How To Understand : Acts 2:38

[Guojing]

Was baptism offered but rejected?
As Augustine said, "It is not the absence of baptism that damns, but its despisal.

Yes, as I said earlier, he could decide on baptism and chose not to.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Yes, as I said earlier, he could decide on baptism and chose not to.

We have two passages of Scripture that speak about despising baptism.

Luke 7:29-30 Rejecting John's baptism was tantamount to rejecting Jesus' preaching. And rejection of Christ's teaching on baptism is tantamount to rejection Christi's preaching.

MATTHEW 21:31-33, 42-43 Jesus notes the Jewish leaders who fail to respond to John’s message cause the tax collectors and protitutes to “go before them into the kingdom. Those who follow John’s message and baptism, LEADS ONE INTO THE KINGDOM, WHILE FAILURE TO BELIEVE HIM AND BAPTISM HINDERS ONE FROM ENTERING THE TIMEDOM. The implication here is that believing John’s message leads one into the kingdom while failure to believe hinders him. However as Jesus reveals twevlve verses later, A rejection of Jesus teachings is more server than the rejection of john. Because the rejection of Jesus leads to the destruction of the city and causes the kingdom to bypass the Jewish leaders to another people.

Basically the bottom line is this: Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian?

 

[Guojing]

We have two passages of Scripture that speak about despising baptism.

Luke 7:29-30 Rejecting John's baptism was tantamount to rejecting Jesus' preaching. And rejection of Christ's teaching on baptism is tantamount to rejection Christi's preaching.

MATTHEW 21:31-33, 42-43 Jesus notes the Jewish leaders who fail to respond to John’s message cause the tax collectors and protitutes to “go before them into the kingdom. Those who follow John’s message and baptism, LEADS ONE INTO THE KINGDOM, WHILE FAILURE TO BELIEVE HIM AND BAPTISM HINDERS ONE FROM ENTERING THE TIMEDOM. The implication here is that believing John’s message leads one into the kingdom while failure to believe hinders him. However as Jesus reveals twevlve verses later, A rejection of Jesus teachings is more server than the rejection of john. Because the rejection of Jesus leads to the destruction of the city and causes the kingdom to bypass the Jewish leaders to another people.

Basically the bottom line is this: Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian?

Alright, so your answer is a clear No.

Its good to be clear.

If you want to know my answer to that question of yours, it can be found in this thread here How To Understand : Acts 2:38

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Basically the bottom line is this: Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian?

Non Responsive. I am out of this conversation.

 

[Guojing]

Non Responsive. I am out of this conversation.

Strange, is it that difficult for you to at least try to follow the conversation I am having with him, before you jumped in to share your points?

I even provided the link for you to click directly.

If you bother to do such a simple action, you would have read my clear answer to your question, Water baptism is not necessary for salvation.

 

[Bro.T]

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must repent, give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord.

Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). Listen people! Baptism is a commandment or requirement for salvation.

To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God.

 

[keepitsimple144]

We're going to go in circles if you're not going to answer my question

Perhaps you didn't like the answer: Post-121 Follow the pattern of those who by faith inherit the promise.

How does God unite me to Jesus; how does what Jesus did become mine? How does the objective work of Christ
become subjective--how do I, personally, benefit?

It is not as though the word of God failed...[Gal 4:6-7]
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Romans 9:6-8
So if you belong to Christ, then you are the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:29
Know then that it is those of faith who are the seed of Abraham. Gal 3:7

 

[Guojing]

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must repent, give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord.

Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). Listen people! Baptism is a commandment or requirement for salvation.

To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God.

To clarify, you also don't follow what Jesus commanded in Luke 12:32-33, to sell that you have and give alms correct, unlike what the early Acts church did in Acts 4:32, Acts 2:44-45?

So what makes Mark 16:15-16 different from that?

 

[keepitsimple144]

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, ... And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

So now I affirm to you this united with the Lord, that you must no longer live in the past as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. Eph 4:17-19

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:24-25

You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord.

For the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Gal 3:22

Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

But now that this faith has come, [now that you believe] you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:25-27

Listen people! Baptism is a commandment or requirement for salvation. To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die?

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh; Rom 3:14
For those who are under the control of the corrupt nature cannot please God...
If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him [and is not a child of God]. Rom 8:8-9

 

[ViaCrucis]

Perhaps you didn't like the answer: Post-121 Follow the pattern of those who by faith inherit the promise.

