How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[dad]

You really shouldn't though.

Mal 3:10 -
Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

So we are asked to test Him by the Almighty Himself.

 

[dad]

Name one prophet or apostle who was there. Just one. That shouldn't be difficult if so many of them were there.

Many were there with Jesus and saw Him resurrected such as John. If you are talking about Mary, obviously the disciples were not there yet. Joseph was there, and an angel told him that Mary was pregnant also. John the Baptist's mom saw Mary when she was pregnant. Jesus always talked with the Father, who was there!

 

[dad]

How do you know she wasn't impregnated by a man though?

Jesus confirmed it.

What I'm trying to get at is you need a way to verify these ideas. I'm still not seeing how you can do that.

He is easy to verify and put to the test. Obviously science is not in the business of verifying that God miraculously impregnated a virgin. Nor is it capable of denying it.

You've made some assertions (essentially your hypothesis), but still haven't explained how you can test it.

Lost me there. ( Although I assume you may be talking about some of my deductions on the scientific front)

Sure, fine. But that's why I'm trying to understand how one can test ideas related to the supernatural. So far, you haven't even begun to explain how that works.

One way I tested it was to ask Jesus into my heart. He came. Tried, tested, and proven. Later I studied prophesy a little and sure enough, Scripture prophesy is tested and tried and true as ever true could be also.

I'm not asking about how science does things, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

When people ask for evidence in a forum with science areas, generally it is science that they have in mind.

Just focus on the example you presented: Mary was allegedly impregnated supernaturally. Explain how one can test that idea to verify that that event did occur as a result of supernatural intervention.

Mary tested it! You can't. Jesus confirmed it was all true.

 

[SelfSim]

FYI, I think you hit the nail on the head in this post.

People perceive things in really different ways. (See here for an example based on 'blue').
Another example: Dad is currently demonstrating how his mind perceives what is 'real' too, no?.

When referring to 'objective reality', this is clear: many minds don't count as 'objective' in the first place.
So how could 'objective reality' not depend on the mind, when some minds don't get to count?
Insane minds, infant minds, extremely unintelligent minds, even minds that cling so tightly to prejudicial beliefs that they cannot be 'objective', none of these are permitted to spoil 'objective reality' even if they completely disagree.

Better off trying to understand the mind dependent requirements of 'objectivity reality', such that science can work, I think .. (especially in a science forum!)

 

[Bungle_Bear]

No problem, let's verify that. All men can know if Jesus is God and whether He will come into our lives if asked. So you can know.

As I said, the honest person admits when something cannot be known. Belief isn't the same as knowledge.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

If you are talking about Mary, obviously the disciples were not there yet.

That's what was being discussed and the claim you made was in response to that, so let's stick to that topic. The disciples weren't there, so that's a good start.

Joseph was there

Chapter and verse please. My bible has Mary being on her own when Gabriel visited.

and an angel told him that Mary was pregnant also. John the Baptist's mom saw Mary when she was pregnant. Jesus always talked with the Father, who was there!

All irrelevant to the claim you made.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You're not supposed to test God.

Talk to dad; dad said, "The supernatural is testable and has been tested". He also says, "We can test God. People do it all the time. He asks us too!"

However, he also said, "You are in no position to rule anything spiritual out or in! You are only in a position to chose to believe or disbelieve", which contradicts that, because the purpose of a test is to rule out or in the phenomena relating to the claim that is being tested, so that there is reason to believe or disbelieve (or have more or less confidence in) the claim.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

...Mary found out that the angel that spoke to her was correct. She had physical evidence. Science would not have recognized the physical evidence. Why? Because science is selective. Nothing physical matters if it involved the spiritual, or was outside of a place modern science could test.

This is a misunderstanding of science. If there is physical evidence, it is within the scope of science, whatever the claimed origin, be it spiritual, supernatural or magical. Physical evidence is observable, measurable; it has effects on other physical systems, so it can be investigated.

So what was the physical evidence that Mary had?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You really shouldn't though.

Luke 4:12 said:
Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

He was quoting - but that alone doesn't mean he endorsed the quote - if he'd said, "It is rightly said...", you'd have a point.

p.s. speaking in green ink is not a good sign

 

[pitabread]

Jesus confirmed it.

How? Again, you keep asserting things but you keep leaving out the "how". I want to know the "how".

He is easy to verify and put to the test. Obviously science is not in the business of verifying that God miraculously impregnated a virgin. Nor is it capable of denying it.

I'm not talking about science. I'm talking about how one tests things supernaturally. You don't need to keep bringing up science.

Lost me there.

What you have been presenting is an idea (or generalized ideas). I'm asking how the idea can be tested to verify they are a result of the supernatural. Especially in a manner that rules out competing explanations.

For example, women can become pregnant via sexual intercourse. In the case of Mary, you are claiming she was impregnated supernaturally. So my question is how do we confirm that such a pregnancy was the result of supernatural intervention and she didn't just have sex?

Now based on what you are stating we can't seem to verify that, so it is clearly not a good example of testing the supernatural.

One way I tested it was to ask Jesus into my heart. He came. Tried, tested, and proven.

How does this test the supernatural?

Later I studied prophesy a little and sure enough, Scripture prophesy is tested and tried and true as ever true could be also.

Give an example. How is prophesy tested in a manner that verifies the supernatural?

Mary tested it! You can't. Jesus confirmed it was all true.

If we can't test this idea, then why even bring it up? It doesn't sound like a good example.

Perhaps you wish to try another example instead? You've brought up prayer, prophecy, etc. Pick a better example and explain how it is tested.

 

[Strathos]

Mal 3:10 -
Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

So we are asked to test Him by the Almighty Himself.

That was a specific situation. I'm talking about in general.

