How would you make society more moral?

[Everlasting33]

In your opinion, right?


That's ok, I read it the first time.
tulc(finishing the last cup for the day)

Sure, of course its my opinion but its the belief in moral absolutism is the only ideology that can define an action in and of itself.

An opinion is not equal to a morally relativistic viewpoint. An opinion is a statement of a person's view and moral relativism is an ideology involving the method of defining morality.


On a side note perhaps you should stay away from all that coffee, it can be addicting.

 

[tulc]

Sure, of course its my opinion but its the belief in moral absolutism is the only ideology that can define an action in and of itself.

An opinion is not equal to a morally relativistic viewpoint. An opinion is a statement of a person's view and moral relativism is an ideology involving the method of defining morality.


On a side note perhaps you should stay away from all that coffee, it can be addicting. (emph. added)

Some call it addicting, I call it a lifestyle choice!
tulc(living the bean bro, living the bean!)

 

[Everlasting33]

Some call it addicting, I call it a lifestyle choice!
tulc(living the bean bro, living the bean!)

I definitely enjoy the smell of brewing coffee but never enjoyed the taste.

 

[AdamClarke]

What culture is that?

There are many tribal cultures that believe that killing and rape of members of other tribes (if I recall correctly mostly Amazonian) is a very moral thing to do. Or at least this was the case when I took Cultural Anthropology.

 

[AdamClarke]

I have given this a lot of thought, and the only thing I can come up with is making available universal higher learning. Studies have shown that while educated persons can still be violent, the more highly one is educated the less likely they are to be involved in violent crime. Would it create a utopia? no. But it would probably lower the incidence of violent crime which is a small but significant start.

 

[Maren]

Wow another gay debate thread asking that it not be turned into another gay debate thread.



Twelve References to "gay." And you write that you don't want this to be a gay thread. Yet, another one.

I think perhaps you need to re-read the OP. Yes, I do mention what happens on many of the gay threads and then use them as an example of what I don't want to have happen hear. Perhaps if you would have actually read the OP, rather than just notice all the time "gay" is mentioned, you might have answered the OP rather than just make a straw man. Thankfully, seems like most others read the OP and understood what was meant.

Gay culture should remain in gay culture and the gay comunity. Including same-gender marriage and every other form of same-gender sex acts. Unfortunately, the gay agenda wants it taught to everyone elses children in the "public" school system.

IF, that happens, then there should be laws that opposition to gay sex and gay culture be taught side by side with the curriculum of gay propaganda.

Yet this is exactly what the OP was set up to avoid. This thread is not to discuss gays, or how to improve "gay culture" or how to get "gay culture" out of the schools. It was how to improve society as a whole and that you were to provide evidence of how it would make an impact on improving society as a whole.

Or else a seperation of sexual orientaion and state.

And if this is seriously what you believe, make your case and explain how it would help solve problems in America. Though personally I think you didn't think this through very well, as this would make recognition of any couples relationship illegal by the law and remove all the legal benefits you enjoy with your spouse.

 

[Verv]

To make society more moral I would abolish the public school system.

There is no need to indcotrinate our kids into secular ethical systems that have no meaning and are fundamentally weak; let the parents play a larger role.

The other thing I'd do would be... Let there be a wise guy who broadcasts to the people ont he radio and television all day just saying re-assuring things.

"Hey, don't cheat other people. Be kind to them. Be understanding of others." ETc.

 

[Maren]

To make society more moral I would abolish the public school system.

There is no need to indcotrinate our kids into secular ethical systems that have no meaning and are fundamentally weak;

Actually, if you want to complain about the schools, the fact is that they by and large don't teach ethics at all (though that will vary by state/locality). And I don't see how abolishing public schools would solve that problem. Rather, I think it would cause more problems, particularly in low income communities/areas.

Part of the reason I believe schools don't teach ethics is parents don't want schools teaching "morals" to their children, just like they didn't want schools to teach about sex education. The problem I see is typically that parent's tend not to teach morals to children, just as that is the reason sex education was picked up by the schools.

let the parents play a larger role.

I've never seen a school that doesn't want parents (as a group) to play a larger role. Talk to almost any school teacher and you will hear complaints about how parent's don't want to play a role. Instead, the role most teachers see from parents is complaints about how the child shouldn't be judged so harshly or should be promoted even though they failed, or why the homework given is too much of a burden (even when it is only 10 minutes of work).

The other thing I'd do would be... Let there be a wise guy who broadcasts to the people ont he radio and television all day just saying re-assuring things.

"Hey, don't cheat other people. Be kind to them. Be understanding of others." ETc.

And I can see this becoming a popular target for ridicule. Just flat out telling people things like that feels insulting, to most of us. Granted, there are ways to do it and, if done right, it might not be a bad thing. But it reminds me of how "Just say no" by Nancy Reagan became so ridiculed by those it was meant to help stay away from drugs.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

To make society more moral I would abolish the public school system.

There is no need to indcotrinate our kids into secular ethical systems that have no meaning and are fundamentally weak; let the parents play a larger role.

The other thing I'd do would be... Let there be a wise guy who broadcasts to the people ont he radio and television all day just saying re-assuring things.

"Hey, don't cheat other people. Be kind to them. Be understanding of others." ETc.

Perhaps he could broadcast on every corner and in every house. And his picture could be everywhere.

You speak of indoctrination, yet you clearly want people to be indoctrinated into your (fascist) views.

Read 1984, and remember it's a warning and not an instruction manual.

