How Unequal Can America Get Before We Snap?

rambot · Oct 19, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's just the way it is. Of course the individual can usually prosper no matter how poor he starts out. All it takes is a good plan and the courage to work the plan. A little luck doesn't hurt either.

I think the problem is the hopelessness of the "That's just the way it is". Point is, it doesn't HAVE TO be that way.
It also takes a decent work ethic. This comes about most frequently in situations when people have healthy family life, good support networks, healthy coping skills, no real trauma, no addictions issues, appropriate work life balance, AND a level of intellect (and some amount of interest) in a career that, for some arbitrary reason, is valued more to society than another career.

That whole "It just takes hard work, and a little luck" ethos that was probably, closer to being true 100 years ago, it antiquated and not applicable in the current economic climate.

Received · Oct 19, 2015

rambot said:
I think the problem is the hopelessness of the "That's just the way it is". Point is, it doesn't HAVE TO be that way.
It also takes a decent work ethic. This comes about most frequently in situations when people have healthy family life, good support networks, healthy coping skills, no real trauma, no addictions issues, appropriate work life balance, AND a level of intellect (and some amount of interest) in a career that, for some arbitrary reason, is valued more to society than another career.

That whole "It just takes hard work, and a little luck" ethos that was probably, closer to being true 100 years ago, it antiquated and not applicable in the current economic climate.

In a climate where half of the top 1% have their wealth inherited, this is an economy of "it takes a lot of luck, and a little work" for the people who really count.

The Antigrrrl · Oct 19, 2015

rambot said:
I think the problem is the hopelessness of the "That's just the way it is". Point is, it doesn't HAVE TO be that way.
It also takes a decent work ethic. This comes about most frequently in situations when people have healthy family life, good support networks, healthy coping skills, no real trauma, no addictions issues, appropriate work life balance, AND a level of intellect (and some amount of interest) in a career that, for some arbitrary reason, is valued more to society than another career.

That whole "It just takes hard work, and a little luck" ethos that was probably, closer to being true 100 years ago, it antiquated and not applicable in the current economic climate.

At least half of that stuff is not money related but parent/ family related. Unless you want to institute a breeding program and controls on people with issues reproducing, there is no way to equalize outcome. No matter how much money you dump on the woman down the road from me she is going to continue to be a hideous mother with horrible taste in awful men. To give them an equal shot, they would need equal parenting and money cannot give that. The kids who truly succeed ( and not always necessarily monetarily but more importantly in contributing to society) are ones with stable families, and government subsidization has worked against stable families for the past 50 years. It has been nothing short of a disaster to poor families.

FreeinChrist · Oct 19, 2015

MOD HAT

A small clean up was done. Folks, keep it civil and do not insult

OldWiseGuy · Oct 19, 2015

rambot said:
I think the problem is the hopelessness of the "That's just the way it is". Point is, it doesn't HAVE TO be that way.
It also takes a decent work ethic. This comes about most frequently in situations when people have healthy family life, good support networks, healthy coping skills, no real trauma, no addictions issues, appropriate work life balance, AND a level of intellect (and some amount of interest) in a career that, for some arbitrary reason, is valued more to society than another career.

That whole "It just takes hard work, and a little luck" ethos that was probably, closer to being true 100 years ago, it antiquated and not applicable in the current economic climate.

I was referring to any given individual, not everyone.

Truth is there are too many people. Picture your working life as an escalator. You get on at the bottom earning low pay. If you don't jump, fall, or get pushed off chances are you'll prosper on the way up and get off in good financial shape. However, there are too many people choking the whole system, and more arriving every day.

Sadly too is that Madison Avenue and Washington D.C. have determined the criteria for success in America, and it does limit one.

Belk · Oct 19, 2015

The Antigrrrl said:
Considering all the "occupiers" with college degrees, how far in debt they are, and how market wise they are completely useless, why would anyone NOT guide their kids towards a trade? I would so much rather see my kid with a plumbers license than with a liberal arts degree.

How is business in Seattle lately?

Booming with low unemployment, an expanding housing market, and above average wages. Why?

alsughasoughaiuyfygh · Oct 19, 2015

OldWiseGuy · Oct 19, 2015

Smoke Jaguar said:
When the First Lady says, "Let them eat cake" then (beep) will hit the fan.

They won't eat her cake. School districts across the country are abandoning her 'healthy food for kids' programs. What a surprise.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 19, 2015

super animator said:
Fun fact, that quote is never said by the queen during the revolution.

"Forget Your Troubles Com'on Get Happy" wasn't written yet.

rambot · Oct 19, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
I was referring to any given individual, not everyone

Rest assured, I was ABSOLUTELY talking about the individual.

Truth is there are too many people. Picture your working life as an escalator. You get on at the bottom earning low pay. If you don't jump, fall, or get pushed off chances are you'll prosper on the way up and get off in good financial shape. However, there are too many people choking the whole system, and more arriving every day.

I think the problem is that the people in the penthouse have cut the cables of the elevator, forcing most people to go up the stairs; and more than a few of them to struggling going up the down elevator.

Sadly too is that Madison Avenue and Washington D.C. have determined the criteria for success in America, and it does limit one.

Agreed

rambot · Oct 19, 2015

The Antigrrrl said:
At least half of that stuff is not money related but parent/ family related.

You are EXACTLY right; almost all of it! We are creatures of our environment; having parents with limited capacities/faculties handicaps an individuals JUST AS much as those who have limited money.

Unless you want to institute a breeding program and controls on people with issues reproducing, there is no way to equalize outcome.

