How would you explain to a life-long atheist what it's like to have a relationship with God?

[TruthSeek3r]

Suppose that person X is a life-long agnostic/atheist who is skeptical of anything that is claimed to be supernatural/non-physical.

How would you explain to person X what it's like to have a personal relationship with God?

Here are a few more specific questions:

• When does the relationship begin?
• How do you know that the relationship has begun? Is there some specific event that makes the beginning of the relationship obvious?
• Is this relationship a two-way interaction? Does God speak to you in supernatural ways, for example?
• Does this "relationship with God" involve having supernatural experiences with God on a frequent basis?
• How do you know that this "relationship" is real and not just your brain playing tricks on you? How do you know that a real God is genuinely having a personal relationship with you?

How would you answer these questions to person X, a life-long agnostic/atheist?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I wouldn't. Someone "who is skeptical of anything that is claimed to be supernatural/non-physical" should first realize that a God exists before one can talk about the ways this God interacts with us.

Otherwise you will be like someone talking about what it's like to have a relationship with Santa Claus.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I wouldn't. Someone "who is skeptical of anything that is claimed to be supernatural/non-physical" should first realize that a God exists before one can talk about the ways this God interacts with us.

Otherwise you will be like someone talking about what it's like to have a relationship with Santa Claus.

How would you convince person X that God exists in the first place then?

 

[Daniel9v9]

I was born and raised Pentecostal, so I understand how it can be natural for many to speak of God in terms of being in a personal relationship with Him. The biggest problem with this, besides the fact that this is not the language the Bible itself uses, is that it's subjective and the same arguments could and often are made by non-Christians, such as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

I would instead begin and end with the objective person and works of Jesus Christ, who is God in flesh. In a sense, it's wrong to say that no one has ever seen God, for He literally walked and talked among us in the person of Jesus, and His works recorded for us testify to the truth that He is indeed God. In other words, we should proclaim Christ and Him crucified.

When we begin with the objective person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ, then we can consider what this means to us, and how we are in a right relationship with Him — that is, forgiven, set free, and adopted by God, and given the gift of His Holy Spirit who conforms us into His Son. In short, we ought to begin and end with Christ.

 

[childeye 2]

How would you convince person X that God exists in the first place then?

I use the scriptural definition of the source of the power that created all things. Most atheists accept that everything did not come out of nothing. Then the issue becomes is the source of energy a thing or a Person. That's where the moral/immoral debate begins and whether Love/compassion is the attribute of a higher intellect.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

When we begin with the objective person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ, then we can consider what this means to us, and how we are in a right relationship with Him — that is, forgiven, set free, and adopted by God, and given the gift of His Holy Spirit who conforms us into His Son. In short, we ought to begin and end with Christ.

So it's just intellectual beliefs inferred from historical data (aka apologetics)? No real relationship? Just armchair arguments and beliefs and that's it?

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I use the scriptural definition of the source of the power that created all things. Most atheists accept that everything did not come out of nothing. Then the issue becomes is the source of energy a thing or a Person. That's where the moral/immoral debate begins and whether Love/compassion is the attribute of a higher intellect.

I honestly don't want this thread to turn into a discussion on apologetics. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that person X says "sure, you have a good point, I'm willing to concede that some supernatural creator of all this might be real". How would you then move on and answer the actual questions that were asked in post #1?

 

[jacks]

I don't think there is any one answer to your questions. Different people have different experiences. You could say how it is for you, but emphasis that his experience may be not be the same. Some people easily believe in God while others couldn't be convinced even if a miracle happened to them directly. Perhaps the best way is to have "X" ask God directly for verification (even though he doesn't believe) and not rely on others to convince him. Those discussions often turn into arguments anyway, rather than truly being a means to seek the truth.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

How would you convince person X that God exists in the first place then?

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You might not like apologetics, but even Bart Ehrman - an atheistic NT scholar and very well known among atheists) - admitted: "One of the most certain facts of history is that Jesus was crucified on orders of the Roman prefect of Judea, Pontius Pilate".