 

[dad]

As I said, the honest person admits when something cannot be known. Belief isn't the same as knowledge.

If God could not be known, Jesus would never have come to earth to make Himself known. Now if you are just talking about science, well, they had to get used to saying 'I don't know'! Even when they thought they knew along comes new info and boom, back to the drawing board to cook up a new fishbowl explanation.

 

[dad]

That's what was being discussed and the claim you made was in response to that, so let's stick to that topic. The disciples weren't there, so that's a good start.

OK

Chapter and verse please. My bible has Mary being on her own when Gabriel visited.

Joseph was there, as in with Mary as a partner. He was not in the room when Gabriel appeared. He was though, as stated, informed by an angel later that the baby was from God. So yes, Joseph was there and very much a part of things.

 

[dad]

This is a misunderstanding of science. If there is physical evidence, it is within the scope of science, whatever the claimed origin, be it spiritual, supernatural or magical. Physical evidence is observable, measurable; it has effects on other physical systems, so it can be investigated.

So what was the physical evidence that Mary had?

She had God in her belly. Name the science that you claim could be used here for 'whatever origin'!?

 

[dad]

How? Again, you keep asserting things but you keep leaving out the "how". I want to know the "how".

By saying that Scripture was correct in the extreme. By fulfilling it and rising from being dead as a doornail. By being alive and well today and working in our lives when invited.

I'm not talking about science. I'm talking about how one tests things supernaturally. You don't need to keep bringing up science.

Looking at the thread title, it gets confusing. So God works in people. We are the test tubes.

What you have been presenting is an idea (or generalized ideas). I'm asking how the idea can be tested to verify they are a result of the supernatural. Especially in a manner that rules out competing explanations.

Sometimes people would not even know that some spirit had affected them or inspired them when it comes to spirits that are not of God. However, God makes Himself known when aked.

For example, women can become pregnant via sexual intercourse. In the case of Mary, you are claiming she was impregnated supernaturally.

That was fulfilled prophesy known by many at the time who knew her. Even the Magi knew something was going on and traveled far to see it.

So my question is how do we confirm that such a pregnancy was the result of supernatural intervention and she didn't just have sex?

That was already confirmed by Mary and Joseph and Jesus and Elizabeth and etc. No need to have you confirm it. One way to confirm it is by seeing how Jesus works still and has worked and how the bible is true. Not sure where this idea comes from that little modern man should be required to put their stamp of approval on things that happened long long long before they existed? If we test God and the bible and prophesy and see it is all true, we then know the things we can't check are also true. Elementary.

How does this test the supernatural?

That is a bit like saying how does it feel to be soaked in water? How does it feel to love your mom? How does it feel to get shocked by electricity? How does it feel to have many prayers answered? Etc. God works in people. So each 'test-tube' needs to perform the tests.

Give an example. How is prophesy tested in a manner that verifies the supernatural?

Israel went into captivity 70 years and Jerusalem was destroyed. Or we see that the temple that took eighty years to build in Herod's day was completely destroyed, even having stones ripped apart looking for melted gold in cracks. So one day the big temple was here, the next..boom. No temple at all. Etc

If we can't test this idea, then why even bring it up? It doesn't sound like a good example.

If we depended on only what you could test man would be in the dark. Get over the idea you can test anything supernatural on your own power, steam, and strength! The way we test it is by looking at the effects and reality of God in our lives when we do as He said and ask. No one is going to be climbing over the back walls, or sneaking around doing things their own way and get results.
The city that is coming and is the home of all believers (where the gold streets, pearls, and mansions are) is gated! If anyone wants to go in and check it out they need to come through the gate and have asked Jesus.

 

[dad]

That was a specific situation. I'm talking about in general.

Jesus asked us to accept Him in our hearts. Then we would know if it was all true and He was of God. That is a test. We are told to test the spirits and what is said to see if they are of God or not. That is a test. Elijah tested what god or God was real by having fire come down from heaven. Israel tested God in times when they were weak and had more powerful enemies by obeying and having God wipe out their enemies! Noah tested God by spending years building the ark, and sure enough. all the animals came to the ark, called by God, and the world was flooded! Abraham tested God by offering his son, expecting that God would raise him from the dead. Putting God to the test is what believers do. Even in asking for eternal life, we test Him in many cases to see if He will do what He said.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

She had God in her belly. Name the science that you claim could be used here for 'whatever origin'!?

She had a baby in her belly. What was the physical evidence that it was a supernatural baby? i.e. how could it be physically distinguished from an ordinary human baby?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

OK


Joseph was there, as in with Mary as a partner. He was not in the room when Gabriel appeared. He was though, as stated, informed by an angel later that the baby was from God. So yes, Joseph was there and very much a part of things.

Nice. You admit nobody was with Mary but still insist others were there.

Guess what? You've been defeated again

 

[dad]

She had a baby in her belly. What was the physical evidence that it was a supernatural baby? i.e. how could it be physically distinguished from an ordinary human baby?

The baby was born with no man involved. That is supernatural. The baby was announced by an angel from the throne of God. Rose from the dead. The baby healed multitudes in Israel. The baby rose the dead to life. The baby walked through walls and on water and flew up to heaven. The baby had another supernatural birth happen for His prophet to prepare His way. The baby fulfilled over 300 Scripture prophesies. Can you not start to detect some supernatural was involved here?

 

[dad]

Nice. You admit nobody was with Mary but still insist others were there.

Guess what? You've been defeated again

Desperate post. Gabriel was with Mary. God was with Mary. Joseph was betrothed to her. Not sure if you wanted a spy camera in the bedroom, or you won't believe it? Oh, and an angel also told Elizabeth who was the mom of John the Baptist that Mary was carrying a baby from God!