I can't like or dislike what doesn't exist.

You haven't answered the question I asked.

It is not as though the word of God failed...[Gal 4:6-7]
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Romans 9:6-8
So if you belong to Christ, then you are the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:29
Know then that it is those of faith who are the seed of Abraham. Gal 3:7

Again, you're not answering the question.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[keepitsimple144]

I can't like or dislike what doesn't exist.

In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists,
should make the author of their salvation perfect through what he suffered [Heb 5:9]

You haven't answered the question I asked.

For both He Who sanctifies [without holiness no one will see the Lord Heb 12:14] and those who are sanctified are of one Father.
For this reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren; Heb 2:10-11

Again, you're not answering the question.

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 2 Thess 2:13 John 14:6

 

[ViaCrucis]

In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists,
should make the author of their salvation perfect through what he suffered [Heb 5:9]

For both He Who sanctifies [without holiness no one will see the Lord Heb 12:14] and those who are sanctified are of one Father.
For this reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren; Heb 2:10-11

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 2 Thess 2:13 John 14:6

Here's the thing, all those Scriptures you've quoted? Great Scripture passages, wonderful passages from God's word. But what you haven't done is provide an answer to my question.

Can you articulate an answer? Use Scripture to back it up, obviously; but quoting Scriptures devoid of context and without offering how you understand these to relate to my question ends up with you saying nothing at all.

Since you won't answer the question, I'll offer the view I hold.

The Ordo Salutis, or "Order of Salvation" begins with Election. We were unconditionally elected in Christ before the foundation of the world.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight, making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ, as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth." - Ephesians 1:3-10

This is the will of God, to save, making satisfaction, justifying sinners once and for all:

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18

How can I obtain this gift and work, which God before the foundation planned and purposed for us in Christ? Only as the pure gift from God, received through faith:

"For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes in Him will not be put to shame.' For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing His riches on all who call on Him. For 'everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!' But they have not all received the Gospel. For Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?' So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:10-17

For this word is grace, which gives and saves,

"For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Greek." - Romans 1:16

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

Therefore, by this Call of the Gospel God gives faith.

"For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified." - Romans 8:29-30

So God has willed that we should come to know, receive, and benefit from the free and wondrous gift of His love and salvation in Christ. What he has done, He has done for all; but in order that we should benefit and receive it, His word goes forth and accomplishes His will.

"So shall My word that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it." - Isaiah 55:11

And this is our Regeneration, to have been born from above, and have faith; for we have been born

"not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" - John 1:13

And this birth, from God, is the work and power of God,

"Jesus answered him, 'Amen, Amen, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?' Jesus answered, 'Amen, Amen, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter God's kingdom.'" - John 3:3-5

"He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit." - Titus 3:5

"Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word." - Ephesians 5:25-26

So we can look to God's promises, His word, that wherever this word is God is saving us, giving us faith, strengthening faith, creating in us new life, faith.

Wherever the word is preached, God is saving us.
The word, connected to the water in Baptism, God is saving us.
The word, connected to bread and wine in the Lord's Supper, God is saving us.

Where God declares our sins forgiven, our sins are forgiven.
Where God declares us justified, we are justified.
Where God declares that we are His, we are His.

He gives, we receive.
He does the work, we benefit from His work.
God saves, we are but beggars.

He has elected us, predestined us, called us, justified us, and purposed us in Christ to eternal glory for Christ's sake. Look to His promises, His word, which declares these things as true: In His preached word, in your baptism, in the Lord's Supper, in the declaration of your sins as forgiven. All is grace, saving you, saving me; unworthy sinners. Men left battered and beaten and left for dead on the side of the road until Christ, our Good Samaritan found us, carried us, healed us, and paid everything in full for us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[keepitsimple144]

Can you articulate an answer?

I've been 'articulating' all along that the blessing in Christ is received by grace through faith.

Since you won't answer the question, I'll offer the view I hold.

Which happens to be the view of every sober-minded Christian. 1 Peter 1:13

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight, making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ, as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth." - Ephesians 1:3-10

Reconciled in Christ
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—provided you are established and rooted in the faith; Col 1:14-23

 

[ViaCrucis]

I've been 'articulating' all along that the blessing in Christ is received by grace through faith.

Do you believe, as Scripture says, that baptism is a means of God's grace?

