How to not fool yourself

[AV1611VET]

I thought I'd take a drive today instead.

Not in this car, I hope:

 

[AV1611VET]

Can you answer this question by Abraham Lincoln?
"If you count a tail as a leg, how many legs does a cow have?"
If you can, then you know why names don't matter to reality.

Abraham Lincoln was a little before Harold Cook's time.

?

From nine planets, back to eight.

You missed it one more time. The Bible isn't about making testable predictions about the physical universe; therefore, the Bible is not part of science.

Trying to use the Bible as a science book is like trying to use Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.

 

[partinobodycular]

Science can't test the Bible, therefore the Bible ultimately can't be trusted.

This inability to test the bible isn't limited just to science, it extends to any field, from child rearing to working on the Sabbath. Once your authority becomes "because the bible tells me so", your credibility vanishes.

And you end up with not only science, but every other attempt at rational thought being summarily dismissed with... IT CAN TAKE A HIKE.

I'm sorry, but I don't care what authority the bible claims to have, I'm going to test it.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's been a long and productive hike since the Ionian Greeks got it underway.

God is the One who got science underway, and imparted it to Adam.

The Serpent came along and used it to deceive Eve into disobedience.

By the time the Tower of Babel incident came around, science was progressing too rapidly, and God stunted its growth by confounding their language.

Later, Aristotle would also stunt the growth of science for 2000 years.

 

[The Barbarian]

Can you answer this question by Abraham Lincoln?
"If you count a tail as a leg, how many legs does a cow have?"
If you can, then you know why names don't matter to reality.

Abraham Lincoln was a little before Harold Cook's time.

The correct answer is "four." It doesn't matter what you call a leg. There are four of them.

From nine planets, back to eight.

Eris is a dwarf planet, more massive than Pluto. So logically, we'd have to start adding planets if you want Pluto in the planet list. At least ten by your standard. Or we could include those distant Pluto-like objects in their own class. Which is what was done.

Trying to use the Bible as a science book is like trying to use Bill Gate's diary as a computer manual.

But people constantly try.

 

[AV1611VET]

This inability to test the bible isn't limited just to science, it extends to any field, from child rearing to working on the Sabbath. Once your authority becomes "because the bible tells me so", your credibility vanishes.

Oh, really?

Speaking of child rearing:

 

[The Barbarian]

God is the One who got science underway, and imparted it to Adam.

Nope. Science is a specific method. A man-made method. God has no need of science.

The Serpent came along and used it to deceive Eve into disobedience.

The Serpent was a Biblical literalist. He told Eve she would not die if she ate from the tree. And of course, she wouldn't die physically, because that isn't the kind of death God was talking about. He deceived her by telling her part of the truth, saying that she would become like God.

By the time the Tower of Babel incident came around, science was progressing too rapidly, and God stunted its growth by confounding their language.

Funny, it wasn't a problem in the Roman world. Lots of languages,but scientists of all nations communicated effectively. Still do today.

Later, Aristotle would also stunt the growth of science for 2000 years.

The Ionians came along after Aristotle, and began what we now recognize as science.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm sorry, but I don't care what authority the bible claims to have, I'm going to test it.

Test to your heart's content.

Others have as well.

2 Kings 2:16 And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.
17 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

Be sure and look for footprints on the Sea of Galilee, where Jesus walked on water.

And check out that empty tomb that really got the ball rolling!

 

[AV1611VET]

Eris is a dwarf planet, more massive than Pluto. So logically, we'd have to start adding planets if you want Pluto in the planet list.

Ain't that a shame?

Scientists having to add!

Let me point out for the second time:

The Periodic Table of the Elements had to be added to and added to and added to, and no one arked and sparked about it.

So what's the deal with Pluto that they had to violate their own bylaws and rig a vote to keep from having to add?

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope.

Yup.

Science is a specific method. A man-made method.

You're talking about the Scientific Method, which is just a part of science.

God has no need of science.

That's right.

But we do.

And God imparts it to us piecemeal.

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Daniel 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

My favorite example is oil.

Put into the earth as an "Easter egg" at creation, to be discovered with advanced science when the time was right.

 

[jayem]

Dress it up any way you want, it's still myopic.

It’s way more myopic to believe ancient Bible legends are more credible than modern scientific discoveries.

 

[AV1611VET]

It’s way more myopic to believe ancient Bible legends are more credible than modern scientific discoveries.

Expecting the Bible to contain scientific discoveries is like expecting Bill Gate's diary to contain computer upgrades.

 

[The Barbarian]

You're talking about the Scientific Method, which is just a part of science.

No. Science is the method. There's nothing other than that. The body of knowledge is just the result. But what most people think is the "scientific method" is only part of the methodology. Sometimes, it's just collecting facts, with no experimentation whatever.

 

[The Barbarian]

Let me point out for the second time:

The Periodic Table of the Elements had to be added to and added to and added to, and no one arked and sparked about it.

Yes, adding or even deleting an element would be no big deal. For some reason, non-scientists get all exercised about reclassifying a minor planet. Go figure.

So what's the deal with Pluto that they had to violate their own bylaws and rig a vote to keep from having to add?

It has no force at all. If you want to add dwarf planets to your planet list, no one will stop you. There might be a lot of them out there, which is why they probably deserve a class of their own.

 

[sjastro]

And I'll bet your department didn't have to rig a vote, violate its bylaws, keep key people out, and rile your governing bodies to do it, either ... did they?

What was the motivation of rigging the vote; who profited from reclassifying Pluto?
The answer is you don't know and real motivation is your pathological hatred of science as shown in your attempts of digging up dirt on scientists by using the IAU reclassification of Pluto.

If you want to see an example for the case of not reclassifying Pluto take a look at this video from a physicist.
As a warning the video is on the slow side so fast forward to around the 21 minute mark when she makes her case.
There is no vote rigging, no violation of bylaws, no conspiracy theories in her argument, just putting forward her case using science.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you want to see an example for the case of not reclassifying Pluto take a look at this video from a physicist.
As a warning she is incredibly boring so fast forward to around the 21 minute mark when she makes her case.
There is no vote rigging, no violation of bylaws, no conspiracy theories in her argument, just putting forward her case using science.

Thank you, Astro.

Looking forward to watching it; but not right now.

I'll comment on it afterwards, fair enough?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Someone once pointed out that the Periodic Table once started out with about ten elements.
It is now 120 or so.
What's the problem with naming other planets in our solar system?

Fun fact: cerium, palladium and plutonium are all three named after things that aren't planets anymore.

 

[sjastro]

Fun fact: cerium, palladium and plutonium are all three named after things that aren't planets anymore.

To make the list complete Uranus should be reclassified as well.

 

[essentialsaltes]

To make the list complete Uranus should be reclassified as well.

 

[sjastro]

View attachment 341006

Wow that was a quicksilver response.