How to walk in the Spirit.

Sidon · Jun 7, 2021

fhansen said:
I tend towards the Jesus theology.

There is no such thing as "Jesus Theology".
Did you want to make some up?

Here is the reality.
We have the words of Jesus, as quoted by the NT.
Those Quotes are all given by Apostles or similar who wrote the Letters that were used to create Greek and Latin and other manuscripts, that were translated and revised into English Bibles, or other languages.
So, "theology, was not created while Jesus was alive.
This all happened later, when Paul showed up, and wrote most of the New Testament that became Church Doctrine.
He got it, not from the NT, as there was no NT when Paul was alive.
He created it.
Paul got it from Jesus, directly, and wrote it down, and that is what i teach.
"Pauline Theology".

Clare73 · Jun 7, 2021

Sidon said:
Saying that someone's teaching is "erroneous" is what you do when you have no way to disagree with it, that is honest or factual.

See the Do you have a "renewed mind"? thread.

Sidon · Jun 7, 2021

Clare73 said:
See the Do you have a "renewed mind"? thread.

Its a good Thread.
Lots of views.
Only a handful of arguments, and the arguments, are just what someone was taught, that conflict with what Paul teaches, that my Thread teaches.

Clare73 · Jun 7, 2021

Sidon said:
Its a good Thread.
Lots of views.
Only a handful of arguments, and the arguments, are just what someone was taught, that conflict with what Paul teaches, what my Thread teaches.

We already know that is where you are coming from. . .

However, in the following Paul teaches action to be taken by the saved; i.e., the righteousness of sanctification as a process of growing in holiness, which has no place in your teaching:

. . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness."
(Romans 6:16)

"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)

Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)

". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)

". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)

". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)

". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)

"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)

"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)

"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

The above have no place in your teaching because you do not rightly understand
the righteousness of justification as distinct from the righteouness of sanctification (holiness), and assume that sanctification (holiness) is given with justification, which the above shows to be in error.

Sidon · Jun 8, 2021

Clare73 said:
We already know that is where you are coming from. . .
However, in the following Paul teaches action to be taken by the saved;

You have no idea of "where Sidon is coming from".
You are a person who does not read GREEK, who likes to pretend you can use it to correct the Bible and other Believers.
That is the height of "fake", ministry.
Dont do that.
Also every verse you posted, to try to teach the "error of cain", Legalism, .. which is that , as you wrote.....what we must DO to be saved, is an insult to the Cross of Christ that is all that God accepts to save YOU.

Every verse you posted is a verse that is only related to how you are to behave, AFTER God saved you.

fhansen · Jun 8, 2021

Sidon said:
There is no such thing as "Jesus Theology".
Did you want to make some up?

Here is the reality.
We have the words of Jesus, as quoted by the NT.
Those Quotes are all given by Apostles or similar who wrote the Letters that were used to create Greek and Latin and other manuscripts, that were translated and revised into English Bibles, or other languages.
So, "theology, was not created while Jesus was alive.
This all happened later, when Paul showed up, and wrote most of the New Testament that became Church Doctrine.
He got it, not from the NT, as there was no NT when Paul was alive.
He created it.
Paul got it from Jesus, directly, and wrote it down, and that is what i teach.
"Pauline Theology".

Sorry, absolute tripe. To say that Jesus had no theology is to say He had no teaching about God. And to suggest that Paul did have some kind of precisely worked out and clearly set forth doctrine is to make out like he was writing a systematic catechism or something instead of a set of letters addressing various concerns at the time. None of the bible was intended that way, in fact, which is one reason why it's easily misunderstood, just as Paul's own words are as Peter affirms in his 2nd letter.

Clare73 · Jun 8, 2021

Sidon said:
You have no idea of "where Sidon is coming from".

Oh, but I do, from your posts. . .and it's troublesome.

Something is amiss.

You are a person who does not read GREEK, who likes to pretend you can use it to correct the Bible and other Believers.

We may be down to the bone here, to the heart of your erroneous defense; i.e., unseating the Greek itself for the sake of your contra-Biblical teaching.

Your issue is not with me, it's with the Greek dictionary. . .which you try to nullify for the sake of nullifying the following Pauline teaching, because it has no place in your teaching.

That is the height of "fake", ministry.
Don't do that.

Now if you can just convince everyone that the translation of Greek by today's Biblical scholars of Koine Greek, from which I take my translation of Greek, is in error, you can be the sole authority for the meaning of Scripture and declare the Pauline teaching presented below to be in error.

Also every verse you posted, to try to teach the "error of cain", Legalism,

And there you have it!
Paul is teaching the "error of cain,". . .and here we have an example of how I do know "where Sidon is coming from."

I rest my case.