That we were united to Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection in baptism? (Romans 6:3-4)
That we were clothed with Christ in baptism? (Galatians 3:27)
That we were cleansed by the washing of water with the word? (Ephesians 5:26)
That we received the Holy Spirit in baptism? (Acts 2:38)
That God saves us in baptism? (1 Peter 3:21)

That baptism is not a work of man done for God, but is a gracious work of God, taking ordinary water, uniting it with His word, delivering to us those promises which He promises in Scripture? Do you believe that?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[keepitsimple144]

Do you believe, as Scripture says, that baptism is a means of God's grace?

God's grace is revealed through Christ as it says in Scripture:
Who was declared the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith; Rom 1:4-5

And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. Acts 4:33

That we were united to Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection in baptism? (Romans 6:3-4)

So that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. Rom 6:4-11

That we were clothed with Christ in baptism? (Galatians 3:27)

Now that faith has come...for as many of you as were baptized into Christ [the Anointed One, the Messiah] have put on Christ. Gal 3:25-29

That we were cleansed by the washing of water with the word? (Ephesians 5:26)

You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. John 15:3-4

That we received the Holy Spirit in baptism? (Acts 2:38)

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, 1 Cor 12:13 Where Christ is all and in all. Col 3:10-11

That God saves us in baptism? (1 Peter 3:21)

Which corresponds to the pledge of a good conscience toward God, since your salvation comes through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That baptism is not a work of man done for God, but is a gracious work of God, taking ordinary water, uniting it with His word, delivering to us those promises which He promises in Scripture? Do you believe that?

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world; 2 Peter 1:3-5

 

[ViaCrucis]

God's grace is revealed through Christ as it says in Scripture:
Who was declared the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith; Rom 1:4-5

And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. Acts 4:33

So that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. Rom 6:4-11

Now that faith has come...for as many of you as were baptized into Christ [the Anointed One, the Messiah] have put on Christ. Gal 3:25-29

You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. John 15:3-4

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, 1 Cor 12:13 Where Christ is all and in all. Col 3:10-11

Which corresponds to the pledge of a good conscience toward God, since your salvation comes through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world; 2 Peter 1:3-5

So you affirm what Scripture says about baptism? That baptism is God's work and that He saves us through this means of grace?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you affirm what Scripture says about baptism? That baptism is God's work and that He saves us through this means of grace?

-CryptoLutheran

Do you believe that such a salvation is truly unconditional and which provides an absolute assurance of salvation or one which is conditional and which can be abrogated should one grow into a truly wicked and despicable atheist?

 

[keepitsimple144]

So you affirm what Scripture says about baptism? That baptism is God's work and that He saves us through this means of grace?

God saves us through Christ as it says in Scripture, How will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Romans 8:32-34
And salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved. Acts 4:11-12
As you come to him, the living Stone— chosen by God and precious to him—1 Peter 2:4-6

It is not enough for My Servant to restore my people; I will also make Him a light for the Gentiles; Isaiah 49:6

As foretold, the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the light of salvation to his own people and to the Gentiles. Acts 26:23

 

[ViaCrucis]

God saves us through Christ as it says in Scripture, How will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Romans 8:32-34
And salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved. Acts 4:11-12
As you come to him, the living Stone— chosen by God and precious to him—1 Peter 2:4-6

It is not enough for My Servant to restore my people; I will also make Him a light for the Gentiles; Isaiah 49:6

As foretold, the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the light of salvation to his own people and to the Gentiles. Acts 26:23

Obviously.

And the means God does that is through Word and Sacrament, as Scripture attests. For "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17), "this baptism now saves you" (1 Peter 3:21), "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:54).

So, again, can I assume you believe, as the Scriptures state, that baptism is a means of grace through which God saves us, by uniting us to Christ, to Christ's death and to Christ's life (Romans 6:3-4) and by which we are clothed with Christ (Galatians 3:27)?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do you believe that such a salvation is truly unconditional and which provides an absolute assurance of salvation

Absolutely. We can have total confidence in God's word, in the Gospel of His grace which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

or one which is conditional and which can be abrogated should one grow into a truly wicked and despicable atheist?

If we throw away the Son of God we are without hope, for without Christ there is no salvation. Salvation is unconditionally ours by grace; salvation is conditional on faith. It's not either/or, it's both/and.

-CryptoLutheran