How to explain 13.8 billion years?

[JackRT]

Man can't prove its 13+ billion. They just guess essentially. Which is funny when they say "Well you want me to guess God is real? How stupid!", and yet they guess how old the universe is.

Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence. The ToE is stronger, probably, than the BBT, but it's sort of like saying 'steel is fairly strong but titanium alloy is stronger' - either one will serve for tableware with no danger of failure due to stress. At this point there are no known major issues with either theory. Details to be filled in? Yes. Serious difficulties? No. Guesswork? Certainly not!

 

[dad]

Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence. The ToE is stronger, probably, than the BBT, but it's sort of like saying 'steel is fairly strong but titanium alloy is stronger' - either one will serve for tableware with no danger of failure due to stress. At this point there are no known major issues with either theory. Details to be filled in? Yes. Serious difficulties? No. Guesswork? Certainly not!

If there was no guesswork in the TOE, you would know the oldest ancestor you claim you came from. In reality, it is all guesswork and more like wet used tissue than steel. Evolution is applied godless philosophy that is religiously used to interpret all evidences. It may make sense and seem strong to those who are believers, but it is not externally sound. Only internally consistent.

 

[JacksBratt]

Evolution makes sense to the wisdom of men the same way a 6 year old can understand that a toaster makes toast.

However, the way the toaster was manufactured, the way electricity works to create heat the way the toaster knows when the toast is done, the way the company can make sure the toaster wears out just after the warranty period......

Mankind is so arrogant that they think they have it all figured out. Yet, the word of God told us how it happened.

Now, academia won't even tolerate anything that brings light on the fact that evolution is anything but a rock solid fact.

Research in this field is the quest to find facts that prove a given end...... not looking at all the facts and seeing what they tell us in the quest for an unknown end.

It's taking a bunch of puzzle pieces and forcing them together to make a predetermined desired shape instead of putting them together to see what shape was originally designed and created.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence. The ToE is stronger, probably, than the BBT, but it's sort of like saying 'steel is fairly strong but titanium alloy is stronger' - either one will serve for tableware with no danger of failure due to stress. At this point there are no known major issues with either theory. Details to be filled in? Yes. Serious difficulties? No. Guesswork? Certainly not!

What you mean is people who hold to the THEORY of evolution say that there is a lot of verifying evidence. In reality they fit the evidence to what they want it to mean and say it is proof. The missing link is also a fallacy, there are in reality lots of missing links. I believe it is still also the case that no one has ever found evidence of a mutation in a species that is beneficial to that species.

I do believe in creation, but as I said earlier, God could have created the world and living creatures using a process that is being interpreted as evolution so its a non-argument as to evidence of God's existence.

 

[JackRT]

What I have been seeing here is a lot of claims about science and the motives of scientists. I am a retired scientist, mathematician and educator. In almost sixty years I have never encountered any of the basic dishonesty of scientists that has been alluded to in the last two posts.

I have a question: "is lying for what you perceive is a good cause still a lie?"

 

[Hallstone]

The astronomers say the visible universe is 13.8 billion years old,
the vast distance can prove that.
Then, how valid is the Church to insist it is only 6000+ years old?

Creational Perception Ratio, basically what it means is that something can appear to be old and really not be, for instance: Two minutes after Adam was created, he appeared to be 6.5 million times older than he actually was. The same perception ratio can be applied to the Earth, Universe, basically any created thing. Plus if you add the fact that God can create it any way He wants then that in itself adds a dimension that cannot be calculated.

 

[BobRyan]

The astronomers say the visible universe is 13.8 billion years old,
the vast distance can prove that.
Then, how valid is the Church to insist it is only 6000+ years old?

1. the "Church" does not claim the universe is only 6000 years old.
2. The Bible says this earth - the sun and moon, all life on our planet is 6000 years old - but does not say that about the galaxy or our universe.

3. The age of the universe - is measured by distance - because atheists don't know how it is that God could possibly create "a big universe" to start with.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I have a question: "is lying for what you perceive is a good cause still a lie?"

No - which is why blind-faith-evolutionism is so horrible, it is a lie about origins that does nothing but pacify atheist requirements for origins doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

Anyhow, do you believe the Universe, Galaxies etc., are older than the earth?

