How to prove that GOD exists from a scientific point of view?

[Kylie]

So what's your cure for the state the world is in? If you'd watched the video I posted earlier, you would have opened your eyes to the insidious and far reaching infection of sin.

Let people be themselves as long as it doesn't affect others.

And no, your life is not affected by some trans guy down the street being trans.

 

[AV1611VET]

Economics is based on consistency. The purpose of Mathematics' symbols and tautologies is to maintain that consistency.

Well, far be it to let economics get in the way if a man wants to become the weaker vessel.

As long as he keeps silent in the church.

 

[YahuahSaves]

ow do you know that you are whatever gender you believe yourself to be?

Because God created me female.

nd as I've already said, I believe myself to be a woman. This is not because of the shape of my genitals, since the removal of those genitals will not change the way I identify.

We weren't talking about you, we're talking about transgender people.

You are trying to change the topic. We are not talking about the biological structures that a person has between their legs.

No, we're talking about the entirety of the biological make-up of a person, externally and internally. So what's the conclusion on gender in that respect?

The difference is that I don't see trans people trying to tell me that I should be trans too.

And there we have the snide remarks about Christians again.

By the way, there is evidence that trans people's minds really are the gender they claim to be.

Is there? Show me with a link to that evidence.

P.s. if you actually watch the video I posted of 2 transgender person's testimonies, you'll see the problem goes much deeper than anything science, medicine or psychiatry can fix. God shows people things they don't even recognise in themselves and heals what no other person can heal. He is the cure. Whether you choose to pander to the lie is your choice, but I know where I stand, people need truth, not more lies.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Let people be themselves as long as it doesn't affect others.

But it does affect them. God says we're to love him and love others as ourselves. Many of us cannot truly love ourselves because of the worlds culture and therefore cannot truly love others and instead spread lies and hatred. Scripture also says those who don't know God, do not know love, because God is love.

 

[YahuahSaves]

And what about if a person is born with a deformity, their body is not the way it should be? Is it okay in your eyes for such a person to have surgery to correct that? To get their body looking a way that makes the person happy?

As a person who was born with a deformity, if you'd asked me this before coming to Christ, I would have said yes. But since God has shown me my wanting to amputate my leg as a teenager was wrong, the answer now, is no. This life is not all about "happiness". People use that as a reason for any sin against God.

 

[Kylie]

Because God created me female.

And what tells you that?

We weren't talking about you, we're talking about transgender people.

Why would it be any difference? Surely a person's gender identity is a person's gender identity?

Or are you suggesting that anyone who doesn't have to look in their pants to tell if they're a boy or a girl must be trans?

No, we're talking about the entirety of the biological make-up of a person, externally and internally. So what's the conclusion on gender in that respect?

Well, if we are going to do that, then you will surely have no need to refer to what people have between their legs, since you've got the rest of their body to deal with.

And anyway, I provided a source which shows that a trans person's brain is built more like the gender they identify with. That was back in post 3379: "Some of the first biological evidence of the incongruence transgender individuals experience, because their brain indicates they are one sex and their body another, may have been found in estrogen receptor pathways in the brain of 30 transgender individuals." SOURCE

And there we have the snide remarks about Christians again.

Well, maybe if you hadn't repeatedly stated that you believed that you had a responsibility to bring others into your faith...

Don't call it snide remarks when I'm just pointing out what you have already admitted you do.

Is there? Show me with a link to that evidence.

Already have done. Twice.

P.s. if you actually watch the video I posted of 2 transgender person's testimonies, you'll see the problem goes much deeper than anything science, medicine or psychiatry can fix. God shows people things they don't even recognise in themselves and heals what no other person can heal. He is the cure. Whether you choose to pander to the lie is your choice, but I know where I stand, people need truth, not more lies.

Oh wow, two whole people. Because all trans people's experiences are exactly the same, aren't they?

 

[Kylie]

But it does affect them. God says we're to love him and love others as ourselves. Many of us cannot truly love ourselves because of the worlds culture and therefore cannot truly love others and instead spread lies and hatred. Scripture also says those who don't know God, do not know love, because God is love.