Iiiiii.... don't want to do that? The nature of societies is that this is how they are arranged; people who are blessed with strong, capable and supporting circumstances and those who suffer in this life for lacking those things.

No matter how much money you dump on the woman down the road from me she is going to continue to be a hideous mother with horrible taste in awful men.

Do you REALLY believe that? Cause I can guarantee that with the right amount of money, you CAN help out her child. If that money buys appropriate counselling, strong schools, social programs that allow children to be nurtured, you absolutely CAN have a positive affect on people's lives.

To give them an equal shot, they would need equal parenting and money cannot give that.

It's not ONLY parenting. Studies show that there is one common factor that EVERY kid whose been through intense trauma and been "successful" in their life share: (AT LEAST) one adult who is "irrationally crazy" about them.

The kids who truly succeed ( and not always necessarily monetarily but more importantly in contributing to society) are ones with stable families, and government subsidization has worked against stable families for the past 50 years.

Government subsidies have done absolutely no such thing. Mental health and systemic prejudices play a role too. How is being able to feed your child destabilizing?

OldWiseGuy · Oct 19, 2015

rambot said:
I think the problem is that the people in the penthouse have cut the cables of the elevator, forcing most people to go up the stairs; and more than a few of them to struggling going up the down elevator.

The individual can still prosper, but it takes an independent spirit. Sadly our educational system penalizes this. My brother-in-law wrote educational programs (lesson plans) for gifted and talented students, so he was pretty smart. He said that a child effectively loses their ability to learn as soon as they enter school. The first thing they learn is that all knowledge comes from the teacher, and to gain her or his approval they must accept that. Their efforts are directed more at fitting in with the others and pleasing the teacher than absorbing knowledge.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 19, 2015

rambot said:
It's not ONLY parenting. Studies show that there is one common factor that EVERY kid whose been through intense trauma and been "successful" in their life share: (AT LEAST) one adult who is "irrationally crazy" about them.

Thanks for this. It describes my mother.

nightflight · Oct 19, 2015

Remember though we live in a time and country where poor people are often well fed and have automobiles, smart phones, big screen tvs, and lots of other things much of the world would consider a luxury.

OldWiseGuy · Oct 19, 2015

nightflight said:
Remember though we live in a time and country where poor people are often well fed and have automobiles, smart phones, big screen tvs, and lots of other things much of the world would consider a luxury.

That's why I have no pity for them at all. Even the homeless street people are phonies.

The Antigrrrl · Oct 20, 2015

rambot said:
Do you REALLY believe that? Cause I can guarantee that with the right amount of money, you CAN help out her child. If that money buys appropriate counselling, strong schools, social programs that allow children to be nurtured, you absolutely CAN have a positive affect on people's lives.

It's not ONLY parenting. Studies show that there is one common factor that EVERY kid whose been through intense trauma and been "successful" in their life share: (AT LEAST) one adult who is "irrationally crazy" about them.

Government subsidies have done absolutely no such thing. Mental health and systemic prejudices play a role too. How is being able to feed your child destabilizing?

I know it to be true, according to her she brings in about the same as my family does. Money did not keep her from bringing somebody around her daughters who was on the registry with fully predictable results. Thank God the state finally took all her kids and placed them with family that is slightly less useless.

What kind of person goes out and has a child knowing they cannot even support themselves? This is not parenting material and yet we continue to subsidize it in my state with basically no strings attached.
Once is a mistake maybe but I personally know women who continue to have children, full well knowing they cannot feed them. This is what destabilizes families " I don't need no man, the government will pay for my kids!" No consequence to continuing to make cruddy choices, somebody else pays for it.

I had a friend growing up whose family was on assistance. Her mom got full college funding, still did not graduate and 4 out of her 5 kids remain on some form of state aid. The only one who isn't is because she married a good guy.

Again , I am not advocating doing away with welfare, just a realistic look at what works/ what doesn't and fixing what doesn't without people whining that you want to starve babies. Don't tell people who see abuse of the system on a day to day basis that the system is not broken.

nightflight · Oct 20, 2015

OldWiseGuy said:
That's why I have no pity for them at all. Even the homeless street people are phonies.

A lot of them are mentally ill. Some go to libraries to post on the internet.

amanuensis63 · Oct 20, 2015

nightflight said:
Remember though we live in a time and country where poor people are often well fed and have automobiles, smart phones, big screen tvs, and lots of other things much of the world would consider a luxury.

Sigh. Do we have to hear how good our poor people have it? Really? Millions did not have access to affordable healthcare. And I doubt VERY highly that you would want to live ONE DAY in the kind of places many of the poor in America live.

Is it better than sub-Saharan Africa? Probably. Is that our goal in the USA to be as good or better than Sub Saharan Africa levels of poverty?

Can we possibly set the bar lower for ourselves so that we don't have to worry about the rich giving up their privileged position?

amanuensis63 · Oct 20, 2015

nightflight said:
A lot of them are mentally ill.

Yes they are. Another failure of our moral fiber in the USA that we closed down the long-term mental hospitals but never funded the community level care centers that were necessary to help them.

StanMann · Oct 20, 2015

nightflight said:
Remember though we live in a time and country where poor people are often well fed and have automobiles, smart phones, big screen tvs, and lots of other things much of the world would consider a luxury.

Perhaps that's why every city in the US have cardboard cities with people living in the streets, where do they get the power from to run those big screen TV's?
I think you're living in a dream land, some people in the US live like people in the third world and not like people living in the richest country (in money not morals) in the world, if the US is a Christian country others might think it advisable to avoid Christianity like the plague because from where I'm sitting I don't think there are many Jesus following Christians in the US.

How Unequal Can America Get Before We Snap?

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