How to explain 13.8 billion years?

[Meowzltov]

The bible genre is truth. Evilution is in the fiction dept.

Elvis has left the building.

 

[prodromos]

Jesus did not make new eyes out of clay in John 9. He made mud and anointed the man's eyes, meaning he blessed them.

Yes he did. Read the Church Fathers. The reason people had such a hard time recognising the man after his healing was due to him not having eyes before. Jesus healed others who were blind and there was never any controversy. This man's blindness was completely different.

 

[prodromos]

Elvis has left the building.

Evolution is bunk. There is an abundance of evidence for harmful mutations but when it comes to beneficial mutations, the cupboard is bare. They are pure fantasy.
Life on this planet is not evolving into something better and stronger, but is becoming weaker and weaker with every successive generation. Our genes are not gaining in complexity but are steadily losing information. We suffer from diseases unknown to our ancestors because we have become susceptible to things our ancestors were strong enough to resist.
Evolution is a lie which has been systematically pushed on us through a compromised education system, the sole purpose of which is to take away faith in God.
Elvis was never in the building.

 

[Meowzltov]

Yes he did. Read the Church Fathers. The reason people had such a hard time recognising the man after his healing was due to him not having eyes before. Jesus healed others who were blind and there was never any controversy. This man's blindness was completely different.

I see. Oral history. Well believe it if you like. It sill doesn't support your point.

 

[Meowzltov]

Elvis was never in the building.

I was using "Elvis" as a metaphor for you.

 

[SkyWriting]

Because that would mean God left evidence that the universe existed much longer, evidence that would confuse and deceive us. IOW God would be a liar. Which of course he is not.

God describes Adam and Eve as adults. That is evidence that they were.
God describes the garden of Eden as aged and fully formed.
This is evidence that they were fully formed. (aged)
God describes trees in the garden as producing fruit.
What is describes as the first week, by some, is described as fully aged.
Nothing in scripture suggests or even hints that creation is young.
SO where is this "lying" idea comming from?

5 Before Him goes pestilence, And plague comes after Him.
6 He stood and surveyed the earth; He looked and startled the nations.Yes,
the perpetual mountains were shattered,
The ancient hills collapsed.
His ways are everlasting.

14 And with the choice yield of the sun, And with the choice produce of the months. 15 "And with the best things of the
ancient mountains,
And with the choice things
of the everlasting hills,
16 And with the choice things of the earth and its fullness,

everlasting -----olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity
Original Word: עוֹלָם
ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).


So if the mountains look ancient, and scripture says they are ancient, there is no deception.

 

[prodromos]

I see. Oral history. Well believe it if you like.

Truth is truth regardless of how it is transmitted.

It sill doesn't support your point.

I believe it does.

 

[prodromos]

I was using "Elvis" as a metaphor for you.

Your "Elvis" post was quoting someone else's post, not mine.

 

[Meowzltov]

God describes Adam and Eve as adults. That is evidence that they were.
God describes the garden of Eden as aged and fully formed.
This is evidence that they were fully formed. (aged)
God describes trees in the garden as producing fruit.
What is describes as the first week, by some, is described as fully aged.
Nothing in scripture suggests or even hints that creation is young.
SO where is this "lying" idea comming from?

You are describing a lying God. You are saying he has created a world that appears ancient but which has actually only been around 6000 or so years. IOW, a world designed to deceive us.

 

[SkyWriting]

You are describing a lying God. You are saying he has created a world that appears ancient but which has actually only been around 6000 or so years. IOW, a world designed to deceive us.

Scripture describes the mountains as
ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

Deuteronomy 33:15 ►
Text Analysis
Str Translit Hebrew English Morph
7218 [e] ū-mê-rōš וּמֵרֹ֖אשׁ for the chief things Noun
2042 [e] har-rê- הַרְרֵי־ mountains Noun
6924 [e] qe-ḏem; קֶ֑דֶם of the ancient Noun
4022 [e] ū-mim-me-ḡeḏ וּמִמֶּ֖גֶד for the precious things Noun
1389 [e] giḇ-‘ō-wṯ גִּבְע֥וֹת hills Noun
5769 [e] ‘ō-w-lām. עוֹלָֽם׃ of the lasting Noun

You not trusting scripture?
Deuteronomy 33:15"And with the best things of the ancient mountains, And with the choice things of the everlasting hills,

 

[Meowzltov]

Scripture describes the mountains as

So what? That's not the point. I have no issue with those verses. It's the verses that insinuate via genealogy that the earth is only about 6000 years old that I must insist not be taken literally.