Please tell me how you, living in Melbourne, are affected by a trans person living in Iqaluit, northern Canada.

 

[Kylie]

As a person who was born with a deformity, if you'd asked me this before coming to Christ, I would have said yes. But since God has shown me my wanting to amputate my leg as a teenager was wrong, the answer now, is no. This life is not all about "happiness". People use that as a reason for any sin against God.

And a woman who has to have a mastectomy to save her life is wrong for wanting to get an implant so her chest isn't lopsided, isn't she?

And all those people who have deformed limbs that will render them incapable of living a normal life, but can have surgery which will give them that normal life, they're wrong for wanting that surgery.

Or are you suggesting that God wants us to suffer?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well this thread went south.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Well, maybe if you hadn't repeatedly stated that you believed that you had a responsibility to bring others into your faith...

I said I have a responsibility to share the gospel. And I'm pretty sure I said it once, not repeatedly.

Oh wow, two whole people. Because all trans people's experiences are exactly the same, aren't they?

So your "evidence" suggests otherwise?

Excerpt:
"Some of the first biological evidence of the incongruence transgender individuals experience, because their brain indicates they are one sex and their body another, may have been found in estrogen receptor pathways in the brain of 30 transgender individuals."

It says "may have" and it says 30 people. Not very convincing.

Please tell me how you, living in Melbourne, are affected by a trans person living in Iqaluit, northern Canada.

Who said I was affected? I said they're affected.

(Staff Edit)

Or are you suggesting that God wants us to suffer?

Absolutely not. A fallen world is the result of sin. Human choices create outcomes God never intended. But he uses those outcomes to further the kingdom anyway.

 

[Kylie]

So your "evidence" suggests otherwise?

Excerpt:
"Some of the first biological evidence of the incongruence transgender individuals experience, because their brain indicates they are one sex and their body another, may have been found in estrogen receptor pathways in the brain of 30 transgender individuals."

It says "may have" and it says 30 people. Not very convincing.

By my calculations, 30 people is more than 2 people.

Who said I was affected? I said they're affected.

So if you aren't affected, what difference does it make to you?

Please tell me how, being married to a Christian, you came to despise Christians so much?

I've told you to stop telling me what my position is. Reported.

 

[YahuahSaves]

By my calculations, 30 people is more than 2 people.

You don't know how many transgender people have come to faith in Christ.

So if you aren't affected, what difference does it make to you?

Replacing the lies with Gods truth is vital to human healing.

've told you to stop telling me what my position is. Reported.

I didn't tell you, I asked you. You keep getting nasty towards Christians on this site.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Don't call it snide remarks when I'm just pointing out what you have already admitted you do.

You know the Holy Spirit told me leave this thread way back in post #3,024

But foolishly, I thought I could soften your hardened heart towards him. I was wrong. I will bow out to let you fight among yourselves. Don't respond any more or I may have to report  you.

 

[SelfSim]

OK so, according to you, based on a transgender person's belief they are the opposite gender, and not the one they were born with, this is verifiable mathematically,

No of couse not .. that would be silly.
On that particular topic, what they believe in their minds, as being what they are, is up to them (unless we are all in direct control of other people's minds?). We are talking about generally normal healthy minds/people here. Both gender identification and sexual preference start with perceptions created by an individual's mind. Once expressed using language and actions, that then becomes an objectively testable one for an onlooker. This, is the scientific approach.
The other way is to try to tell other people what they're thinking and forget the testing .. (good luck with that approach).

but a belief in God isn't? Sounds contradictory to me.

A belief in God also produces expressions using language and actions. There's no question, for me, that the belief in God informs what the words 'reality', or 'exists', means for those people .. (ie: the same as for those folk above).

My point is that there are only two ways thus far known for producing meaning for those two words .. (i) the belief based way or (ii) the scientific method way. When the scientific method is used, successful test data results in what science the means by its term of 'Objective Reality'.

 

[YahuahSaves]

We are talking about generally normal healthy minds/people here. Both gender identification and sexual preference start with perceptions created by an individual's mind.