Yes.

But the actual age is not determined by "distance" since God can "Create objects at a distance"

 

[BobRyan]

If God had created the universe and the solar system billions years before he created human beings,
why did he do so?

Not billions of year -- but some number "x" years before. And we have not been given that information - distance "alone" does not tell the story.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

If God had created the universe and the solar system billions years before he created human beings,
why did he do so?

a) The universe was created for its own self - for reasons known to God - and it was not created primarily to be a house for homo sapiens.

b) The method God used to create homo sapiens (evolution) required the pre-existing universe and planet earth.

 

[mcarmichael]

It's only than mankind is however old. That Adam and Eve were real people.

There is a saying somewhere, "There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for his people."

Yeah.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

What I have been seeing here is a lot of claims about science and the motives of scientists. I am a retired scientist, mathematician and educator. In almost sixty years I have never encountered any of the basic dishonesty of scientists that has been alluded too in the last two posts.

I have a question: "is lying for what you perceive is a good cause still a lie?"

I never said they lie, I said they fit the evidence into what they want it to mean. There is a difference in whether they intentionally lie or buy into it believing it is the truth. i can't speak for anyone else on here though.

In your 60 years can you say you have any evidence that absolutely categorically proves either the big bang or evolution? I doubt it otherwise they wouldnt still be called theories. I have met someone a few times who is a geneticist and humbly said that he was a speaker at a conference hosting the top 100 or so geneticists in the world as testimony of his achievements. He says he can prove DNA couldnt evolve. He also says I wouldnt understand as I dont have the scientific training to do so, so he wont even try to explain it. The point being there are people who think they can prove evolution is false and want to doscuss it but the mainstream scientific community just get angry and attack the people who say that, which I have seen numerous times in documentaries on the subject. There is no even discussing the subject with them and I have seen genuine hate from them.

 

[food4thought]

This is not really a problem for me, as I believe that the universe is old and the earth is old, and that Genesis 1:2 and following is a recreation of what God previously created in Genesis 1:1. Note that God never creates the earth, he only separates the waters and then gathers the lower waters into one place, and the dry land "appeared" from beneath the waters (Genesis 1:6-10). There are still unanswered questions in my mind about this theory, but I am satisfied for the most part, and will wait and see what the actual truth is when I am with the Lord. The point being that I am satisfied that I can reconcile Genesis 1 as literal with much of what science claims to "know".

 

[gordonhooker]

If God had created the universe and the solar system billions years before he created human beings,
why did he do so?

Psssst don't tell anyone else, but there are Christian out there me included that don't have an anthropocentric view of creation and the universe.

Basically the 'Creation' stories in Genesis are poetry that describes the people of the times belief on how the world as they knew was created and why some people do not so nice things.

 

[JackRT]

In your 60 years can you say you have any evidence that absolutely categorically proves either the big bang or evolution? I doubt it otherwise they wouldnt still be called theories.

In science, a "theory" is as good as it gets. Although "theory" in common parlance means nothing more than a guess, in science it means something very different. An idea rises to the level of theory in science only after numerous, independent tests have been performed and have yielded consistent data. A scientific theory offers insight into the natural world while making predictions about the structure of the natural world. Scientific theories permit us to make sense of random facts. Because science proceeds by disproof rather than proof, in other words because science is reliant on the concept of falsifiability, scientists must be open to the possibility that a commonly accepted theory might, at some time in the future, be replaced by a more finely tuned or more robust theory. But, being open to the possibility of future work modifying and improving our present theories is a far cry from saying that something is "just a theory" and thus not deserving of any special attention.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Eh, science says alot of things then changes their mind later on. Long ago they said the earth was flat. They said they didn't know what those bright things in the sky were at night. They thought the sun revolved around the earth. They thought lobotomies helped people....etc.

Not saying all science is wrong. Obviously there are things that are provable. Like if you put water in a freezer, it will freeze. Proveable. But if you say "The universe is billions of years old!" based on math and looking at things, thats not provable. Heck based on what I seen about the "edge" of the universe I could speculate that God is on the other side of it. Can I prove that? Yes. Does it mean I am right? No. Its easy to make assumptions without proof that is more theorizing then anything else.