 

[SkyWriting]

So what? That's not the point. I have no issue with those verses. It's the verses that insinuate via genealogy that the earth is only about 6000 years old that I must insist not be taken literally.

Nothing important in scripture is found in only one book.
This saves us a lot of time figuring out what is important.

 

[Meowzltov]

Nothing important in scripture is found in only one book.
This saves us a lot of time figuring out what is important.

Do you admit that the earth is billions of years old and not 6000?

 

[JackRT]

you get the idea.

No he doesn't and I don't think he ever will. This is a case of "Don't confuse me with facts. my mind is made up."

 

[prodromos]

You are describing a lying God. You are saying he has created a world that appears ancient but which has actually only been around 6000 or so years. IOW, a world designed to deceive us.

As I said before, it is only from a naturalistic position that it would seem deceptive. From a supernatural creation position, there is no deception, because we KNOW what the true age is as revealed by God. Natural science CANNOT be trusted to test the supernatural.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

So, Stars are condensed frozen Hydrogen?

LOL no, not "frozen". FUSION. And when I said "cooled", I was using the term very liberally, in a "relative-to-their-beginning" sense.

Stars are hot clouds of Hydrogen gas, being squashed back together under their own gravitational force, which fuses together the Hydrogen atoms, giving off radiation, light, heat, and other various kinds of energy.

At their core, stars are just Hydrogen atoms being smashed back together, following an original "dispersion" of super-heated hydrogen gas.

You picked out one word from my entire explanation and tried to make it sound ridiculous... that's kind of pathetic.

 

[BobRyan]

LOL no, not "frozen". FUSION. And when I said "cooled", I was using the term very liberally, in a "relative-to-their-beginning" sense.

Stars are hot clouds of Hydrogen gas, being squashed back together under their own gravitational force, which fuses together the Hydrogen atoms, giving off radiation, light, heat, and other various kinds of energy.

At their core, stars are just Hydrogen atoms being smashed back together, following an original "dispersion" of super-heated hydrogen gas.

You picked out one word from my entire explanation and tried to make it sound ridiculous... that's kind of pathetic.

Of course experimental science knows that gas does not collapse in a vacuum. What is more dust particles only clump together up until a very small fractional size - after which - no more clumping in that vacuum of space. Just very fast moving little chunks. As we STILL have in our own solar system to this very day.

And this whole center of gravity thing - still has to deal with the inverse proportion to the square of the distance rule (distance from the effective center of gravity) for each gas particle orbiting the sun and so many 1000's of km per hour. And BTW - subject to being heated by the sun.

The more it spreads out along that accretian disc - the less likely it is to want to self-ogranize into a planet with oceans and clouds and then horses.

Not a bit surprising to most Christians. But atheists take it kind of hard.

 

[BobRyan]

So what? That's not the point. I have no issue with those verses.

Hmmm the "judge of scripture"?

Which verses "do you have issues with"???

It's the verses that insinuate via genealogy that the earth is only about 6000 years old .

Take it up with God. Turns out... He is the author of those texts you have issues with according to Pope Peter - 2 Peter 1:20-21

 

[BobRyan]

ATheists of course don't mind saying "I know better than God" -- but Christians should try to avoid that sort of stuff.

 

[BobRyan]

Lucifer was Satan's name - given to him by God - before he became the devil.

This is an example of how folklore and myth can shape people's way they approach things. Here in this modern age with printed scripture for over 400 years and with the internet at our disposal people still cling to myth over knowledge that Satan's proper name is Lucifer.

Lucifer is a Latin word and in the Latin text it is used for both Satan and Jesus. It is just a regular word and it means light bearer but we would rather believe the myth and legend that it's Satan's proper name given to him before his fall. I would rather call Jesus Lucifer .

While it is true there is a tiny "hint" of truth in your statement - it concludes with gross error none-the-less.

As if you had never read Isaiah 14 in your life.

I prefer the actual Bible.

==================== Lucifer -- Satan-- the Devil
Isaiah 14

The Fall of Lucifer
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

18 “All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;
19 But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.
The brood of evildoers shall never be named.