How to prove God exists.

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is archaeology you know, not just Hollywood.

You didn't answer the question.

Are you really going to deny that the american "pioneers" mass slaughtered native americans and stole their land?

 

[just a believing guy]

Another random comment that completely misses the point being made.
Or is it a random comment to distract from the point being made? Not sure.

Nobody is talking about apes "imitating" humans.
Great apes are self-aware, regardless of humans. It's just the way it is.

Then, correct the capitalizing of Great Apes and write great apes as you should have done; no need of idolizing of the great apes.

 

[just a believing guy]

You didn't answer the question.

Are you really going to deny that the american "pioneers" mass slaughtered native americans and stole their land?

No, how could I deny this. But, on the other hand there is the ''white'' side of the story. Whitemen were oftentimes being persecuted by hostile native Americans as well.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Atheism
I am referring to gnostic, militaristic atheists who do vehemently assert that there positively is no God.

Who are these atheists?
Are there any of them on this board?

About atheism consisting of absolutely no beliefs whatsoever.

Please note that isf that were literally true then atheism would be undefinable.

No. It is extremely easy to define: it is the position of not believing the claims of theism.
That's it. There's no need or reason to complicate matters with all kinds of irrelevant qualifiers.

Obviously that isn't the case and the beliefs of those who claim to be atheists are always used to provide a definition.

Clearly, not always. Look above. I just defined it without appealing to any belief whatsoever. .

Disbelief in something or a declaration that one doesn't know one ay or the other constitutes a belief or an opinion if you prefer. So you are logically contradicting yourself.

No. Not believing X, is not a belief.
Just not like playing soccer, is not a hobby.

A belief is to accept something as true.
I don't accept the claims of theism as true. That, and that alone, defines me as an atheist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How would I give proof? How do any give proof that anything can come from absolute nothing?

How is that relevant to the OP question?

This being illogical is why I am certain of the necessary existence that is explanatory of further existence being made.

Not sure what you are saying here.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But darwinian evolution is stated to have no reason or end goal for what it's doing - it's just mindlessly happening

So? And you are now moving the goalposts.
You asked about the reason for the development of self-awareness.
Now, you are asking about the "reason of the reason".

No, there is no apparant "cosmic purpose" to the process of evolution.
There is an explanation of why the process happens. It's kind of an inevitable outcome, when you have systems that reproduce with variation and compete with peers over limited resources.

If that's true then there actually can't be a reason for why/how we're self-aware,

It seems you're using the word "reason" in a different way.
I'm talking about "reason" in the explanatory sense.

You seem to be fixated on some kind of "cosmic purpose" / "grand plan" kind of thing.
Not really seeing the point in doing that.

which means there's no truth to be discovered about it, which means any effort to discover the truth is futile, which means all science is futile.

lol

It's not difficult to see why people reject the notion that we're merely a result of mindless happenstance.

Indeed, it's not difficult at all to see why: ignorance and religious bias.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Then, correct the capitalizing of Great Apes and write great apes as you should have done; no need of idolizing of the great apes.

And more irrelevant nonsense that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point being made.

Once more, great apes are self-aware, regardless of humans. It's just the way it is.

 

[just a believing guy]

And more irrelevant nonsense that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point being made.

Once more, great apes are self-aware, regardless of humans. It's just the way it is.

Self-awareness has nothing to do with mankind comparing itself with the great apes. Great apes are great apes and humans are humans.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, how could I deny this.

Then stop arguing about it and don't pretend as if the "western man brought civilization" to them. What they brought to them, was desease and death.

Which is about the same thing they brought to just about all western "colonies".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Self-awareness has nothing to do with mankind comparing itself with the great apes. Great apes are great apes and humans are humans.

1. Humans ARE great apes.

2. this came up some posts ago, before you started derailing it, as a reply to a post where it was insinuated that self-awareness in humans is somehow special / unique and requires extra-ordinary explanation. By pointing out that all great apes are self-aware, I showed that to be flawed reasoning.

 

[just a believing guy]

Then stop arguing about it and don't pretend as if the "western man brought civilization" to them. What they brought to them, was desease and death.

Which is about the same thing they brought to just about all western "colonies".