Take how dinos died off. Science says a asteroid did it. I think they said its crater is the gulf of mexico. But do they have proof? Not really. Seeing a crater and guessing its what killed the dinosaurs is silly. Now can I prove the dinos were wiped out with the flood? Not sure really. But either side of the subject is just guessing. The bible doesn't say what killed the dinos, we just assume it was the flood.

Back to the universe thing....from a science perspective they say billions. But as a christian we know its not that old based on the bible. God created everything in 7 days. And Adam and Ever were created within those 7 days. So if you go back to when they were "created" you can see everything is only a few thousand years old. Some argue billions could be correct because "7 days" isn't literal. But its silly because why would He go on and on about each day if He wasn't being literal? There are lots of parrables in the bible but the creation story of "7 days" is not one. There is no reason for it to be. Hes saying literally it took 7 days.

In the end does any of this matter? Does it change if your going to heaven or hell? No. But its certainly something God will ask you about just to see why you thought the way you did. Me? I want to stand before Him not having to answer alot of things (even though it won't affect where I am going). Though one could say maybe it will affect somethings in heaven since we will get "Rewards". So maybe if you guess the age of everything wrong you get les rewards. Who knows.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Eh, science says alot of things then changes their mind later on. Long ago they said the earth was flat. They said they didn't know what those bright things in the sky were at night. They thought the sun revolved around the earth. They thought lobotomies helped people....etc.

Not saying all science is wrong. Obviously there are things that are provable. Like if you put water in a freezer, it will freeze. Proveable. But if you say "The universe is billions of years old!" based on math and looking at things, thats not provable. Heck based on what I seen about the "edge" of the universe I could speculate that God is on the other side of it. Can I prove that? Yes. Does it mean I am right? No. Its easy to make assumptions without proof that is more theorizing then anything else.

Take how dinos died off. Science says a asteroid did it. I think they said its crater is the gulf of mexico. But do they have proof? Not really. Seeing a crater and guessing its what killed the dinosaurs is silly. Now can I prove the dinos were wiped out with the flood? Not sure really. But either side of the subject is just guessing. The bible doesn't say what killed the dinos, we just assume it was the flood.

Back to the universe thing....from a science perspective they say billions. But as a christian we know its not that old based on the bible. God created everything in 7 days. And Adam and Ever were created within those 7 days. So if you go back to when they were "created" you can see everything is only a few thousand years old. Some argue billions could be correct because "7 days" isn't literal. But its silly because why would He go on and on about each day if He wasn't being literal? There are lots of parrables in the bible but the creation story of "7 days" is not one. There is no reason for it to be. Hes saying literally it took 7 days.

In the end does any of this matter? Does it change if your going to heaven or hell? No. But its certainly something God will ask you about just to see why you thought the way you did. Me? I want to stand before Him not having to answer alot of things (even though it won't affect where I am going). Though one could say maybe it will affect somethings in heaven since we will get "Rewards". So maybe if you guess the age of everything wrong you get les rewards. Who knows.

Great sermon, but not germane to the topic.

 

[JackRT]

Eh, science says alot of things then changes their mind later on. Long ago they said the earth was flat.

Actually, that wasn't science, that was biblical. At any rate the ability to change your mind when shown wrong is a virtue not a vice.

 

[dad]

Evolution makes sense to the wisdom of men the same way a 6 year old can understand that a toaster makes toast.

However, the way the toaster was manufactured, the way electricity works to create heat the way the toaster knows when the toast is done, the way the company can make sure the toaster wears out just after the warranty period......

Mankind is so arrogant that they think they have it all figured out. Yet, the word of God told us how it happened.

Now, academia won't even tolerate anything that brings light on the fact that evolution is anything but a rock solid fact.

Research in this field is the quest to find facts that prove a given end...... not looking at all the facts and seeing what they tell us in the quest for an unknown end.

It's taking a bunch of puzzle pieces and forcing them together to make a predetermined desired shape instead of putting them together to see what shape was originally designed and created.

Not only that, it is a bunch of hooey.