How would you make society more moral?

[Maren]

There are a few here who say that gay marriage needs to be prevented to keep society from the slippery slope of "anything goes". Personally, I can't see the logic -- gay marriage actually has at its heart the idea that people have one sexual partner as opposed to many and would appear to be an attempt to make gay "culture" more moral. And even then, it still really directly effects a very minor percentage of Americans. In fact, to many of us it appears there many Fundamentalists try to scapegoat gays in order to ignore all the non-gay morality problems that actually effect their lives.

So my question is what would you do, if you had the power, to make America more moral? What type of things would you do to combat the issues that the whole "gay marriage" debate glosses over -- things like promiscuity, teenage pregnancy, high divorce rates, pornography, etc? And please explain how your proposals would directly benefit a majority of the people and society.

I'd appreciate this not turning into another gay debate thread though, at the same time, I don't want to say that if you seriously believe some proposal about homosexuality will benefit the majority, that you can't post that idea. I merely restate the last part of my previous paragraph -- if you propose it then explain how it would directly benefit a majority of people and society rather than just gays/gay society. This means that outlawing gay marriage because it will force Christians to "accept" gay marriage or force Christians to "redefine" marriage -- those do not show any direct benefit for a majority of people or society. Remember this is how we might improve the morals of society in general, not issues that really only apply to a minority.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Wow another gay debate thread asking that it not be turned into another gay debate thread.

There are a few here who say that gay marriage needs to be prevented to keep society from the slippery slope of "anything goes".

Personally, I can't see the logic -- gay marriage actually has at its heart the idea that people have one sexual partner as opposed to many and would appear to be an attempt to make gay "culture" more moral. And even then, it still really directly effects a very minor percentage of Americans. In fact, to many of us it appears there many Fundamentalists try to scapegoat gays in order to ignore all the non-gay morality problems that actually effect their lives.

So my question is what would you do, if you had the power, to make America more moral? What type of things would you do to combat the issues that the whole "gay marriage" debate glosses over -- things like promiscuity, teenage pregnancy, high divorce rates, pornography, etc? And please explain how your proposals would directly benefit a majority of the people and society.

I'd appreciate this not turning into another gay debate thread though, at the same time, I don't want to say that if you seriously believe some proposal about homosexuality will benefit the majority, that you can't post that idea. I merely restate the last part of my previous paragraph -- if you propose it then explain how it would directly benefit a majority of people and society rather than just gays/gay society. This means that outlawing gay marriage because it will force Christians to "accept" gay marriage or force Christians to "redefine" marriage -- those do not show any direct benefit for a majority of people or society. Remember this is how we might improve the morals of society in general, not issues that really only apply to a minority.

Twelve References to "gay." And you write that you don't want this to be a gay thread. Yet, another one.

Gay culture should remain in gay culture and the gay comunity. Including same-gender marriage and every other form of same-gender sex acts. Unfortunately, the gay agenda wants it taught to everyone elses children in the "public" school system.

IF, that happens, then there should be laws that opposition to gay sex and gay culture be taught side by side with the curriculum of gay propaganda.

Or else a seperation of sexual orientaion and state.

 

[Ectezus]

Gay culture

gay agenda

gay propaganda

lol... only in america...
And here I was thinking the only difference was that homosexual’s simply LOVE men instead of women. 2 letter difference...
America is losing their number 1 position in the world fast and yet they are worrying about the secret gay cult destroying their society.


As for morals, I believe morals simply adapt to cultural standards. They have never been the same and never will be. Morals change because the world changes. Some good ones stay, like don't kill others because these also make perfectly sense in an evolutionary point of view.

 

[jayem]

So my question is what would you do, if you had the power, to make America more moral?

First, I'd have everyone respect themselves and others likewise. And then, I'd have everyone mind their own business.

 

[Bombila]

Pet peeve:

Perhaps you could specify in the title that you specifically mean US American society.

So my question is what would you do, if you had the power, to make America more moral?

Otherwise, some of us might mistakenly think you meant society in general, worldwide.

 

[andross77]

lol... only in america...
And here I was thinking the only difference was that homosexual’s simply LOVE men instead of women. 2 letter difference...
America is losing their number 1 position in the world fast and yet they are worrying about the secret gay cult destroying their society.


As for morals, I believe morals simply adapt to cultural standards. They have never been the same and never will be. Morals change because the world changes. Some good ones stay, like don't kill others because these also make perfectly sense in an evolutionary point of view.

what moral standard do you use to say that not killing people is "good"? There are cultures where killing is acceptable and "normal."

 

[andross77]

First, I'd have everyone respect themselves and others likewise. And then, I'd have everyone mind their own business.

too bad everyone is bound to a sin nature and so this would spin out of control and never work.

 

[Belk]

what moral standard do you use to say that not killing people is "good"? There are cultures where killing is acceptable and "normal."

What culture is that?

 

[lawtonfogle]

what moral standard do you use to say that not killing people is "good"? There are cultures where killing is acceptable and "normal."

Killing certain groups, yes. But what culture is killing the group in power acceptable. Maybe one where everybody thinks death is a good thing, but such cultures would not be long for this world.

 

[Joachim]

By electing more politicians like these men


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Taylor_(Mississippi)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Marshall_(Georgia_politician)


And so on and so forth

 

[selfinflikted]

First, I'd have everyone respect themselves and others likewise. And then, I'd have everyone mind their own business.

^This, in a nutshell.