On that we agree. Did you watch the testimony I posted? Lots that would both disagree with the former statement and agree with the latter.
My interest in psychology far outweighs my interest in science. A person's mind is central to how they live in and relate to the world around them.

Once expressed using language and actions, that then becomes an objectively testable one for an onlooker. This, is the scientific approach.

We can't always tell a lot about someone's behaviour though. It's still a perception when we observe someone else. Jesus was called a drunkard and a glutton after all, based on the observations of the religious people.

(i) the belief based way or (ii) the scientific method way. When the scientific method is used, successful test data results in what science the means by its term of 'Objective Reality'.

So you didn't clarify if you think belief in gender identity and belief in God can be observed scientifically?

 

[SelfSim]

On that we agree. Did you watch the testimony I posted? Lots that would both disagree with the former statement and agree with the latter.

Nope .. missed it.

My interest in psychology far outweighs my interest in science. A person's mind is central to how they live in and relate to the world around them.

Sounds fair enough .. (with the caveats that 'the world around them' is also a perceptual mind model and Psychology is the scientific study of mind and behaviour).

We can't always tell a lot about someone's behaviour though. It's still a perception when we observe someone else.

An observation carries a different implication in science though.

Jesus was called a drunkard and a glutton after all, based on the observations of the religious people.

.. and that isn't what physics would call 'an observation'.

So you didn't clarify if you think belief in gender identity and belief in God can be observed scientifically?

Beliefs can be distinguished by using an operational (testable) definition of belief. They are demonstrably the basis of what believers mean whenever they use the terms 'exists, is real, are', (etc).

 

[YahuahSaves]

An observation carries a different implication in science though.

.. and that isn't what physics would call 'an observation'.

So what's your opinion on gender dysphoria? Can it be proven scientifically based on the above definitions? If the answer is yes, how does belief in one's identity, differ from a belief in God?

 

[YahuahSaves]

When the scientific method is used, successful test data results in what science the means by its term of 'Objective Reality'.

This question of gender theory got me thinking about an article I read years ago about the wombs inability to reject BPA because it mimics estrogen so closely, our body cannot tell the difference. Couldn't find the study on that, but I've linked some articles.

[The environmental estrogen bisphenol A and its effects on the human organism] - PubMed

Bisphenol A (BPA), i.e. an environmental estrogen, is one of the most common synthetic chemicals which enter the human body from plastic bottles, food packaging and dental materials. As many studies show, a longterm exposure to BPA is connected with a risk of developing various diseases and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fetal Bisphenol-A Induced Changes in Murine Behavior and Brain Gene Expression Persisted in Adult-aged Offspring - PubMed

In utero Bisphenol A (BPA) exposure has been linked to many deficits during brain development, including sexual differentiation, behavior, and motor coordination. Yet, how BPA induces these disorders and whether its effects are long lasting are largely unknown. In this study, using a mouse...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Research: Even “safe” levels of BPA exposure in the womb detrimental to children

Research shows even “safe” levels of BPA exposure in the womb is detrimental to children; it contributes to neurodevelopment and gender development issues Many people are aware of the fact…

www.rawgist.com

So, your thoughts? Are people the gender they feel that they are? The studies could definitely show this to be true, but it's human interference and not God ordained IMHO. So, that being said, you guys can get back to "how to prove God exists from a scientific point of view", or better yet (since proof is impossible), how do believers witness to non-believers? (Like the OP asked). Is it even possible?

 

[Kylie]

You don't know how many transgender people have come to faith in Christ.

Show me a study then.

Replacing the lies with Gods truth is vital to human healing.

Good luck with that.

(Staff Edit)

 

[Kylie]

You know the Holy Spirit told me leave this thread way back in post #3,024

But foolishly, I thought I could soften your hardened heart towards him. I was wrong. I will bow out to let you fight among yourselves. Don't respond any more or I may have to report  you.

You could have easily changed my mind by providing evidence to back up your claim, which is at the very heart of all science (and that's what this thread is about, scientific evidence for God).

Feel free to report me for this if you want, but I suspect that you'll be informed about the ignore feature that this site has. Me responding to your posts is not breaking any rule that I am aware of.