From there we can build a solid case for the resurrection.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

By the resurrection of Jesus Christ. You might not like apologetics, but even Bart Ehrman - an atheistic NT scholar and very well known among atheists) - admitted: "One of the most certain facts of history is that Jesus was crucified on orders of the Roman prefect of Judea, Pontius Pilate".

From there we can build a solid case for the resurrection.

I never said that I don't like apologetics. I'm just saying that it would be off-topic (or at the very least, not the main topic) on this thread. Even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that there is compelling evidence to believe in a historical resurrection of Jesus, how do you move on from that to answering the questions asked in post #1?

If the resurrection of Jesus was supernatural, does that mean that a personal relationship with Jesus & God is also supernatural?

 

[childeye 2]

I honestly don't want this thread to turn into a discussion on apologetics. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that person X says "sure, you have a good point, I'm willing to concede that some supernatural creator of all this might be real". How would you then move on and answer the actual questions that were asked in post #1?

The articulation in your questions make them difficult to answer as posed. but I'll try to answer according to what I think you mean to ask.

• When does the relationship begin?
• When God initiates an interaction.

• How do you know that the relationship has begun? Is there some specific event that makes the beginning of the relationship obvious?
• It usually begins by believing the Gospel, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. But events in our lives can sometimes force us to hope and seek. I would say generally it's less than obvious at first, but I can't say that's always the case. Events draw us, is how I would describe my experience.
• 
  
• Is this relationship a two-way interaction? Does God speak to you in supernatural ways, for example?
• Yes, as a Christian, there is the Holy Spirit that speaks to me in my thoughts, sometimes in words, but also with imagery. Otherwise, I'd say it's difficult to discern God from my own sentience and/or conscience, since His Spirit is my sentience. It's not two-way in my experience. I can ask questions, but it usually takes days or sometimes weeks to get an answer.

• Does this "relationship with God" involve having supernatural experiences with God on a frequent basis?
• Supernatural experiences happen, for some more often than others. But mostly I would say it's a change in the way I think which transforms my Character. As I said, God is our sentience and/or conscience.
• 
  
• How do you know that this "relationship" is real and not just your brain playing tricks on you? How do you know that a real God is genuinely having a personal relationship with you?
• If you know what the term God means, then God can only be real axiomatically. As I said earlier, it would be difficult if not impossible to discern God as our sentience and/or conscience. God has to initiate it. To understand this, it's helpful to have the wisdom to understand the Human psyche and how it became corruptible. The transformation from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind is proof.
• 
  
• I'll give you a simple example of the Holy Spirit working in my everyday life. I'm driving down the highway, and this person cuts me off and suddenly begins to brake. I get angry and I start complaining to myself about the driver.
• 
  
• The Holy Spirit then says my name in my own thoughts, and tells me, "Calm down, this person has to get off on the next exit and you've done this same thing yourself before. Besides, not everyone may be as good a driver as you. This person is an old Lady and she's doing her best". I then get a look at the driver as they get off the highway and sure enough, there's an old lady leaning forward gripping the wheel as if she's holding on for dear life.
• 
  
• The holy Spirit convicts me of sin, and after so many corrections, that Character which is the knowledge of God becomes the norm.
• <--What's up with these dots? I can't seem to get rid of them.

 

[Daniel9v9]

So it's just intellectual beliefs inferred from historical data (aka apologetics)? No real relationship? Just armchair arguments and beliefs and that's it?

Absolutely not! What I'm saying is that God works in history and outside of us, and this is what God's Word calls us to proclaim: Jesus by means of His Word. By this, I don't mean apologetics, but confessing the truth of our Lord in simplicity.

When we read and teach God's Word, it is the very words of God that have the power to create faith, so it's hardly mere intellectualism — For in His Word is revealed God's love for us through His Son!

Simply, we should always point people to God's Word, for God's Word is about Jesus, and it's only through Jesus that it is about us. This is to say, I don't think it's fruitful to proclaim God void of Christ and His Word. We should always begin and end with Jesus.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Suppose that person X is a life-long agnostic/atheist who is skeptical of anything that is claimed to be supernatural/non-physical.

