How To Understand : Acts 2:38

[ViaCrucis]

Standard Christian belief by which also you are saved is that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures; 1 Cor 15:1-4

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Rom 6:5

You were buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Col 2:12-13

He was revealed to you who believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, 1 Peter 1:20-21

The Word of the Lord endures forever
And this is the word [the good news of salvation] which was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:25

There is no other gospel
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Gal 1:3-5

Amen. All of this is most certainly true.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

So, by that reasoning, would you also regard physical circumcision similarly as not a work as well?

Jews are even more passive recipients since it was done to them at 8 days old.

Correct, getting circumcised is not a work. Historically, the overwhelming majority Christians have been baptized as infants as well. Since the baptism of infants and young children was standard practice from the time of the Apostles onward--only being rejected by certain radical extremists in the 16th century.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

Correct, getting circumcised is not a work.

-CryptoLutheran

Even if it was painful?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Even if it was painful?

It seems to me that inflicting pain is a form of torture, not a way of love and grace. Other than a small risk of drowning, baptism, at least, does not inflict pain.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Even if it was painful?

Even if you're blind and have your sight restored.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

Even if you're blind and have your sight restored.

-CryptoLutheran

I can see how determined Lutherans are willing to go to hold on to that reasoning. =)

 

[ViaCrucis]

I can see how determined Lutherans are willing to go to hold on to that reasoning. =)

Alright, for the fun and giggles of it. Explain how an infant earned their place by their own merit as a member of God's people when they were circumcised. And explain how why it being painful or not is relevant.

Be as clear and precise as you can.

-CryptoLUtheran

 

[Guojing]

Alright, for the fun and giggles of it. Explain how an infant earned their place by their own merit as a member of God's people when they were circumcised. And explain how why it being painful or not is relevant.

Be as clear and precise as you can.

-CryptoLUtheran

Its based on Genesis 17:14.

Its definitely a work done by man, whether adults or infants.

It is something that either the adult do by his own choice,

or the parent of the infant do for the latter (Acts 21:21).

The fact that someone else has to do for the recipient, in both cases, is irrelevant.

After all, during the OT times, if I am a gentile who wanted to be part of Israel's covenant, where physical circumcision was required, don't tell me that you would tell me straight in my face that it is not a work I must do, merely because "I cannot circumcise myself"?

Hope that is clear and precise enough for you.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Its based on Genesis 17:14.

Its definitely a work done by man, whether adults or infants.

It is something that either the adult do by his own choice,

or the parent of the infant do for the latter (Acts 21:21).

The fact that someone else has to do for the recipient, in both cases, is irrelevant.

After all, during the OT times, if I am a gentile who wanted to be part of Israel's covenant, where physical circumcision was required, don't tell me that you would tell me straight in my face that it is not a work I must do, merely because "I cannot circumcise myself"?

Hope that is clear and precise enough for you.

Genesis 17:14 doesn't say that an infant earns their way by their own merit to being a member of God's people by being circumcised.

Nothing was cleared up.

I suspect the issue is that you have a very different view of what a "work" is than I do.

When I read Ephesians 2:8-9 I understand it to mean that there is nothing I can do in order to earn favor from God, and instead everything I have comes freely from God to me as free and unmerited gift.

A work, here, is something I actively do. Nothing which I do can earn me righteousness before God, nothing I can do will ever be righteous before God. Not even my act of believing.

That is why faith itself is a gift.
That is why the way--the means--which God gives me His gifts are His acts, His works, His means.

His Word. His Sacraments.

I don't earn anything in baptism.
No more than an infant Israelite earned a place in God's Covenant people.

It is a gift, from God, worked by God, for my benefit. Because He is gracious, and He loves me--unworthy and wretched sinner that I am.

I deserve death and hell.
God chooses, instead, to give me life and life everlasting.
That's the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

Genesis 17:14 doesn't say that an infant earns their way by their own merit to being a member of God's people by being circumcised.

Nothing was cleared up.

Its a necessary condition. Genesis 17:14 says to be part of God's people in the OT, Abraham's male descendants needs to be circumcised.

Whether adults or infants is irrelevant. If you refuse circumcision, you are cut off from his people

That is a work period

 

[ViaCrucis]

Its a necessary condition. Genesis 17:14 says to be part of God's people in the OT, Abraham's male descendants needs to be circumcised.

Whether adults or infants is irrelevant. If you refuse circumcision, you are cut off from his people

That is a work period

So something is a work if it is required to be part of God's people? That's the definition of a work?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

So something is a work if it is required to be part of God's people? That's the definition of a work?

-CryptoLutheran

No, I said something that Man have to do, that is a work, the only exception is to believe, aka Romans 4:5.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No, I said something that Man have to do, that is a work, the only exception is to believe, aka Romans 4:5.

You believe faith is a work then? And that works DO save us?

Interesting take.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

You believe faith is a work then? And that works DO save us?

Interesting take.

-CryptoLutheran

Had you read Romans 4:5, then you won't be asking this silly question.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Had you read Romans 4:5, then you won't be asking this silly question.

Believe is something we have to do, therefore it is a work, yes? You believe that faith is a human work.

The reason why Romans 4:5 doesn't work here is that Paul didn't believe that faith was something we do, but that it is a gift from God.

What you have still failed to do is explain how an infant does a work when he is circumcised. This particular tangent was your idea, and you've yet to actually go anywhere with it.

Because at this point you've told me this: When a person doesn't do something, it's a work; but when a person does do something, it's not a work. Which, I'll be honest, comes across as a bit unreasonable.

Because an infant does nothing when they are circumcised.
A person does nothing when they are baptized.
I would also add that faith isn't something we do either, it's God's gift and God's work too.

You, of course, disagree. You believe that when someone doesn't do something (is circumcised, is baptized, etc) it's a work. And you believe that faith is something someone does, but that it isn't a work.

Am I wrong?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Guojing]

Believe is something we have to do, therefore it is a work, yes? You believe that faith is a human work.

I said

No, I said something that Man have to do, that is a work, the only exception is to believe, aka Romans 4:5.

I trust you understand what exception meant

What you have still failed to do is explain how an infant does a work when he is circumcised. This particular tangent was your idea, and you've yet to actually go anywhere with it.

I already said to you

Its definitely a work done by man, whether adults or infants.

It is something that either the adult do by his own choice,

or the parent of the infant do for the latter (Acts 21:21).

The fact that someone else has to do for the recipient, in both cases, is irrelevant.

Am I wrong?

-CryptoLutheran

Try reading my posts and understand what I am literally saying in them.

 

[keepitsimple144]

No, I said something that Man have to do, that is a work, the only exception is to believe, aka Romans 4:5.

“This is the work of God—that you believe in the One He has sent.” John 6:29

You believe faith is a work then? And that works DO save us?

Interesting take.

Based on the measure of faith that God has granted. Rom 12:3

As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. Rom 4:16-17

He said to Abraham, ‘Through your Seed all peoples on earth will be blessed. When God raised up His Servant Jesus, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from iniquity. Acts 3:25-26

Now I say, that Jesus Christ has become a minister of the Circumcision for the truth of God, [Rom 2:29] to confirm the promises made unto the fathers, and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. Rom 15:8-9