How will Jews get into heaven?

[BABerean2]

Some Jews will be saved under the covenant of the law at the end of days, those who survive the tribulation.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The Old Covenant was fulfilled at the Cross and made obsolete.
The veil was ripped in half showing that God is finished with the Old Covenant.
No one is going to repair that veil and renew animal sacrifices that will be pleasing to God.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(The Old covenant is now "obsolete". God is not going back to an obsolete covenant with Moses as the mediator, instead of Christ.)

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(The New Covenant is "everlasting". It is not coming to an end before the return of Christ.)

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant.


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

On the day of Pentecost 3,000 of the house of Israel became the first members of the New Covenant of Christ.

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[Razare]

The Old Covenant was fulfilled at the Cross and made obsolete.

That demonstrates you're ignorant.

Paul, the best teacher on grace, describes how the law works himself when he says it does not apply to Christians:

Romans 3:19 - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

But according to you, none are under the law and none are condemned because the law was done away with. And then Paul's statement here is false too according to you because he said, "them who are under the law"... Paul must not know what he is talking about since no one is under the law according to you.

Hebrews 8:13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

In scripture, you will not find a moment where the law disappeared in the NT, unless it is prophecy about the future such as Revelation. When Hebrews was written, the law was still in effect because it had not disappeared according to that verse. The veil was torn, but the law still stands to serve its purpose to condemn all.

This is why we fulfill the law IN Christ, not because Christ eliminated the law, but that he took our punishment for the law. And in him, the law does not touch us, but outside of him, it would condemn us eternally. And this is the law of salvation through Christ, that those who have not accepted him are condemned because they have not accepted him, but this condemnation is wrought by the law which condemns all. So it is only through him because only through him are we free of the law.

If we were free of the law apart from Christ because of what Christ did, then none are condemned and it would not matter what they believe due to Romans 5:13 ... where there is no law, there is no transgression. That would mean, if the law was gone because of Christ, none are condemned after his atonement. This would be universalism.

 

[BABerean2]

That demonstrates you're ignorant.

Paul, the best teacher on grace, describes how the law works himself when he says it does not apply to Christians:

Romans 3:19 - Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

But according to you, none are under the law and none are condemned because the law was done away with. And then Paul's statement here is false too according to you because he said, "them who are under the law"... Paul must not know what he is talking about since no one is under the law according to you.

Hebrews 8:13 - By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

In scripture, you will not find a moment where the law disappeared in the NT, unless it is prophecy about the future such as Revelation. When Hebrews was written, the law was still in effect because it had not disappeared according to that verse. The veil was torn, but the law still stands to serve its purpose to condemn all.

This is why we fulfill the law IN Christ, not because Christ eliminated the law, but that he took our punishment for the law. And in him, the law does not touch us, but outside of him, it would condemn us eternally. And this is the law of salvation through Christ, that those who have not accepted him are condemned because they have not accepted him, but this condemnation is wrought by the law which condemns all. So it is only through him because only through him are we free of the law.

If we were free of the law apart from Christ because of what Christ did, then none are condemned and it would not matter what they believe due to Romans 5:13 ... where there is no law, there is no transgression. That would mean, if the law was gone because of Christ, none are condemned after his atonement. This would be universalism.

I never said Christ eliminated the Mosaic law.
He fulfilled it and that is exactly what He said.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

That little word "till" is also used by Paul.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


The Mosaic law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham, "until" the Seed could come to whom the promise was made.

The Mosaic law was fulfilled and made obsolete with Christ's last three words on the Cross.


Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Mat_27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(This was the moment at which God provided the proof that all had been fulfilled.)

Paul did describe the Jews as "under the law" and he called this a covenant of "bondage" in Galatians chapter 4.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.


He also made it clear that salvation did not come through the law.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Ignorance is ignoring what the scripture plainly says, in order to get John Darby's doctrine to work.

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[Razare]

He also made it clear that salvation did not come through the law.

Salvation was available to everyone under the Mosaic law, otherwise all Jews like David and Solomon would be lost eternally.

But the salvation was by faith of course, and not by the law itself, but by what the law pointed to.

In the tribulation, the covenant of the bride of Christ is not available. The covenants available revert to salvation by faith, while under the bondage of the law, just as salvation was available to Jews by faith, under the bondage of the law.

I could certainly understand more in this area, but I know enough to know some Jews are saved in the tribulation by faith, and these are essentially Messianic Jews that are in the tribulation, under the tribulation ministry which differs from the ministry of Christ and his bride on Earth.

 

[BABerean2]

Salvation was available to everyone under the Mosaic law, otherwise all Jews like David and Solomon would be lost eternally.

David was an adulterer and conspired to have Uriah killed so he could have his wife. He should have been stoned under the Mosaic law. His salvation had nothing to do with the Law of Moses. It was through his faith.

God is not going back to an obsolete covenant with Moses as the mediator, instead of Christ.

Being grafted into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ, which is a symbol of the New Covenant Church, is the only way of salvation until the Second Coming of Christ.