How would you explain to person X what it's like to have a personal relationship with God?

Here are a few more specific questions:

• When does the relationship begin?
• How do you know that the relationship has begun? Is there some specific event that makes the beginning of the relationship obvious?
• Is this relationship a two-way interaction? Does God speak to you in supernatural ways, for example?
• Does this "relationship with God" involve having supernatural experiences with God on a frequent basis?
• How do you know that this "relationship" is real and not just your brain playing tricks on you? How do you know that a real God is genuinely having a personal relationship with you?

How would you answer these questions to person X, a life-long agnostic/atheist?

1

Suppose that person X is a life-long agnostic/atheist who is skeptical of anything that is claimed to be supernatural/non-physical.

How would you explain to person X what it's like to have a personal relationship with God?

Here are a few more specific questions:

• When does the relationship begin?
• How do you know that the relationship has begun? Is there some specific event that makes the beginning of the relationship obvious?
• Is this relationship a two-way interaction? Does God speak to you in supernatural ways, for example?
• Does this "relationship with God" involve having supernatural experiences with God on a frequent basis?
• How do you know that this "relationship" is real and not just your brain playing tricks on you? How do you know that a real God is genuinely having a personal relationship with you?

How would you answer these questions to person X, a life-long agnostic/atheist?

I tried on numerous occasions having a general conversation or oftentimes just expressing who God is or my opinion on their misunderstandings of scripture.
They don't want to hear it, are very argumentative, downright rude, and somewhat vulgar - and depending what side you're on is how aggressive they are. Question such as those that you have listed are question they will / would / have used to try to make one seem like an idiot who believes in an invisible sky God, who you wouldn't know anything about unless another idiot taught you and name you as such.

I would not have that and try not to have any conversation with an atheist - they have heard the gospel, they feel they know enough scripture to say it contradicts itself. You should see some of the cartoons and vulgarness of words they say and post concerning God and Christ . They've made their choice !

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Absolutely not! What I'm saying is that God works in history and outside of us, and this is what God's Word calls us to proclaim: Jesus by means of His Word. By this, I don't mean apologetics, but confessing the truth of our Lord in simplicity.

When we read and teach God's Word, it is the very words of God that have the power to create faith, so it's hardly mere intellectualism — For in His Word is revealed God's love for us through His Son!

Simply, we should always point people to God's Word, for God's Word is about Jesus, and it's only through Jesus that it is about us. This is to say, I don't think it's fruitful to proclaim God void of Christ and His Word. We should always begin and end with Jesus.

I still don't get it. How does this answer the questions in post #1?

What I gather from what you just said is that you suggest that we should (1) lead people to read the Bible and (2) proclaim that the resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact (I honestly fail to see how you would be able to substantiate this claim without apologetics).

How is any of this helpful to person X (a life-long agnostic/atheist)?

What does any of this have to do with having an actual personal relationship with God?

 

[TruthSeek3r]

1


I tried on numerous occasions having a general conversation or oftentimes just expressing who God is or my opinion on their misunderstandings of scripture.
They don't want to hear it, are very argumentative, downright rude, and somewhat vulgar - and depending what side you're on is how aggressive they are. Question such as those that you have listed are question they will / would / have used to try to make one seem like an idiot who believes in an invisible sky God, who you wouldn't know anything about unless another idiot taught you and name you as such.

I would not have that and try not to have any conversation with an atheist - they have heard the gospel, they feel they know enough scripture to say it contradicts itself. You should see some of the cartoons and vulgarness of words they say and post concerning God and Christ . They've made their choice !

It's a shame that such close-minded and disrespectful atheists exist, but not everyone is like that. An atheist that I personally respect a lot because of their intelligence and courtesy is Alex O'Connor. Here is a fascinating debate between Alex and Catholic apologist Trent Horn:

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I never said that I don't like apologetics. I'm just saying that it would off-topic (or at the very least, not the main topic) on this thread. Even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that there is compelling evidence to believe in a historical resurrection of Jesus, how do you move on from that to answering the questions asked in post #1?