This is simply not true. How about the many ''Indians'' who were helping the whites survive when they came to the newly established settlements? How about the ''Indian'' scouts who were helping the whites fright ''Indian'' people? Because, without these scouts the final victory of the whites would have been impossible.

It's just the same with the Portuguese slave trade. Black Africans were enslaving their countrymen and selling them to the whites.

 

[just a believing guy]

1. Humans ARE great apes.

2. this came up some posts ago, before you started derailing it, as a reply to a post where it was insinuated that self-awareness in humans is somehow special / unique and requires extra-ordinary explanation. By pointing out that all great apes are self-aware, I showed that to be flawed reasoning.

The mere fact that great apes are classified as self-aware, doesn't by default mean that humans should compare themselves with them in any way; the human self-awareness runs much deeper, just like the silent water. The big apes have no ''silent water'' to ''run deep''.

 

[VirOptimus]

The mere fact that great apes are classified as self-aware, doesn't by default mean that humans should compare themselves with them in any way; the human self-awareness runs much deeper, just like the silent water. The big apes have no ''silent water'' to ''run deep''.

Humans are apes. This is by definition and not arguable.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is simply not true. How about the many ''Indians'' who were helping the whites survive when they came to the newly established settlements?

Where are those "Indians" today?

How about the ''Indian'' scouts who were helping the whites fright ''Indian'' people? Because, without these scouts the final victory of the whites would have been impossible.

You're just confirming my point.

It's just the same with the Portuguese slave trade. Black Africans were enslaving their countrymen and selling them to the whites.

Perhaps the "morally superior christian westerners" could have told them "slavery is evil"?

 

[just a believing guy]

Where are those "Indians" today?



You're just confirming my point.



Perhaps the "morally superior christian westerners" could have told them "slavery is evil"?

They are in reservation camps, drinking alcohol. As their body lacks the enzymes to dissolve it properly, as in whites' body, they are very much more prone to chronic alcoholism.

How am I confirming your point? There were traitors in the ranks of the ''Indians'' who won the victory over their countrymen is all I said.

The Christian westerners had Christianity and could have easily disengaged themselves from slave trade anytime they wanted to or felt the spiritual need to do so. But, the voodoo religion wouldn't give such a possibility to the blacks.

 

[just a believing guy]

Humans are apes. This is by definition and not arguable.

Not so, according to recent science, humans are primates, yet zillions of times more different than other primates.

 

[VirOptimus]

Not so, according to recent science, humans are primates, yet zillions of times more different than other primates.

You dont understand scientific classification. This is not up for debate, learn the science.

 

[Kylie]

According to the Bible proving that God exists shouldn't be even necessary since it is described as being so obvious that anyone denying it has absolutely no valid excuse to be doing so.

It is so obvious that the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists (BBHHH) that I'm not even going to explain why.

Do you see why this argument doesn't work?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They are in reservation camps, drinking alcohol. As their body lacks the enzymes to dissolve it properly, as in whites' body, they are very much more prone to chronic alcoholism.

So much for "civilization" being brought to them, ey?

How am I confirming your point? There were traitors in the ranks of the ''Indians'' who won the victory over their countrymen is all I said.

You are confirming the point that westerners didn't go there to "bring civilization".
They went there to simply take the land and its resources, at the expense of the natives.

The Christian westerners had Christianity and could have easily disengaged themselves from slave trade anytime

Nevermind that they defended the practice by waving the OT regulations of slavery.

they wanted to or felt the spiritual need to do so. But, the voodoo religion wouldn't give such a possibility to the blacks.

lol, ow my...

this is becoming borderline racist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The mere fact that great apes are classified as self-aware, doesn't by default mean that humans should compare themselves with them in any way; the human self-awareness runs much deeper, just like the silent water. The big apes have no ''silent water'' to ''run deep''.

You are still doing your outmost best to derail the point being made.

Someone was implying that self-awareness requires extra-ordinary explanation and that it is some kind of unique human thingy.

It does not and it is not.
All great apes are self-aware.

And obviously, it's perfectly legit to compare great apes with great apes when it comes to traits shared by all great apes. Just like it is perfectly legit to compare mammals to mammals when it comes to traits shared by all mammals.