Something is amiss (translate: something is rotten in Denmark).

.. which is that , as you wrote.....what we must DO to be saved,

STRAW MAN. . .that is not my argument, and you know it.

The argument is that those who are not engaged in the process of sanctification have no assurance that they are in fact saved. . .the NT presents salvation, then sanctification, in the Pauline Scriptures below, which you have just declared are the "error of cain."
Did Paul get your memo, because he presents salvation and sanctification as going together and without separation.
If you don't have one, then you don't have the other.

is an insult to the Cross of Christ that is all that God accepts to save YOU.

Every verse you posted is a verse that is only related to how you are to behave, AFTER God saved you.

Precisely. . .and that behavior is presented as action to be taken in a process of growth in holiness.

The following Pauline teaching, having no place in your teaching, presents action to be taken by the saved; that action being the righteousness of sanctification as a process of growing in holiness, which again has no place in your teaching:

. . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness."
(Romans 6:16)

"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)

Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)

". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)

". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)

". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)

". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)

"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)

"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)

"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

The word of God above has no place in your teaching because you do not rightly understand
the righteousness of justification as distinct from the righteouness of sanctification (holiness), and assume that sanctification (holiness) is given with justification, which the above shows to be in error.

Clare73 · Jun 8, 2021

fhansen said:
Sorry, absolute tripe.

Agreed!

To say that Jesus had no theology is to say He had no teaching about God. And to suggest that Paul did have some kind of precisely worked out and clearly set forth doctrine is to make out like he was writing a systematic catechism or something instead of a set of letters addressing various concerns at the time. None of the bible was intended that way, in fact,

Too much standard pablum, and not enough thorough study with consistent understanding of Scripture.

Actually, the book of Romans was written precisely for that purpose, to present the full gospel--God's plan of salvation and righteousness from God for mankind, Jew and Gentile alike, and he definitely accomplishes that purpose therein.

which is one reason why it's easily misunderstood, just as Paul's own words are as Peter affirms in his 2nd letter.

And Peter tells us why Paul's words are misunderstood, because they "are hard to understand"
(2 Peter 3:16), and not because they are systematic doctrine, and if you've ever waded through the doctrines of Romans 2, 5, 7, 9, bringing them all into consistency with the rest of Scripture, you'll agree.

Sidon · Jun 8, 2021

fhansen said:
Sorry, absolute tripe. To say that Jesus had no theology is to say He had no teaching about God. .

Jesus is God, so, He is above "theology", exactly as God is above the law.
What Jesus had to do was fulfill the law, as a human....and live a sinless life, also.
And He did just that, perfectly.
Had He not, then His sacrifice would not have been a "one time eternal " success.

Sidon · Jun 8, 2021

Clare73 said:
Oh, but I do, from your posts. . .and it's troublesome.
Something is amiss.

Here is what is "amiss"
You are on a "christian" forum, pretending to be a Greek text, authority, when in fact, you can't even read Greek.
So, what is "amiss", is defined by the word FAKE.

Dont follow greek translators.
And dont pretend to be a authority of a language you can't read.

ozso · Jun 8, 2021

I'm not a proponent of what Sidon teaches, as I'm still weighing that out. However I will say that lot of the verses used against it simply do not conclude in "or you'll lose your salvation and go to hell". While I haven't decided that the born-again can't lose their salvation, I do think that if it is possible, that it's not as easy as some make it out to be. There comes a point where it starts being over taught to where it loses credibility.

I'm still leaning more towards if a person has no regard for the behavior and actions that are what sanctification is about, then they probably aren't actually born again. Someone in this thread (or a similar one) said they know Christians who commit all kinds of heinous sins because they think they can't lose their salvation. And my thought is, they probably don't really have any salvation to lose to begin with. Even if I became 100% convinced that I could not lose my salvation no matter what, that would not have any bearing on my level of commitment. Really because my commitment isn't about me and what I get for it. It's about loving my Lord.

Clare73 · Jun 8, 2021

Clare73 said:
We may be down to the bone here, to the heart of your erroneous defense; i.e., unseating the Greek itself for the sake of your contra-Biblical teaching.
Your issue is not with me, it's with the Greek dictionary. . .which you try to nullify for the sake of nullifying the following Pauline teaching, because it has no place in your teaching.

Now if you can just convince everyone that the translation of Greek by today's
Biblical scholars of Koine Greek, from which I take my translation of Greek, is in error, you can be the sole authority for the meaning of Scripture and declare the Pauline teaching presented below to be in error.

The argument is that those who are not engaged in the process of sanctification have no assurance that they are in fact saved. . .the NT presents salvation, then sanctification, in
the Pauline Scriptures below, which you have just declared are the "error of cain."
Did Paul get your memo, because he
presents salvation and sanctification as going together and without separation.

