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How to have real repentance, real conversion and a real relationship with Jesus?

Discussion in 'Requests for Christian Advice' started by TruthSeek3r, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Well-Known Member

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    I recently posted a thread titled Top reasons for deconversion and how to counteract them? (feel free to check it out). One member made a very insightful comment on post#3:

    "I don't think you can reduce real Christianity to a mind game that comes and goes.
    Real conversion establishes a permanent change in our identity, we are transferred from one spiritual kingdom to another and given the power to become son's and daughters of God.
    His indwelling presence seals our salvation.
    It is much more than giving mental assent to a philosophy.
    For this reason I conclude that real faith cant be lost - it is a relationship with Jesus Himself and nothing can seperate us from His Love."
    This has led me to ask the follow-up questions of this thread: How to have a real, genuine conversion? How to have a real, genuine repentance? And how to have a real, genuine relationship with Jesus Christ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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  2. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    Rely on Him, not on yourself. Keep falling down, keep getting up. Make an effort to stay in touch with Him and grow, even if you don’t feel like it. Realize you are a work in progress; you will still sin, still have bad days, still wrestle with doubts, and still struggle with the most basic things. That is ok.

    Look to Christ daily. Repent hourly. Trust in Him, and He will help you, even you can’t feel it. Don’t rely too much on your emotions to gage your spiritual health. Understand that the journey is a part of how Christ saves us. Let Him save you. He loved you enough to die for you; you are not worthless.
     
  3. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Easy real repentance is when you are doing a particular sin again and again, then you stop doing this sin for good. Then you have repented from that sin.
     
  4. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It starts with real genuine LOVE.
    Blessings.
     
  5. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Conversion is not really the best way to look at what God is offering.

    First God is offering to people the free gift of Eternal Life. That is received when a person believes Jesus is the promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh and trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

    After a person has become a believer then they can focus on pleasing and serving God and man, in actions of love, humility and service.
     
  6. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Eccentric Eclectic Existentialist at work! Supporter

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    Probably the first thing in having a "real" conversion is for us to qualify what "real" means ...
     
  7. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Well-Known Member

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    Good point. Do you think there is an answer to that question?
     
  8. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Yeshua/Jesus Christ is real. As Sis said and praise GOD .. rely on Him not you. Its Him. Its real.. He sets you free..we don't set our selfs free. What He starts.. He finishes. Read you in that? Lol yes we have some say in this yet.. He again is so real.

    I like the song playing now "Rest for your soul". Austin French

    Are you tired and troubled?
    Weighed down by a heavy load?
    Praying for change, searching for faith
    Waiting on a miracle
    Are you drowning in questions?
    Can't believe where the road has lead
    There's one who knows, the heavy you hold
    And He says
    "Come to me
    All who are weary and heavy burdened
    All who are hurting
    Come to me
    I'll be your shelter
    My yoke is easy, my load is light
    And you can find rest for your soul
    Rest for your soul"
     
  9. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    How to have a real, genuine conversion?

    Beloved one, let us consider what our Lord Jesus Himself have said, that we may understand a real, genuine conversion:

    “For this people's heart is waxed gross,
    And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed;

    Lest at any time they should see with their eyes,
    And hear with their ears,
    And should understand with their heart,
    And should be CONVERTED, and I should heal them.”
    ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Beloved one, from what we heard our Lord have said, — what should be converted?

    The first parentheses, He started with the heart, then said about the eye and the ear. In the second parentheses, He started talking about eye, ear, and ended talking about the heart and said about being converted?

    Beloved one, our Lord is not talking about heart, eye, and ear separately but as one, that is, the heart.

    So what should be converted is the heart. So what should be healed ? Also, the heart.

    So as to have a real, genuine conversion, the ear of the heart must NOT BE DULL OF HEARING and the eye of the heart must NOT CLOSE, that the eye of the heart may see and the ear of the heart may hear.

