How To Understand : Acts 2:38

[bbbbbbb]

Absolutely. We can have total confidence in God's word, in the Gospel of His grace which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



If we throw away the Son of God we are without hope, for without Christ there is no salvation. Salvation is unconditionally ours by grace; salvation is conditional on faith. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

-CryptoLutheran

You have written well as a true, confessional Lutheran. Thank you.

 

[Guojing]

You have written well as a true, confessional Lutheran. Thank you.

Hmm, do you think all Lutherans share a similar thinking, that "water baptism is not a work because no one can baptize himself, only God can do that?"

 

[Guojing]

So you affirm what Scripture says about baptism? That baptism is God's work and that He saves us through this means of grace?

-CryptoLutheran

Hmm, do you also have the view that "water baptism is not a work because no one can baptize himself, only God can do that?"

 

[keepitsimple144]

Obviously.

And the means God does that is through Word and Sacrament, as Scripture attests. For "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17), "this baptism now saves you" (1 Peter 3:21), "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:54).

So, again, can I assume you believe, as the Scriptures state, that baptism is a means of grace through which God saves us, by uniting us to Christ, to Christ's death and to Christ's life (Romans 6:3-4) and by which we are clothed with Christ (Galatians 3:27)?

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

 

[ViaCrucis]

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

Amen. Word and Sacrament.

The Scriptures do not contradict each other.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hmm, do you also have the view that "water baptism is not a work because no one can baptize himself, only God can do that?"

Baptism isn't a human work, it's God's work.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

Baptism isn't a human work, it's God's work.

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks, do most Lutherans believe that?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hmm, do you think all Lutherans share a similar thinking, that "water baptism is not a work because no one can baptize himself, only God can do that?"

I think that many Lutherans probably don't give it a lot of thought. However, for those who do take their faith seriously, I think they would embrace this concept. However, please don't accept my opinion, because I am not Lutheran and cannot speak at all for Lutherans. Perhaps Mark Roehrfitsch might be willing to address this for you.

 

[Guojing]

I think that many Lutherans probably don't give it a lot of thought. However, for those who do take their faith seriously, I think they would embrace this concept. However, please don't accept my opinion, because I am not Lutheran and cannot speak at all for Lutherans. Perhaps Mark Roehrfitsch might be willing to address this for you.

From what I understand, that is how they reconcile salvation by faith alone apart from works, and still believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

From what I understand, that is how they reconcile salvation by faith alone apart from works, and still believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation.

Yes, that is my understanding, as well.

 

[keepitsimple144]

Amen. Word and Sacrament.
The Scriptures do not contradict each other.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Eph 1:13

 

[ViaCrucis]

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Eph 1:13

Amen. Word and Sacrament.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Thanks, do most Lutherans believe that?

It's standard Christian belief, and it's in our Confessions--so yes.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think that many Lutherans probably don't give it a lot of thought. However, for those who do take their faith seriously, I think they would embrace this concept. However, please don't accept my opinion, because I am not Lutheran and cannot speak at all for Lutherans. Perhaps Mark Roehrfitsch might be willing to address this for you.

Lutherans who know their Confessions recognize that we are passive recipients of God's work and grace. We are no more active in our baptism tahn we are active in hearing the preaching of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbbbbbb]

Lutherans who know their Confessions recognize that we are passive recipients of God's work and grace. We are no more active in our baptism tahn we are active in hearing the preaching of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

Agreed. Thank you.

 

[keepitsimple144]

Amen. Word and Sacrament.

It's standard Christian belief, and it's in our Confessions--so yes.

Standard Christian belief by which also you are saved is that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures; 1 Cor 15:1-4

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Rom 6:5

You were buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Col 2:12-13

He was revealed to you who believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, 1 Peter 1:20-21

The Word of the Lord endures forever
And this is the word [the good news of salvation] which was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:25

There is no other gospel
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal 1:3-5

 

[Guojing]

Lutherans who know their Confessions recognize that we are passive recipients of God's work and grace. We are no more active in our baptism tahn we are active in hearing the preaching of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

So, by that reasoning, would you also regard physical circumcision similarly as not a work as well?

Jews are even more passive recipients since it was done to them at 8 days old.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So, by that reasoning, would you also regard physical circumcision similarly as not a work as well?

Jews are even more passive recipients since it was done to them at 8 days old.

Quite so.

 

[Guojing]

Quite so.

I want to understand how far they are willing to push that particular reasoning.

After all physical circumcision is extremely painful, compared to water baptism.

To an adult, it thus makes little sense to tell him that circumcision is not a work, merely because he cannot circumcise himself. =)

 

[bbbbbbb]

I want to understand how far they are willing to push that particular reasoning.

After all physical circumcision is extremely painful, compared to water baptism.

To an adult, it thus makes little sense to tell him that circumcision is not a work, merely because he cannot circumcise himself. =)

Most Reformed folks will refuse to go down that road because of its obvious dead end. They prefer to use circumcision in a generic sense to justify baptizing infants. The Lutherans seem to not even see the road.

However, the logic is plain and obvious, at least to me. If circumcision is a work (which it clearly and plainly is) then its alleged corollary, baptism must also be a work.