crime over and over again....until they get caught. These are not made up facts.....I researched it carefully.
How do you think that makes me feel - I didn't report rapist one, nor the attempted rape by 2, 3, 4) nor rapist 5. They are out there and I feel horrible enough about it. It's the only thing I regret.
And no, I had not told women that they could have prevented it. Prevention is usually kept to general discussion of the topic or as proactive measures. I may have asked why they didn't stop it in the repeated situations, but that would be a question that needs to be asked to confront what had happened and an issue they agree was a mistake in which they felt trapped. Yet a mistake none-the-less.
They were also reassured that there was no condemnation for making mistakes and a call to focus on where to go from there on.
What we had the most trouble with was having them see enough hope and support to allow them to confront the issue and bring accountability or prevention into play.
It took time, much healing and I can't say if it really had the results we would desire. But at least from the healing point forward, they were no longer still living as a repeated victim and what was being done after that was an improvement in their life. They also knew that they were doing what they could to prevent it from happening to others. The joys that involved sexual content and not being triggered into reliving a horror came eventually, but it did come.
Frankly, this equating forgiveness and piecing together a shattered life with a summation of "get over it" is what I find shocking.
I'm also sorry that this happened to you, I'm sorry that forgiveness for the offender is not an option you are willing to even consider, I'm sorry for a lot of things, but I have seen where there was more offered in this thread than what you claim.
But I have not seen anyone in this thread that has said it was an easy situation or required easy cognitive tasks.
Some of what you have spoken against have not been myths.
And I'm sorry, but I have not read anything to date that indicates to me that anger or frustration is not present. In fact, I can only infer a different opinion on that.
If this makes you feel that I am persecuting the survivor or perpetuating one of those societal myths, then I suppose I will have to disagree and will even be up front in saying that I will be against any claims that repentance, forgiveness and hope are not important, if not critical, aspects to this topic before, during and after an act.
OKay, I never said CC said this and CC said that and I think CC is this or that. I was - again - speaking to the crowd.
I have hope that one day I won't walk up because I have a nightmare. I stopped hurting myself. I have hope that one day I am freed of the fear, the vomitting and so on......I will get there. I forgive myself over and over again, because I have nothing to blame me for....but the guilt was there...the shame....a long time.
It sounds silly, but I would never want the perps dead. I don't want them killed or I don't want to kill them. It's so not me. But I can't forgive them for what they did to me.....
And repenting for being raped....
I really have no idea why I should do that.
Have you read the list of myths and facts?
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belladonic-haze
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Of course it is! I would be the last one to deny that. You know that. And even military and 'lawful' violence scare the crap out of me.
Violence against all living beings is wrong. But this was a poster from V-day. This day is to make people aware of the violence that is committed against women. They suffer...as well as men. I just believe that most parents worrt more about their daughters then son when it comes to rape.....
And yes, men get raped, by heterosexual men. It's used as a weapon that humiliates. Not to mention the horrific acts of prison rapes by inmates and guards! In the world one out of 4 women is raped and one out of ten men. And the worst thing is that men are more afraid to talk about it, because they will bump into even worse harrasments!
You are absolutely right, it isn't something we should deny at all!
Gender has nothing to do with it. I just understood the poster and I thought it was powerful......but if it was saying son I would have posted it as well....
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