If the resurrection of Jesus was supernatural, does that mean that a personal relationship with Jesus & God is also supernatural?

I'm not sure if I would say that the personal relationship to God is supernatural. Our "normal" relationships can also be very different. For example, when you have a pen pal or talk to a friend on the phone then it's not supernatural, and our relationship with God is quite similar to that. We cannot see God, but we can talk to him (like on the phone) and he responds (often) through the written word, the Bible, like a pen pal.
There are supernatural aspects to our relationship with God though, because God interacts in various ways with us that people cannot do.

The answers to the questions you asked in #1 may differ from person to person because our relationship with God is unique and individual. However, I think it is fair to say that Christianity is not based on feelings. Similarly to "normal" relationships it doesn't depend on some warm and fuzzy feeling but on the knowledge and experience that your friend is really your friend.
Allow me to answer your questions according to my personal knowledge and experience.

• When does the relationship begin?

Sin is like a chasm between God and man. Because of his holiness God cannot have a real relationship with the natural human being. Jesus Christ bridged that chasm by the cross. His death and resurrection justifies those who believe in him, and only through Jesus we have access to the Father, allowing us to have a real relationship with God. When we put our faith in Jesus we become children of the living God, and that is when our relationship with him begins.

• How do you know that the relationship has begun? Is there some specific event that makes the beginning of the relationship obvious?

Simply put: it becomes obvious by your desire to talk to God. Non-Christians don't have that desire, but when you have the Holy Spirit you will want to talk to your heavenly Father.
And without communication there is not much of a relationship, right?

• Is this relationship a two-way interaction? Does God speak to you in supernatural ways, for example?

Our relationship with God is certainly a two-way interaction, although there are times where God just listens. He speaks in various ways to us - in the Bible, through other people and even through circumstances. God opens doors and closes doors to lead us. His Spirit is very skilled in putting Bible verses into our mind that we need in a certain situation.

• Does this "relationship with God" involve having supernatural experiences with God on a frequent basis?

I guess the answer to this question depends on what you define as "supernatural". I have experienced real miracles in my life, but when I look back at my life I see God's guidance in many more occasions and situations.
"Supernatural experiences" as an atheist would define it are not frequent though. God wants us to be humble servants and not puffed up people.

• How do you know that this "relationship" is real and not just your brain playing tricks on you? How do you know that a real God is genuinely having a personal relationship with you?

How do you know that your friend has a relationship with you? By knowing that he is real and by the experience that the things he says prove sincere.
When we commit to God and simply trust him then we will experience that he does everything he promised. We will notice that our prayers get answered - not always the way we expect it, but they do get answered. And while our relationship with God doesn't depend on any feeling there is actually something God gives us that nothing else in the world is able to give us: a kind of inner peace and serenity that exceeds every imagination.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I still don't get it. How does this answer the questions in post #1?

What I gather from what you just said is that you suggest that we should (1) lead people to read the Bible and (2) proclaim that the resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact (I honestly fail to see how you would be able to substantiate this claim without apologetics).

How is any of this helpful to person X (a life-long agnostic/atheist)?

What does any of this have to do with having an actual personal relationship with God?

It has everything to do with this. The Bible is not a dead word, but it is the true and living words of God, breathed by the Holy Spirit, that testify to Christ who suffered and died for us, and that may grant us faith to believe in Jesus and so be born again and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Simply: Where do we hear the words of Jesus right now? In the Bible. Those are words that are always true, relevant, and objective. By what means does God promise to grant us the Holy Spirit? Through His Word.

And this is the point: A relationship with God is not some abstract thing inside of us, but it's a true objective reality outside of us — God's love and His promises for us are given to us from the outside through His Word, and that is of great comfort. That is, I know that Jesus died for me, that He loves me, keeps me, sustains me, hears my prayers, guides me, and changes me, because He promises this in His Word, and His promises are firm.

