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But all other religions are a lie and false and they will no longer exist when Jesus returns to set up His Kingdom. How can you not say that the faith that comes from God's Word is not superior to other false religions or false faiths? To me, it sounds like you are saying all religions are one or that there is some truth that is good in other religions whereby we should acknowledge them on the same level as God's truth. Sorry, there is God's truth (From His Word) and then there is the devil's kingdom (Which is every other religion). There is no neutral kingdom inbetween.
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Yes, I realize that now, and I do sincerely apologize. I was in a hurry while responding, then thought about it afterwards when I calmed down.Tickingclocker, you missed my obvious point: other false sources of spiritual truths promise that reading their book will give you a divinely imparted inner assurance that their book is true. So the claim that the Bible is a self-authenticating book is a common ploy that merely begs the question.
And Lazarus Short, Mormons would reply that the gold tablets need not be produced for the simple reason that God promises the confirm the truth of the Book of Mormon in your heart. So Christians need more than the argument that the Bible is a self-authenticating book.
Tickingclocker, you missed my obvious point: other false sources of spiritual truths promise that reading their book will give you a divinely imparted inner assurance that their book is true. So the claim that the Bible is a self-authenticating book is a common ploy that merely begs the question.
And Lazarus Short, Mormons would reply that the gold tablets need not be produced for the simple reason that God promises the confirm the truth of the Book of Mormon in your heart. So Christians need more than the argument that the Bible is a self-authenticating book.
Now you are in tune, Jason0047. Blessings!
"Righttruth, post: 69737498, member: 373052"]That includes me because we are far off from the preaching of Jesus, yet many claim assured salvation for the rest of their lives. Jesus said that only those who endure till the end will be saved. That is what I believe. I don't want to take the position of God, and self-proclaim that I have been saved for good.
----What end? When we die? When we see Him coming in the clouds? You keep claiming churches don't preach Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, yet you never give even your own instances of encountering this. Those are pretty broad brush strokes, don't you think? Just a tad bit too overbroad, if you ask me, to accept as true artwork.
If you don't wish to "take the position of God, and self-proclaim that you have been saved for good", that is your right. But please don't assume, because you believe this, you suddenly have been given special dispensation to determine that everyone should view the Word of God as "you" do. Does the Lord advise in His Word, "let everyone work out their own salvation"? It doesn't say, "let you work out everyone else's salvation for them". Put down the paintbrush.
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is working in you, both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(Phil 2:12, 13)
Striving for perfection is not a one time job. It is not my determination, but it is the directive and will of Jesus. You know, people have formed their own tight compartments, like, castes in Hinduism deceiving themselves that they have the absolute truth with a closed mind.
----"Striving" (as you dub it) for holiness is a minute by minute act of love for Jesus Christ done in faith. I agree. So if God is not finished with the perfecting of us or our brothers and sisters in the Lord (as informed in the above verse) should we be criticizing ourselves or them for not being who WE expect them to be at any given point? Isn't that a form of self-pride, comparing ourselves among ourselves? Should we be constructively encouraging and admonishing each other to understand we are New Creations, and what that means in the power of the Lord (not in our own power)? Of course. We should not, however, be demeaning or diminishing each other while subtlety promoting ourselves as somehow "better". Should we. Doesn't do anyone any spiritual good to do so.
We are not Hindus, nor do churches promote a caste system of absolute truth. I really haven't encountered anything like this so far, so have no reference for it.
I have heard of astonishingly bitter fights among church organizations, but have also heard how these fights eventually brought about closer unity between them. Do you see Catholics and Protestants murdering each other today, for a well-known instance? God is still working on us. Allow Him His own timing, will you? We humans are not exactly those who utilize our listening skills as quickly as His other creations, do we? I can't think of any denomination which believes they have "all" of God's truth. It's outside-the-fringe churches which insist such a thing is possible, of themselves alone. If you could give an instance of this mindset being in Christian churches, it would help. If you can. I don't think so, but feel free to have a go!
What better advice one would get other than from the words of Jesus? They only want hear alternative choices. I consider Sigmund Freud is a fraud.
