How to explain 13.8 billion years?

SnowyMacie

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A lot of churches don't insist that the earth is only 6000 years old.

If you take all of Christianity, most churches don't insist that the Earth is only 6,000 years.
 
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Radrook

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Many in the church no longer insist that, nor believe that the Bible means what it appears to mean, because they believe it to be allegorical.
They believe the entire Bible is allegorical? Which denomination are you referring to?
 
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Radrook

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If God had created the universe and the solar system billions years before he created human beings,
why did he do so?
He doesn't experience time as we do.
 
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rockytopva

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The astronomers say the visible universe is 13.8 billion years old,
the vast distance can prove that.
Then, how valid is the Church to insist it is only 6000+ years old?

Yes... The universe is about 15 billion years. However, the earth just did not appear at the big bang. It had to expand out from a point of origin. This is the timetable that I would put together...

I believe that the universe is about 15 billions years old and is the result and in response to Lucifer's rebellion.

If... E = mc2 ... Then m (matter) = E/c2 (energy)

Therefore, for the big boom to have occurred the matter had to have been there before the light and energy (E/c2), as the scripture says...

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. - Genesis 1:2

I would imagine, with these words... 'Let there be light (Genesis 1:3)', that the earth (the mass) turned into energy and light (E/c2) and expanded out from a point of origin, turning into what solar systems the Father willed it to. So the plasma (E/c2) is actually mass that has changed state.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1:4,5

I believe that 15 billion years took place between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:4. God divided the light and the darkness by putting the earth in orbit around the sun thus creating the first day of the Earth's creation. But... The universe was created 15 billion years (give or take a few billion years) before that.

***So... The 7000 year theory, in my mind, begins after Genesis 1:3***

4300 - 2644 BC - Adam to the great flood: About 1,650 years
2644 - 1730 BC - The Patriarchs - From Noah to Joseph: About 1,000 years
1730 -1450 BC - From Joseph to Moses: So Joesphs bones were in Egypt about 300 years
1450 - 33 AD - The time of the Laws of Moses was about 1500 years.
33 - 66 AD Ephesus – Apostolic – 33 years, not long! “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
66 - 312 AD - Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions. Ended with Constantine
312 - 800 AD - Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
800-1450 AD Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. Began with Charlemange
1450-1700 AD Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
1700-1940 AD Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love. Anabaptists -Weslayan -Moravian
1940 - 2060 AD Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?
2060 - 3060 AD - The Millennial reign

The time of the horseman runs with the last couple of church ages...

1. White - Democracy - Came about along with the Philadelphian church
2. Red - Communism - Note the red flag, hammer and sickle.
3. Black - Islam - Note the desire to disrupt the global economy.
4. Pale - Anti-Christ - A brief 3.5 year reign.

Isaac Newton picked the 2060 AD end date and I will go along with him with the following disclaimer...

“And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half.” –Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.” – Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes…

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton
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Our God is an eternal being. 15 billion years between Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:5 is no big deal for him. I believe that God gave Lucifer free run of this known universe... But Lucifer's time is growing short. I think also, in 15 billion years, many of the fallen angels have lost track and forgotten their original state. The hearts are hopelessly hardened and quite evil!
 
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St_Worm2

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They believe the entire Bible is allegorical? Which denomination are you referring to?

My reference was to the Creation (and the other parts of the Bible that science and human reason tell us are impossible, I suppose), not the entire Bible. Sorry for the confusion.

My denomination takes no position on this, nor does it require its members to, but I myself am YEC, since becoming a Christian 30 years ago that is (so most allegorical interpretations of Genesis would not be ones I would choose to hold to personally).
 
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Jim Langston

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The astronomers say the visible universe is 13.8 billion years old,
the vast distance can prove that.
Then, how valid is the Church to insist it is only 6000+ years old?

Einstein has shown that light travels at a constant speed, the speed of light, but it has been hypothesized that the speed of light hasn't always been what it is now.

It has been theorized that the speed of light was faster in the past and has slowed down over time. Looking at some measurements of the speed of light over a hundred year period says that this may be right, or it msy be that the instruments in the past just weren't accurate enough.

If, indeed, the speed of light has been slowing down over time then that means the light from those distant galaxies traveled faster when they started so that the light from galaxies far away would of had time to get here in 6000 years.

A problem is that it is extremely difficult to determine if light is slowing down or not because we measure time based on the same measurements we measure light. Sonehow plink's constant is involved byt I don't understand enough physics to figure out how.

If this is true, then not only can't the time it took for the light to get here be figured out but also carbon dating would be thrown out of whack.

Just a theory I heard that would explain it.
 
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St_Worm2

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If God had created the universe and the solar system billions years before he created human beings, why did he do so?

Perhaps the better question is, if God did take billions of years to create the universe, what purpose did He have in fabricating the story He told us in Genesis about the Creation ;)

And why did He have Jesus and the Apostles (and the other Biblical writers) confirm it all again nearly 1,300 years later with no hint whatsoever that it might not be true?
 
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CodyFaith

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Exodus 20:9-11
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


Notice how it doesn't say or suggest "because God rested on the 7th increment of time, he also made us a 7th increment of time to rest on". No, it explains directly after giving us a command to rest on the Sabbath why we rest on the Sabbath... and what does it say that reason is? Because he rested on the Sabbath, blessed the Sabbath, hallowed it.

He didn't bless and make holy a 7th increment, one we currently live in according to that theory, and then also bless and sanctify a second 7th increment. The two are the same day, not separate entities.

Scripture does not allow for an old earth.
 
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Zoii

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Why do we have to take the bible so literally. It was never intended as an astronomers manual or a one-stop shop for scientists until the end of time. Its a book that provides a paradigm for spirituality. There is no point in checking the bible to repair your telephone, plot a course to mars or to determine the age of our nearest galaxy.... thats not the bible's purpose. So why refer to it when discussing the expanding universe, dark matter and the age of our known universe.
 
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St_Worm2

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Why do we have to take the bible so literally. It was never intended as an astronomers manual or a one-stop shop for scientists until the end of time. Its a book that provides a paradigm for spirituality. There is no point in checking the bible to repair your telephone, plot a course to mars or to determine the age of our nearest galaxy.... thats not the bible's purpose. So why refer to it when discussing the expanding universe, dark matter and the age of our known universe.

Hi Zoii, you are definitely correct, the Bible was never meant to be a science textbook. That said, there are many reasons why taking the Bible literally is important.

Perhaps first and foremost is this, if the Creation is considered to be nothing more than a "real nice story", but not true, why should we believe that any of the other "stories" God tells us in the Bible are true? The other question is, if you choose to believe that "some" of the stories in the Bible are true and others aren't (especially when the various stories we are considering are written in an equally believable manner), how do we determine which story is true and which one isn't :scratch:

There is also the matter of "assignments", which is particularly important when we are trying to decide who to "assign" the title of "Author of Evil" to. Because our sin is a universal trait among our race, we know that it has to have a single cause, and if our progenitors are not the cause (as the Bible tells us they are), that means that God must be :eek: IOW, if our race doesn't have "first parents" as the proximate cause of our fallen nature, then the way we are now (IOW, by nature, children of wrath .. Ephesians 2:3) is the way God made us!

These are but two of the reasons (and I hope that makes sense to you).

Yours in Christ,
David
 
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