If you don't have one, then you don't have the other.

Paul presents the behavior after salvation as action to be taken in a process of growth in holiness. . .which you consider the "error of Cain."

Sidon said:
Here is what is "amiss"
You are on a "christian" forum, pretending to be a Greek text, authority, when in fact, you can't even read Greek.
So, what is "amiss", is defined by the word FAKE.

Dont follow greek translators.

So unseating the Greek itself is the heart of your erroneous defense.

Something is terribly amiss (translate: something is terribly rotten in Denmark).

And dont pretend to be a authority of a language you can't read.

Don't need to be, I use the translations of Biblical Koine Greek scholars, which includes the word definitions from the Greek dictionary.

More failure to address the argument above.

Non-responsive.

Clare73 · Jun 8, 2021

MMXX said:
I'm not a proponent of what Sidon teaches, as I'm still weighing that out. However I will say that lot of the verses used against it simply
do not conclude in "or you'll lose your salvation and go to hell".

That is correct.

The only conclusion is that there is no assurance of salvation, that one may not actually be saved.
Only God knows.

While I haven't decided that the born-again can't lose their salvation, I do think that if it is possible, that it's not as easy as some make it out to be. There comes a point where it starts being over taught to where it loses credibility.
I'm still leaning more towards if a person has no regard for the behavior and actions that are what sanctification is about, then they probably aren't actually born again. Someone in this thread (or a similar one) said they know Christians who commit all kinds of heinous sins because they think they can't lose their salvation. And my thought is, they probably don't really have any salvation to lose to begin with. Even if I became 100% convinced that I could not lose my salvation no matter what, that would not have any bearing on my level of commitment. Really because my commitment isn't about me and what I get for it. It's about loving my Lord.

Sidon · Jun 8, 2021

MMXX said:
I'm not a proponent of what Sidon teaches, as I'm still weighing that out. However I will say that lot of the verses used against it simply do not conclude in "or you'll lose your salvation and go to hell". While I haven't decided that the born-again can't lose their salvation, I do think that if it is possible, that it's not as easy as some make it out to be. There comes a point where it starts being over taught to where it loses credibility.

I'm still leaning more towards if a person has no regard for the behavior and actions that are what sanctification is about, then they probably aren't actually born again. Someone in this thread (or a similar one) said they know Christians who commit all kinds of heinous sins because they think they can't lose their salvation. And my thought is, they probably don't really have any salvation to lose to begin with. Even if I became 100% convinced that I could not lose my salvation no matter what, that would not have any bearing on my level of commitment. Really because my commitment isn't about me and what I get for it. It's about loving my Lord.

Salvation is : The Christ on The Cross.
Done.
Salvation is 2000+ yrs old.
If that is a person's "be obedient to be saved" or "i have to keep commandments". or, "i have to endure to the end".. or "i am water baptized".....Then take it up with the Cross that is being denied and rejected.
Its really that simple.

See, every real Teacher of THE Gospel, will have as their CORE Theology what all my THREADS and all my POST's, continue to do.
They all Give CHRIST ALONE, = all Credit due Him for His Shed Blood that is God's "GIFT" of Salvation.
So, when you see my Threads being castigated by people, the same ones, who deny the Cross by substituting their "doing".... They want to talk about LAW and WORKS and everything but CHRIST's BLOOD, because they have not experienced this Blood, is more then likely the issue.
I have.
That is why all i do is LIFT UP THE CROSS, and GIVE CHRIST ALONE, all CREDIT for 2 things.

1. Saving you.
2. Keeping you saved.

So, what you are seeing is a pack of Legalists, bent and angry, who all will agree that Christ SAVES, but none can agree or believe that this same BLOOD of GOD, keeps them saved.
They can't agree to this, because they do not BELIEVE IT. Which means either they are not born again, or they are ""fallen from Grace"".
So, Once you become that believer, then you Harp on one String only = SELF EFFORT to keep Commandments, and LAW KEEPING as Salvation.
= Galatians 1:8

Sidon · Jun 8, 2021

Clare73 said:
So unseating the Greek itself is the heart of your erroneous defense.

Saying that something is amiss, because you try to be a "Greek Text" authority, and you dont speak or read Greek.
When will you stop faking?
Just be honest.

And like i told you, 2 days ago.
Just ask me a question, and we can have a dialog that can be quite revealing.
But we can't do this, while you are riding your fake Greek horse, trying to be a false authority.

Just be real.
That's what i do.
Try it.
It'll be something new for you to try on my Threads.

Clare73 · Jun 8, 2021

Sidon said:
Saying that something is amiss, because you try to be a "Greek Text" authority, and you dont speak or read Greek.
When will you stop faking?
Just be honest.[

Straw man.