----No, they don't want alternative choices, which is why they are seeking God. Because they know alternatives have miserably failed them (as we all have). They are seeking God. Perhaps the reason you cannot see that is because they are not seeking God as "you" would have them to? IDK, but think it over. You are not in their situations. They are not you, and you are not their God. You dismiss everyone's pain and floundering in the waves in one breezy sentence, when you could have been constructively praying for any one them in love? Have you? We all have just so much time to spend in this forum. We cannot answer everyone, to constructively admonish, encourage, strengthen, offer the hope in the Lord to. But we can answer some, read some and pray for them--all. Consider that when you have a few extra moments. It is in God's Will, after all. No need to worry about "love one another" being correct or not.
Is he is qualified for advice when he himself overburdened with his family encumbrances and other interests?
----Are you qualified to pass judgment on your pastor? On anyone? Are you God? Wow. Just.... wow.
Perfection and holiness are not a piece of cake. They are not just beliefs; they need to be practiced. There is no end to it.
----Being perfected is a light yoke according to Jesus Christ. His yoke is easy, His burden is light. I believe Him, finding He wasn't lying! The single thing you did get right is, it is eternal. That it is. So, in your best interests, please, please put that too broad paintbrush down you have so tightly gripped in your hand. It doesn't seem to be doing you any genuine spiritual good. In fact, it sounds like its bitterness is atrophying your heart. You are missing out on so much spiritual joy! Open trusting hands are what truly praise God. Not hands clenched around silly paint brushes dipped in useless mournful indignation.
I do not know every other non-Christian religion out there, but the ones I do know; all have a system for moving up a “spiritual ladder” to a higher position and even some “Christian” denominations ascribe to this believe. The idea is you join the belief at some lower level and move up and/or assure your position by: good deeds, contributing more (money), added knowledge, memorizing more, “working” harder, becoming more spiritual and/or taking on more responsibility. They might suggest: you spend less time working off your bad deeds in some purgatory place; you move to a higher heaven level closer to God; have a more glorious place in heaven, have a bigger mansion in heaven, or finally move out of the reincarnation cycle.
True Christianity is different in that the moment you become a “Believer” you are given everything up front with the exception of living in heaven at that moment, but instead of going to heaven immediately the Christian has a birthright to heaven that cannot be taken away, lost or stolen and even God will not take it back.
That does not mean the individual that has the birthright cannot “give it away or sell it on the cheap” like Esau did with his birthright.
The only reason for doing good stuff is out of pure gratitude (Love). It is the privilege and honor of every Christian to remain on earth for a while helping others (really allowing the indwelling Holy Spirit to work through them helping others). By using the Godly type Love they have been given, their Love can grow while here on earth, so they could enter heaven with greater Love, but does the fact those individuals Love me more than I love them mean they have a greater reward?
I agree that how we live is important thing, but I think scriptures are also. Obviously any book can be claimed to be Gods word. In that case it is good to check what is said and would you keep as your god person who allegedly produced the words. I don’t know any other book that has Gods words that I would keep my God, because other books are not as wise and knowing as the Bible.
One reason why I think Bible God words are superior is that He knew things long before they happen and He has something meaningful to say. For example Bible knew what happens to Jews long before things happened
I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you: and your land will be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
Leviticus 26:33
Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them; for I am Yahweh their God; but I will for their sake remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am Yahweh.'"
Leviticus 26:44-45
It shall happen, when all these things are come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations, where Yahweh your God has driven you, and shall return to Yahweh your God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul; that then Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If any of your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:
Deuteronomy 30:1-4
Bible has much knowledge that I think people would not have without God. I don’t know any other religious book that comes even close to that. So, even if the other books would be from “god”, I wouldn’t keep those as my God, because there is not much that they say and not much that shows that the person is greater than any regular man.
"Righttruth, post: 69739617, member: 373052"]Why should our imperfection be passed on to the Lord? Shall I take that the observation and assessment of the Lord on the seven churches (barring one) is unfair in the book of Revelation?
----We ARE imperfect. I'm sure you don't consider yourself perfect either. Your really stretching it now. Why? Who is referencing churches in Revelation? You are the one intimating "all" churches of today are corrupt. Stick to your own subject please.
That is a complacent attitude which is a very dangerous trend. I know I am imperfect and feel guilty about it. It is not, it is OK with what we are. That is a dead Christianity.
----How can I be "complacent" when I've found nothing to be complacent about? I don't go by my "feelings" when it comes to my faith, that God is still working in my life and in others, drawing us closer to Him each day. I go by HIS Word which promises He WILL draw us nearer to Him. Trusting God should be the basis of every believers faith in Him. Not human feelings which change with the weather.