    How then the ear of our hearts should hear and the eye of our hearts should see ? This is what we have heard our Lord said:

    “that seeing they may see, and not PERCEIVE ; and hearing they may hear, and not UNDERSTAND; lest at any time they should be CONVERTED, and their sins should be forgiven them.”
    ‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    So the eye of our hearts should see PERCEIVE and the ear of our hearts should hear to UNDERSTAND, and our hearts should understanding, that our hearts APPLY this understanding.

    But with what we should be CONVERTED?

    So before Mark 4:12, our Lord said :
    “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know THE MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in PARABLES:”
    ‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    So with THE MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, the eye of our hearts should PERCEIVE and the ear of our hearts should UNDERSTAND, and our hearts apply this understanding, and our sins should be forgiven them, and our hearts should be healed as our Lord have said.

    So WITH THE MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, our hearts BE CONVERTED - that the ear of our hearts NOT BE DULL OF HEARING
    but BE BRIGHT OF HEARING
    and the eye of the heart must NOT CLOSE, but BE OPENED.

    What THE MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, our Lord HAVE SAID :

    “Verily I say unto you,
    Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭18:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    How we BE CONVERTED, and become as little children, we shall enter into the kingdom of God ?

    This is what we have heard:
    “This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a TEACHER come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

    Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

    Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

    That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

    The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.””
    ‭‭John‬ ‭3:2-8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    So our hearts, that is, CONVERTED, the hearts that understand the mystery of the kingdom of God, we became little children by giving ourselves to born again, that is, to be born of water and the Spirit, that we may enter the kingdom of God. So the kingdom of God is the kingdom of the Spirit, for we are born of the Spirit of God.

    So everyone who is born of the Spirit, have entered the kingdom of God.

    Beloved one, let us also consider our Lord have said to Simon Peter:

    “And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

    but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and WHEN thou art CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

    Lord said to Simon, Simon ; the meaning of the name of Simon as one who heard, and have heard the mystery of the kingdom of God to behold Satan had desired to have him, that Satan may sift him as wheat:

    but the Lord have prayed for him, that one’s faith fail not: and when one Be CONVERTED, that one strengthen one’s brethren.

    So we also should pray for those who have heard the mystery of the kingdom of God, that their faith fail not: and when they Be CONVERTED, that they strengthen their brethren.

    So when we BE CONVERTED ? When we heard the mystery of the kingdom and that our faith fail not.

    So how we heard the mystery of the kingdom and that our faith fail not ?

    This is what we have heard:
    “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and UNDERSTAND ALL MYSTERIES and all knowledge, and though I have all FAITH, so that I could remove mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE , I AM NOTHING.”
    ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    so though we may understand mystery of the kingdom of God and have all faith, but have not LOVE, we are nothing.

    For we heard:
    “LOVE NEVER FAILS. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.”
    ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    So when we BE CONVERTED ? When we heard the mystery of the kingdom of God and that our faith fail not because we have LOVE of Christ that never fails.

    So what must we do to BE CONVERTED? This is what we have heard:

    “REPENT therefore and BE CONVERTED , that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,”
    ‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

    So to be converted, we should first REPENT. So we need repentance, and be converted SO THAT OUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT.

    Having REPENTED and BE CONVERTED, brought to us TIMES OF REFRESHING that come from THE PRESENCE OF GOD.

    Beloved one, we are CONVERTED is WHEN we CONTINUOUSLY hear the mystery of the kingdom and that our faith fail not because we CONTINUOUSLY have LOVE of Christ that never fails.

    That we love the Heavenly Father as little children through Christ and have entered the spiritual kingdom, that is, the kingdom of God, for we are born of the Spirit of God.

    Having repented and BE CONVERTED, so that TIMES OF REFRESHING OF THE LOVE OF CHRIST that comes to us from the presence of God.

    So having the love of Christ that come from the presence of God, that refreshes the eye of our hearts to perceive and the ear of our hearts to understand the mystery of the kingdom of God, and apply this understanding.

    And let us be CONVERTED, and our Lord heal us.

    Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen
     
  10. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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  11. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    How to have a real, genuine conversion? By approaching God for salvation in the manner His word indicates:

    Knowledge - Hear (know) the Gospel. (Romans 10:14-17; Romans 1:16)
    Repentance - Change your mind about yourself, God and your need of a Savior. (Acts 3:19; Mark
    1:15; Luke 13:3,
    etc.)
    *Conviction - Be convinced of the truth of your sin, your need of a Savior, and the salvation found in
    Jesus Christ. (2 Timothy 1:12; 1 John 4:16)
    Confession - Agree with God about your sin and rebellion toward Him and that Christ is the only Way
    to reconciliation with God. (1 John 1:9; Matthew 10:32; 1 John 4:2-3)
    Trust - By faith, count on Christ to save you from the eternal penalty of your sins, bringing you into
    the family of God as a justified, sanctified co-heir with him. (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10;
    John 1:12; John 6:35,
    etc.)

    * (Conviction could be lumped in together with repentance, I think.)

    How does one experience real, genuine repentance?

    Crocodile Tears.

    How does one have a real, genuine relationship with Jesus Christ?

    Not Just Relationship, Fellowship.
     
  12. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    What do you generally understand "real" to mean - particularly in the way you used it in your OP?
     
  13. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Well-Known Member

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    I just borrowed the word 'real' from the OP's quote. The person who posted that comment believes in the existence of "real" conversions, implying that "fake" conversions exist as well. This leads to the subsequent question of how to judge if a conversion is "real" or "fake", which in turn requires defining what "real" and "fake" mean in the first place. I'm leaving that as an open task for people who decide to post an answer.
     
  14. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    You have no view of your own on the question of what "real" is?
     
  15. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Well-Known Member

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    My personal, vague stance is that for the phenomenon to be "real" or "genuine" God has to be supernaturally involved, otherwise it wouldn't be a spiritual experience. A "real" conversion cannot just be merely reduced to an intellectual/philosophical exercise (a change of intellectual beliefs) or a change of habits (as in psychological therapy) only. Otherwise we would have to say that secular psychotherapy produces "genuine" conversions, which wouldn't make sense.

    Now, how can a person know that they themselves have personally experienced a "genuine" conversion? I think in order to answer this question you would need to answer another, more basic question: how can you tell the difference between psychology and spirituality? How can you know if something is spiritual and not merely psychological?
     
  16. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Can they not overlap? Does the spiritual not include the psychological, the mind? You appear to think they do which is, of course, quite biblical:

    Isaiah 1:18
    18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.


    Philippians 2:5
    5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus
    ,

    Romans 8:6
    6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.


    Romans 12:2
    2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.


    1 Corinthians 14:15
    15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.


    Ephesians 4:20-24
    20 But you did not learn Christ in this way,
    21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus,
    22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
    23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
    24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.


    Scripture appears to indicate that there is significant overlap. How would one be spiritual without conscious thought? Without reason and cognition? A person in a coma cannot have a spiritual experience of God, right? As you seem to recognize, it would be a false dichotomy to sharply separate the spiritual from the psychological.

    What does a spiritual experience of God look like?

    How Do I Know I'm Really Born Again?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
  17. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do believe they can overlap. But you shouldn't be able to fully reduce a genuine spiritual experience to a mere materialist, psychological/neurological explanation. Any attempt to do so should be doomed to fail because it would be missing the supernatural aspect of the experience.

    How could you possibly justify this claim? What about near-death experiences? What if the person had spiritual experiences but they don't remember them after the coma, etc.?

    Do you think the changes listed in your post can be obtained through psychotherapy or any other secular self-help techniques? In other words, are there supernatural aspects in your list that cannot possibly be achieved through natural means, even if the person resorts to the best techniques/therapies that the mental health sciences have to offer?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
  18. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    Call on His name and He will come into you...
     
  19. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Are you born again?
     
  20. TruthSeek3r

    TruthSeek3r Well-Known Member

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    If I were, I should be able to know, right? So the very fact that I'm even asking these questions seems to indicate that I'm probably not ...

    I like your straight to the point style though.

    I think an important question to ask is this: if a person is born again, do they know it? Can a person be born again already and not know it?
     
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