 

[AdamClarke]

To make society more moral I would abolish the public school system.

There is no need to indcotrinate our kids into secular ethical systems that have no meaning and are fundamentally weak; let the parents play a larger role.

The other thing I'd do would be... Let there be a wise guy who broadcasts to the people ont he radio and television all day just saying re-assuring things.

"Hey, don't cheat other people. Be kind to them. Be understanding of others." ETc.

And exactly how would you assure the education of the poor?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

And exactly how would you assure the education of the poor?

Homeschooling is one way. And the government could defiantly fund the tools to give to adults.

As one person said "Public schools aren't learning centers, they are war zones"

I suggest that Maren take a long daze at many of our inner city public schools. That is, if you can get past all the crackheads, gangs, fist fights, and drug dealers that surround them.

But thats what happens when you let a system take care of your children.

 

[Maren]

Homeschooling is one way. And the government could defiantly fund the tools to give to adults.

As one person said "Public schools aren't learning centers, they are war zones"

I suggest that Maren take a long daze at many of our inner city public schools. That is, if you can get past all the crackheads, gangs, fist fights, and drug dealers that surround them.

But thats what happens when you let a system take care of your children.

I never said that inner city schools don't have problems. Then again, getting rid of public schools will make the problems of the inner cities far worse; these are people that are unlikely to get any formal education without public schooling (though I shudder to think of the education they would get). They definitely would have no chance at homeschooling because, even if they have two parents at home, then both parents are having to work full-time. Not to mention that few, if any, private schools are going to accept "at risk" students from the inner city.

But this is beside the point, the simple fact is that most public schools are not in the inner city; so why are you trying to use inner city schools as representative of all public schools. Straw man anyone?

So exactly what is your plan for the kids in inner cities if you get rid of their public schools?

 

[SughaNSpice]

Homeschooling is one way. And the government could defiantly fund the tools to give to adults.

That would require a huge government program and that’s going to co$t lot$ and lot$ of money

So how exactly are the poor supposed to work AND home school their children?

As one person said "Public schools aren't learning centers, they are war zones"

I suggest that Maren take a long daze at many of our inner city public schools. That is, if you can get past all the crackheads, gangs, fist fights, and drug dealers that surround them.

And just how many inner city schools have you been to in the last year Creed?

But thats what happens when you let a system take care of your children.

If you are complaining about the school system the question becomes what are you doing to make the education system better?

Are you getting a teaching degree so you can work in one of those inner city schools?
Are you volunteering at schools?
Are you an active member of the PTA?

 

[quatona]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"If no set of moral ideas were better than another, there would be no sense in preferring civilised morality to Nazi morality. The moment you say one lot of morals is better than another, you are in fact measuring them by an ultimate standard." C.S. Lewis[/FONT]

If no piece of food tasted better than another, there would be no sense in preferring civilized food to raw meat. The moment you say one sort of food tastes better than another, you are in fact measuring them by an ultimate standard.

 

[tulc]

If no piece of food tasted better than another, there would be no sense in preferring civilized food to raw meat. The moment you say one sort of food tastes better than another, you are in fact measuring them by an ultimate standard.

...uhmmm how do you get what is in essence a personal preference (some people really do like raw meat) and then get an "ultimate standard"?
tulc(or am I misunderstanding something?)

 

[lawtonfogle]

...uhmmm how do you get what is in essence a personal preference (some people really do like raw meat) and then get an "ultimate standard"?
tulc(or am I misunderstanding something?)

I think it would be fair to say there is an ultimate standard... that is different for each person and that will change over time for many people. But at any given point in time, for one given person, they have a standard which we can call ultimate because all foods theoretically fall upon it. I don't think that is what the person meant though.

 

[Tenka]

How would you make society more moral?

Fascism. Lots of it.

 

[quatona]

...uhmmm how do you get what is in essence a personal preference (some people really do like raw meat) and then get an "ultimate standard"?

That was exactly my question and point: of course you can say "something is better than something else" without having an ultimate standard.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

That would require a huge government program and that’s going to co$t lot$ and lot$ of money

If the government can spend on a billion dollar stimulus plan that gives grants to tattoo parlors and other ridiculous things then they can help with homeschooling.

So how exactly are the poor supposed to work AND home school their children?

When parents come home from work. An hour or 2 from each parent. With homework assignments at the end.

And just how many inner city schools have you been to in the last year Creed?

Uh, I went to one in Los Angeles for 16 years.

If you are complaining about the school system the question becomes what are you doing to make the education system better?

Get rid of the system and put in a new system. One with Christian identity and focus's teaching on ALL aspects of life. Including marriage and family.

Are you getting a teaching degree so you can work in one of those inner city schools?

In public schools in cities the kids tend to control the system, not the teachers. Many of the teachers have given up and just get by each day. Its a miserable life for them

Are you volunteering at schools?

Actually yes, through my parish. We do activities that are in schools at times. Also retreats that have interaction with schoolers.

Are you an active member of the PTA?

No , the PTA is a secular liberal front group that has already supported things that hurt children in the long run. The PTA also fails to support voucher subsidies to religious schools. The PTA is more involved i liberal politics than the actual betterment of children.


http://www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pdf/x3765443936.pdf

 

[tulc]

That was exactly my question and point: of course you can say "something is better than something else" without having an ultimate standard.

Ahh! I THOUGHT had misunderstood what you posted! :o
tulc(will sit over here in the corner and be very quiet)