To put all of this a bit more forcefully, a Mormon could make the same claims if we're only talking about personal internal experiences, but they cannot claim the same about Christ. So the difference is Jesus.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

It has everything to do with this. The Bible is not a dead word, but it is the true and living words of God, breathed by the Holy Spirit, that testify to Christ who suffered and died for us, and that may grant us faith to believe in Jesus and so be born again and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean by "the true and living words of God". Sounds very poetic, but what does it mean in reality? And why should person X, a life-long agnostic/atheist, believe that?

Simply: Where do we hear the words of Jesus right now? In the Bible. Those are words that are always true, relevant, and objective. By what means does God promise to grant us the Holy Spirit? Through His Word.

Why would person X have any reason whatsoever to believe that? How would you prove to person X that those are words that are "always true, relevant, and objective"?

And this is the point: A relationship with God is not some abstract thing inside of us, but it's a true objective reality outside of us — God's love and His promises for us are given to us from the outside through His Word, and that is of great comfort. That is, I know that Jesus died for me, that He loves me, keeps me, sustains me, hears my prayers, guides me, and changes me, because He promises this in His Word, and His promises are firm.

"I know that Jesus died for me, that He loves me, keeps me, sustains me, hears my prayers, guides me, and changes me, because He promises this in His Word, and His promises are firm." - again, "knowledge" (beliefs, to be accurate), information, things that you believe. Just armchair beliefs. Where is the relationship?

To put all of this a bit more forcefully, a Mormon could make the same claims if we're only talking about personal internal experiences, but they cannot claim the same about Christ. So the difference is Jesus.

How is this even substantiated? I know a few Latter-day Saints that would strongly beg to differ. As an example, here is a video from a LDS that I respect a lot where he talks about Christ:

And here is a video about his testimony:

 

[Sheila Davis]

It's a shame that such close-minded and disrespectful atheists exist, but not everyone is like that. An atheist that I personally respect a lot because of their intelligence and courtesy is Alex O'Connor. Here is a fascinating debate between Alex and Catholic apologist Trent Horn:

1 in a 1,000 ??? That is why scripture is about faith because believers since Christ was in the flesh on earth cannot prove as an absolute the existence of God the Father and very little proof Christ walked the Earth. Neither can the non-believer prove that God doesn't exist. I understand why atheist don't believe and the points they try to make. I just disagree with them - I see things differently - I believe in God and I have believed in him since I was around four years old or maybe younger.

 

[Cute Peonies]

When does the relationship begin?

My relationship with God started when I wanted to know my purpose here on earth. I had questions like "Why am I here? What am I supposed to be doing? What's the next move? Where should I go? etc"
I began reading scriptures and the answers came throughout the weeks, months.

How do you know that the relationship has begun? Is there some specific event that makes the beginning of the relationship obvious?

The same thing when you're start dating someone. You spend time with him, you talk to him, you listen to him, he's answering your prayers, he's guiding you daily, etc. When I say "him/he" I'm talking about God The Holy Spirit.

Is this relationship a two-way interaction? Does God speak to you in supernatural ways, for example?

Any relationship should be a two-way interaction otherwise it would be toxic and a waste of time. And yes God speaks in supernatural ways especially when his Holy Spirit reveals things to you. The revelation can come suddenly in many different forms and I'm always in awe when it happens. My reaction is usually "God I know it was you, I see what you did there" xD

Does this "relationship with God" involve having supernatural experiences with God on a frequent basis?

On a frequent basis like daily? Weekly?
Mine come depending on my prayer life. Nothing supernatural will happen if you don't bother communicating with God. It's necessary to have an intimate relationship with Him.

How do you know that this "relationship" is real and not just your brain playing tricks on you? How do you know that a real God is genuinely having a personal relationship with you?

When you start acting different out of nowhere and you're like "is this really me?" then you know that the Holy Spirit dwells in you. For example, in my teenage years I used to criticise religious people thinking that their life must be boring because all they do is talk about God and listen to worship music. Little did I know that I would do it myself one day.

The old me would have never done what I'm doing right now. Funny thing, yesterday I talked with my brother who's not saved and he told me that I should consider becoming a preacher or something haha