How to convince R. Catholics that the ('host' wafer) is not Christs flesh and bone? (2)

[Rhamiel]

be back latter, gotta go to work till midnight :-(
love my job but they give me crazy hours

 

[DesertSky]

Non-Catholics sure spend a lot of time on this futile argument.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Non-Catholics sure spend a lot of time on this futile argument.

As long as it stays on the GT board, it will just keep going on and "fair game".

If it was moved to the appropriate board, I probably wouldn't be responding to it

Sacramental/Ordinance Theology - Christian Forums

 

[Albion]

the confidance of Protestants in general seems to be over stated, i have known many who after reading the Bible have been pleaged about doubts about their denominations understanding of the Eucharist,

With such a large and diverse group, I'm sure we could find an example of almost anything, but I am comfortable with the idea that Catholics generally are moved by emotions and mysticism while Protestants generally tend to take satisfaction from the idea that God revealed his intentions scripturally. Of course, being unsure about any doctrine--as your example runs--is not that. It's a different issue altogether.

and also, how would such a miricle happen? easy, someone venerates the Eucharist, and have a vision of Jesus where he explains that it is just symbolic,

And how does he go about explaining consubstantation? This just doesn't seem to be the way these miracles work.

If it is, I can't remember it being that way at Lourdes, GBuadalupe, Knock, Medjagoria (I know that one's spelled wrong!), Fatima, etc.

That said, we'd better go back the main part of the thread.

 

[Rhamiel]

With such a large and diverse group, I'm sure we could find an example of almost anything, but I am comfortable with the idea that Catholics generally are moved by emotions and mysticism while Protestants generally tend to take satisfaction from the idea that God revealed his intentions scripturally. Of course, being unsure about any doctrine--as your example runs--is not that. It's a different issue altogether.

wow, that almost sounds racist, "emotions and mysticism" wow just conjures up images of mexican and italian pesants from like the 1800's, i am sorry, i hope i am just reading too much into this

 

[Albion]

wow, that almost sounds racist, "emotions and mysticism" wow just conjures up images of mexican and italian pesants from like the 1800's, i am sorry, i hope i am just reading too much into this

What a way to talk! I want nothing to do with this kind of well-poisoning and the imagery of bigots.

 

[Polycarp1]

Non-Catholics sure spend a lot of time on this futile argument.

Some "non-Catholics" (from their perspective, at least), however, do consider the doctrine of the Real Presence at the Eucharist to be very meaningful. So it's not a case of "us vs. them" -- it's the witness of many Chrristian traditions vs. the belief of many other Christian traditions.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Rhamiel wow, that almost sounds racist, "emotions and mysticism" wow just conjures up images of mexican and italian pesants from like the 1800's, i am sorry, i hope i am just reading too much into this

What a way to talk! I want nothing to do with this kind of well-poisoning and the imagery of bigots.

From what I understand, a lot of Mexicans [and even Native American Indians] still bring some of their earlier "paganism" culture into Christianity [including Roman Catholicism].

I found this article rather interesting

Mexican Mythology - Myth Encyclopedia - god, story, legend, ancient, animal, war, world, Roman, Native American, life, king, people, creatures, evil, culture

*snip*

Roman Catholic Christianity did take hold in Mexico, and 95 percent of Mexicans now practice it. Yet the old ways did not completely disappear. A few Native American groups, especially the Huichol and the Tarahumara, remained pagan.

Many others, however, combined Catholicism with surviving forms of pre-Christian beliefs and mythologies. For example, they identified Roman Catholic saints, whose feast days are scattered throughout the year, with the ancient gods, traditionally honored with agricultural festivals at specific times.

 

[Standing Up]

Some "non-Catholics" (from their perspective, at least), however, do consider the doctrine of the Real Presence at the Eucharist to be very meaningful. So it's not a case of "us vs. them" -- it's the witness of many Chrristian traditions vs. the belief of many other Christian traditions.

What does that mean?

How is it different from Mt. 18:20, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Or is it the same?

 

[Tangible]

What does that mean?

How is it different from Mt. 18:20, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Or is it the same?

Real Presence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Real Presence is a term used in various Christian traditions to express belief that in the Eucharist, Jesus Christ is really present in what was previously just bread and wine, and not merely present in symbol, a figure of speech (metaphorically), or by his power (dynamically).