"Amiss" is not about the Greek.

]And like i told you, 2 days ago.
Just ask me a question, and we can have a dialog that can be quite revealing.
But we can't do this, while you are riding your fake Greek horse, trying to be a false authority.

Just be real.
That's what i do.
Try it.
It'll be something new for you to try on my Threads.

Let's first deal with what is on the table in:

1) Post #624 - demonstration of the alleged mistranslation of and by the Greek (post #630) in the Pauline Scriptures presented there, and

2) Post #627 - demonstration of the apostle Paul's personal "error of Cain" in the Scriptures presented therein, keeping in mind that he received his teaching from Jesus Christ personally, in the third heaven
(2 Corinthians 12:5),

then we can talk about having a "quite revealing" discussion.

pescador · Jun 8, 2021

Sidon said:
Salvation is : The Christ on The Cross.
Done.
Salvation is 2000+ yrs old.
If that is a person's "be obedient to be saved" or "i have to keep commandments". or, "i have to endure to the end".. or "i am water baptized".....Then take it up with the Cross that is being denied and rejected.
Its really that simple.

See, every real Teacher of THE Gospel, will have as their CORE Theology what all my THREADS and all my POST's, continue to do.
They all Give CHRIST ALONE, = all Credit due Him for His Shed Blood that is God's "GIFT" of Salvation.
So, when you see my Threads being castigated by people, the same ones, who deny the Cross by substituting their "doing".... They want to talk about LAW and WORKS and everything but CHRIST's BLOOD, because they have not experienced this Blood, is more then likely the issue.
I have.
That is why all i do is LIFT UP THE CROSS, and GIVE CHRIST ALONE, all CREDIT for 2 things.

1. Saving you.
2. Keeping you saved.

So, what you are seeing is a pack of Legalists, bent and angry, who all will agree that Christ SAVES, but none can agree or believe that this same BLOOD of GOD, keeps them saved.
They can't agree to this, because they do not BELIEVE IT. Which means either they are not born again, or they are ""fallen from Grace"".
So, Once you become that believer, then you Harp on one String only = SELF EFFORT to keep Commandments, and LAW KEEPING as Salvation.
= Galatians 1:8

Okay, that's all I need to know. You alone are right and the "pack of Legalists, bent and angry"(!), are wrong (because they don't agree with you). They are, obviously, not born again, or they are "fallen from Grace".

How does it feel to be the sole embodiment of wisdom?

Clare73 · Jun 8, 2021

pescador said:
Okay, that's all I need to know. You alone are right and the "pack of Legalists, bent and angry"(!), are wrong (because they don't agree with you). They are, obviously, not born again, or they are "fallen from Grace".

How does it feel to be the sole embodiment of wisdom?

Burdensome?. . .Requires much tolerance and patience?. . .Vexed by such ingrates?. . .Lonely?. . .A real cross to bear?. . .To be sympathied?. . .To be given special allowances?

Ligurian · Jun 8, 2021

Sidon said:
There are always people who are stuck in a slow rut of Christianity for way too long, and have no access to deeper spirituality, which comes from a teacher who has it, and imparts it to the ears that can hear.

Precept upon Precept

Matthew 23:8-10
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, Christ.
master = kathegetes; a guide, i.e. (figuratively) a teacher:--master.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know My [sheep], and am known of Mine. 15 As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

John 16:13-15 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall shew unto you.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 28:16-19 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All authority is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and disciple all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world."

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 = John 12:44-50

Ligurian · Jun 8, 2021

Sidon said:
There is no such thing as "Jesus Theology".
Did you want to make some up?

Here is the reality.
We have the words of Jesus, as quoted by the NT.
Those Quotes are all given by Apostles or similar who wrote the Letters that were used to create Greek and Latin and other manuscripts, that were translated and revised into English Bibles, or other languages.
So, "theology, was not created while Jesus was alive.
This all happened later, when Paul showed up, and wrote most of the New Testament that became Church Doctrine.
He got it, not from the NT, as there was no NT when Paul was alive.
He created it.
Paul got it from Jesus, directly, and wrote it down, and that is what i teach.
"Pauline Theology".

Theology Means

theology = Greek theologia (θεολογία), a combination of theos (Θεός, 'god') and logia (λογία, 'utterances, sayings, oracles')—the latter word relating to Greek logos (λόγος, 'word, discourse, account, reasoning').

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock;
John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

Theology is Doctrine; but not all doctrines are theology

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.

John 7:16-19 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His that sent Me. If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or I speak of Myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh His glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill Me? (precept upon precept, His sheep hear His voice)

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 for the LORD your God tests you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

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