Even God doesn't impart unconditional love. In our striving we all need to think of course corrections all the time.
---On the contrary, God's love for every believer is unconditional once the believer accepts the offer of His love and grace through faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. If you prefer not to believe that, that is your right, too. I do believe it. We can "think" all we want, but without the power of God we can do nothing to change our course. Can we?
You know how some churches think that believing Paul's letters make them Full Gospel churches, especially by speaking gibberish. Who they are trying to imitate, Jesus or Paul? Would like join them with their acrobatic displays and false claims of the Holy Spirit involvement when it is their own uncontrolled spirits? Yes, of course, I agree even there, they have merits in other aspects. But there cannot be different truths.
----No, I don't know of any of these churches you've accused of "believing Paul's letters make them 'Full Gospel' churches" let alone which use "gibberish". I'm not being contrary here. Just honestly have never witness for myself such places.WHICH churches are you talking about, specifically? Go ahead. Name them if you can IF that's what you believe. Step out on your convictions here to see if they hold any weight. Are you speaking of Pentecostal churches here, calling them out on their practices? Stop speaking in mysterious accusing tones then, if that is the case, and have the decency and courage to say so. If you cannot, then why should we accept what you say?
There is only one truth which saves. Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord. Doctrine does not save. Doctrine is not my Savior. Jesus Christ is. I can honestly say I have never been in a church that didn't preach Jesus Christ, except in the outside-the-fringe church I grew up in. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of Christianity, but a creature of one man's imagination. They preach a form "of" Jesus, but deny His power in favor of their own.
Don't you realize the pastors of Protestant churches don't answer the call of Jesus; it is Paul's directive with a few advantageous verses.
----No, I do NOT see pastors of Protestant churches refusing to answer the salvation call of Jesus Christ with or without Paul's writings. (I don't see Paul avoiding the subject either, for that matter.) I see them proclaiming Jesus Christ above all.
Through Paul, yes, as well as James, John, Luke, Mark, Jude, and pretty much from every OT book. One pastor I had used Deborah the Prophetess-Judge in Judges to reveal Jesus Christ once. If you are watching televangelists on TV and comparing their practices to scripture, I can give no real response. I cannot agree with you about pastors not preaching Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord because I've never encountered such a thing. Churches which promote humanity's view of sin vs. God's view of sin? That is a reality. A few do. Not as many as you are suggesting, however. And again, I've only heard of two which do (Unitarian Universalist and United Church of Christ). Not actually witnessed them in action for myself thus far, so this is only hearsay.
That is your judgement. He will say to many that He never knew them.
----All churches are the Lord's full possession to deal with, being under His judgment. Not yours and not mine. Pray for them. Have you? Because that is something I have witnessed. Those who hone in on everyone else's flaws, accusing them of every negative thing they can, diverting their focus from their own selves. It indeed becomes a personal hobby horse for some. In the end none of their endless complaints do them or anyone else any eternal good. Inevitably it is revealed that the spiritual tool chest of the complainers of this world is devoid of all believing prayer, whether for themselves or for anyone else.
Sorry, you are not seeing the reality here. A wishful thinking or hope is not an assured thing.
----Hope is always assured when from the Lord. Don't be sorry for me. Not any longer!
Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the man who hopes in Him. (Ps 34:8)
Blessed is the man whose hope is in the name of the Lord, and who has not regarded vanities, nor turned aside to lies. (Ps 40:4)
But I will hope continually, and will praise You more and more. (Ps 71:14)
And hope does not put to shame, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Rom 5:5)
Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, stay sober, put your hope fully in the grace brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; (1 Pet 1:13)
Good point. If the first step isn't taken,.....But have they answered the call of Jesus in the first place by giving up all?
I've seen disciples known thus,Agreed. Jesus said, "they will know you are my disciples by your love for one another".
I've seen disciples known thus,
though very rare in the usa.(and NEVER on the internet; only a few witnesses of where it was, when it was) .
So , when people don't have and can't see an example ,
what are they to do ?
But that's not the point.
"THEY" will know the disciples of Jesus by the love they have for one another. (not emotion; not feelings).
"THEY" do know this
in few places on earth, where "THEY" see it....
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