This is proven to be true by the verse below.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Nobody has ever gained salvation by keeping the Law of Moses.
Only Christ ever kept it.

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[1213]

Hey guys, since Jesus said only way to the father is through him, what does this mean for Jews please?

The Way said:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

So, they must be, or become righteous to get into eternal life.

 

[Pamelav]

The jews have defied God throughout their history and continue to do so. They have changed verses to blot out Jesus from the OT, but God foresaw this and gave us the Septuagint that they have been unable to corrupt. If they want to continue living as jews, they will have to accept Gods Just and Righteous Judgement on them.

So then anyone of the Jews who wants to seriously know scripture won't have the prophecies about Jesus. Then they couldn't know unless Jesus reveals Himself to them somehow thru other means. ?

 

[Freedom Now]

How will Jews get into heaven?



Well there is a story of one going there with a fiery chariot.

Then I have heard tell of another that he went up and a cloud hid him.

Then there said to be one that went to some different dimension of heaven,
not quite sure whether it was in the body or not.


It is going to be interesting to see , how God will get the Jews into heaven, I think.

 

[BABerean2]

It is going to be interesting to see , how God will get the Jews into heaven, I think.

Since the "Middle Wall of Separation" between all races of people was broken down at Calvary, why would you think God will now or in the future save people based on bloodline?


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.




Rom_2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

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[Geralt]

same conditions apply like everyone else.

Hey guys, since Jesus said only way to the father is through him, what does this mean for Jews please?

 

[Grafted In]

I believe they are devided into 2 groups.
The first group are those who accept Christ during this period of grace and I believe they will differ in no way from saved gentiles.
The second group are those who remain for the great tribulation. That group I understood little about.

 

[BABerean2]

I believe they are devided into 2 groups.
The first group are those who accept Christ during this period of grace and I believe they will differ in no way from saved gentiles.
The second group are those who remain for the great tribulation. That group I understood little about.

We must get what we believe to line up with the text.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood, which ratifies the New Covenant, my blood shed on behalf of many, so that they may have their sins forgiven. (CJB)

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (The New Covenant was in effect during the first century.)
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (The Old Sinai covenant is now obsolete.)


Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, (The New Covenant does not end.)


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ( A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant of Christ.)


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[Freedom Now]

Since the "Middle Wall of Separation" between all races of people was broken down at Calvary, why would you think God will now or in the future save people based on bloodline?




.

Just curious, since you responded to my post.....

How do you get from my post that I think God will save people according to bloodline?

 

[BABerean2]

Just curious, since you responded to my post.....

How do you get from my post that I think God will save people according to bloodline?

If I have misunderstood you, I will have to apologize.

I often deal with Dispensationalists who claim God will end the period of Grace 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ and then go back to dealing with the modern descendants of Jacob under the Old covenant system.

If this is not your position, I am sorry for my mistake.

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[Grafted In]

We must get what we believe to line up with the text.

And....
How does your responce conflct with what I wrote, or are you simply clarifying my post, because we both seem to be saying the same thing.

 

[BABerean2]

I may have not understood you.
However, you seemed to be saying the period of Grace is not in effect during the tribulation.

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[Grafted In]

I may have not understood you.
However, you seemed to be saying the period of Grace is not in effect during the tribulation.

.

That is correct. That is my opinion.

 

[BABerean2]

That is correct. That is my opinion.

Then, how do you explain those under the Blood of the Lamb?


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant.


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[Grafted In]

I am not that well read on that particular point, but I'm more than willing to hear you out and, if convinced, change what I believe.

 

[BABerean2]

I am not that well read on that particular point, but I'm more than willing to hear you out and, if convinced, change what I believe.

Sir,

You are a pearl of great price. It is rare to find anyone here who is willing to do the same.

Claim made by some: The “Church” is not found after chapter four in the Book of Revelation.

Technically this is a true statement, but is misleading. The “Church” is not found in the first four chapters, either. The Capital “C” Church as we use the term today is not found at all in the Book of Revelation, just as it is not found in several other New Testament books. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are given in the book. However, we do find in Revelation 12:11 those under the Blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant. Those promoting John Darby’s system must ignore this verse to make their doctrine work.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The New Covenant of Christ is "everlasting".
Therefore, the age of Grace does not come to an end.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(It was in effect during the first century.)

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(God is not going back to the obsolete Sinai covenant.)

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, (The New Covenant does not end.)


The Greek word “hagios” is translated to “saint” throughout the New Testament. It is mainly used to refer to those in Christ. Some who say these saints in the Book of Revelation are “tribulation saints” are producing a term not found in the text.

The following two verses prove that the word “saint” can refer to Christians in the Book of
Revelation.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Here we find the Church being described as “saints”.

Therefore, the claim that “the Church” is not found after Revelation chapter 4 does not hold water.
However, it is often used by those who are attempting to validate the Dispensational system of interpretation brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War.

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

A Baptist speaks on the History of Dispensationalism in America
Ernest Reisinger
http://founders.org/fj09/the-history-of-dispensationalism-in-america/

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26


http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418