Real Presence is an umbrella term that groups together various beliefs, doctrines and dogmas associated with the Lord's Supper.

See also:

Sacramental Union
Transubstantiation
Transignification
Memorialism
Consubstantiation
Impanation
Consecration
Words of Institution

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Real Presence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Real Presence is an umbrella term that groups together various beliefs, doctrines and dogmas associated with the Lord's Supper.

See also:

Sacramental Union
Transubstantiation
Transignification
Memorialism
Consubstantiation
Impanation
Consecration
Words of Institution

Whatever happened to KISS:

 

[Albion]

Real Presence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Real Presence is an umbrella term that groups together various beliefs, doctrines and dogmas associated with the Lord's Supper.

See also:

Sacramental Union
Transubstantiation
Transignification
Memorialism
Consubstantiation
Impanation
Consecration
Words of Institution

I wouldn't quite go with that wikipedia explanation, but it--Real Presence-- certainly applies to any belief about the Lord's Supper that includes the idea that the bread and wine become, or have added to them, in some way or other, the actual presence of Christ, to the exclusion of the bread and wine remaining only a symbol of the same. That said, there are some Christians who claim to believe in the Real Presence who do not think that the bread and wine are changed at all, but that we are mystically raised to being in the presence of Christ at that moment.

 

[Tangible]

Whatever happened to KISS:

Human reason got a-hold of it and tried to put it in a nice, neat, little box.

Reason is a harlot, the greatest enemy that faith has.
- Yet another zinger from the bombastic Dr. Luther

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Human reason got a-hold of it and tried to put it in a nice, neat, little box.

Reason is a harlot, the greatest enemy that faith has.
- Yet another zinger from the bombastic Dr. Luther

I will have to come up with a nice birthday cake for him when his birthday rolls around, as one member did for Calvin on his birthday

http://www.christianforums.com/t7382164-127/#post52293555

 

[Eucharisted]

It probably is possible to preserve bread for 500 years, but even if it were the case that some Eucharistic bread miraculously turned into real flesh, that wouldn't have anything at all to do with the Real Presence. It would be a miracle, but no more than roses blooming in the snow or weeping icons, etc.

You're not a competent Catholic Bishop, so your words on what constitutes an Eucharistic miracle are about as credible as a rock's. I'm sorry if this is news to you.

 

[Chesterton]

From what I understand, a lot of Mexicans [and even Native American Indians] still bring some of their earlier "paganism" culture into Christianity [including Roman Catholicism].

I found this article rather interesting

Mexican Mythology - Myth Encyclopedia - god, story, legend, ancient, animal, war, world, Roman, Native American, life, king, people, creatures, evil, culture

*snip*

Roman Catholic Christianity did take hold in Mexico, and 95 percent of Mexicans now practice it. Yet the old ways did not completely disappear. A few Native American groups, especially the Huichol and the Tarahumara, remained pagan.

Many others, however, combined Catholicism with surviving forms of pre-Christian beliefs and mythologies. For example, they identified Roman Catholic saints, whose feast days are scattered throughout the year, with the ancient gods, traditionally honored with agricultural festivals at specific times.

Yeah but everyone has done that, including the England where we WASPs came from. Read Beowulf. It's really beside the point of the topic here I think.

 

[Standing Up]

What does that mean (Real Presence)?

How is it different from Mt. 18:20, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Or is it the same?

Besides Wiki--anyone?

 

[Albion]

You're not a competent Catholic Bishop, so your words on what constitutes an Eucharistic miracle are about as credible as a rock's. I'm sorry if this is news to you.

People behaving rudely is not news to any of us on CF, unfortunately.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah but everyone has done that, including the England where we WASPs came from. Read Beowulf. It's really beside the point of the topic here I think.

I brought it up in response to another RC bringing up the Mexicans

Originally Posted by Rhamiel wow, that almost sounds racist, "emotions and mysticism" wow just conjures up images of mexican and italian pesants from like the 1800's, i am sorry, i hope i am just reading too much into this

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hmm

Real Presence is a term used in various Christian traditions to express belief that in the Eucharist, Jesus Christ is really present in what was previously just bread and wine, and not merely present in symbol, a figure of speech (metaphorically), or by his power (dynamically).

oh well i guess He's present . but in a different sense . since his body is physical and he can make it so we don't know He's there . then it is possible that He';s really there beyond His strong spiritual presence .