 

[Ectezus]

what moral standard do you use to say that not killing people is "good"? There are cultures where killing is acceptable and "normal."

Andross, I wrote an answer to your question but it got rather long and thought it would be more interesting as a debate question in a sepperate topic.

The topic is here: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7348741
My view regarding your question can be found inside.
Hope it satisfies you.

 

[andross77]

What culture is that?

The Auca Indians for example only a generation ago. There are other tribes in the Amazon that this is the same for.

 

[Garyzenuf]

First, I'd have everyone respect themselves and others likewise. And then, I'd have everyone mind their own business.

too bad everyone is bound to a sin nature and so this would spin out of control and never work.

In that case I'd have a belief-system that invokes blind adherence to such a soul killing set of tenets that leads one to hating yourself for no reason whatsoever be found morally retarding and would there for be made illegal. (For the betterment of the human species mental well-being of course).

*

 

[andross77]

Killing certain groups, yes. But what culture is killing the group in power acceptable. Maybe one where everybody thinks death is a good thing, but such cultures would not be long for this world.

So what if someone wanted to kill one of your family members? would it be ok or wrong?

 

[Skaloop]

The Auca Indians for example only a generation ago. There are other tribes in the Amazon that this is the same for.

The Auca did not kill idniscriminantly, and killing was not always "good."

Killing an enemy was OK for them, just as it is for us now. Killing an aggressor was OK for them, just as it is for us now. Killing someone who kills your kin was OK for them just as it is for us now.

Aside from having a broader definition of what constitutes a killable offense, their killing was based on pretty much the same moral perspective as ours.

 

[lawtonfogle]

So what if someone wanted to kill one of your family members? would it be ok or wrong?

Under Pathos, it would be wrong.
Under Ethos, given our current framework, it would be wrong.
Under Logos, I see not inherent problem (not that given examples would not have their own) giving it a quick glance. For many though, they can work with Logos and declare it wrong, but I tend to be a bit to solipsistic to state that it will always be such.

Under my own way of deciding right and wrong (I call it my own way not because I invented it, but because I rarely see others use it, and I know no direct name, though I would think it is a gestalt of Deontology and Divine Command Morality, at least simplified) it would depend upon why you wanted to kill them. Were they trying to kill you and you wanted to kill them to defend yourself? Were you wanting to kill them for fun? It depends upon the why.

 

[Everlasting33]

First, I'd have everyone respect themselves and others likewise. And then, I'd have everyone mind their own business.

This sounds like moral relativism and I find that we shouldn't be afraid to tell people that there is an objective truth. Generally, to mind your own business is to turn apathetic and this isn't what I want America or the world to be.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"If no set of moral ideas were better than another, there would be no sense in preferring civilised morality to Nazi morality. The moment you say one lot of morals is better than another, you are in fact measuring them by an ultimate standard." C.S. Lewis[/FONT]

 

[ke1985]

This sounds like moral relativism and I find that we shouldn't be afraid to tell people that there is an objective truth. Generally, to mind your own business is to turn apathetic and this isn't what I want America or the world to be.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"If no set of moral ideas were better than another, there would be no sense in preferring civilised morality to Nazi morality. The moment you say one lot of morals is better than another, you are in fact measuring them by an ultimate standard." C.S. Lewis[/FONT]

good quote.

OP:Morals don't change, people do.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

There are a few here who say that gay marriage needs to be prevented to keep society from the slippery slope of "anything goes". Personally, I can't see the logic -- gay marriage actually has at its heart the idea that people have one sexual partner as opposed to many and would appear to be an attempt to make gay "culture" more moral. And even then, it still really directly effects a very minor percentage of Americans. In fact, to many of us it appears there many Fundamentalists try to scapegoat gays in order to ignore all the non-gay morality problems that actually effect their lives.

So my question is what would you do, if you had the power, to make America more moral? What type of things would you do to combat the issues that the whole "gay marriage" debate glosses over -- things like promiscuity, teenage pregnancy, high divorce rates, pornography, etc? And please explain how your proposals would directly benefit a majority of the people and society.

I'd appreciate this not turning into another gay debate thread though, at the same time, I don't want to say that if you seriously believe some proposal about homosexuality will benefit the majority, that you can't post that idea. I merely restate the last part of my previous paragraph -- if you propose it then explain how it would directly benefit a majority of people and society rather than just gays/gay society. This means that outlawing gay marriage because it will force Christians to "accept" gay marriage or force Christians to "redefine" marriage -- those do not show any direct benefit for a majority of people or society. Remember this is how we might improve the morals of society in general, not issues that really only apply to a minority.

Personally I think the only way we will clean up the problem of so called gay marriage is with divorce reform. The reason why gay marriage is considered is because our current state of marriage and divorce is so horrible that we have no identity with good family values anymore. I could almost guarantee that if humans had a good hold on the importance and responsibility of good family structure and moral that we would not even be in the position we are today with gay marriage. But with a country and media that justifies the leaving of ones spouse for the most ludicrous reasons as well as the extreme easiness of getting re-married at the drop of a pin ,we reap what we sow

No-Fault divorce I believe is the number 1 thing that is killing our society today. A reform in family teaching and values(teaching at an early age) is the only way of draining this huge nasty boil we have caused in society. And only then can the issue of gay marriage be brought up. Otherwise we look like hypocrites.

Sometimes having too many choices in life is a bad thing. And it would force married couples to get along with each other and grow up. Once adults become more disciplined in they're responsibility's they will become more able to create successful and loving families.