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How to choose between creation and evolution.

rjs330

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So you say, but you have yet to show me one. Show me one that split off and what it was before the split and what it split into. Show the progression and when it happened. I mean actually show it. Don't assume it. Show it.

Please show me any evidence is something that has verifiable testable, observable and reproducible evidence of evolution from a common ancestor really occurred. Show me something to prove it could have occurred because we can or have seen it happening.
 
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rjs330

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Please show me evidence of something actually occurring as you and the other scientists say it happened. Show me observed and tested science of something evolving in the macro evolution such as whatever it was that was before the cat and what was it and what did it branch from and branch into to create the cat and what else did it eventually become.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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What in your view is 'observed and tested science'?
 
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rjs330

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Oh we can't see the moon? What is that then? What is it that lights our sky at night if its not observable?
 
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pitabread

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Oh we can't see the moon? What is that then?

Prove to me the moon exists.

What is it that lights our sky at night if its not observable?

Atmospheric reflection. There's no evidence for the moon. It's not observable, verifiable, repeatable or testable.

You can't provide any evidence for it because there is none.
 
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Speedwell

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Were the genes damaged from the start or did they become damaged?
They became damaged and the damage was passed down to their offspring. ERV insertions are a good example of this kind of thing and are useful in tracing evolutionary lines of descent. Because they are random, if two different species have them in the same location the odds are they are related.
 
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rjs330

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Prove to me the moon exists.



Atmospheric reflection. There's no evidence for the moon. It's not observable, verifiable, repeatable or testable.

You can't provide any evidence for it because there is none.
Prove to me we exist. There are those that don't believe we really exist. This world doesn't exist. We have people who have been there and walked on it. We have moon rocks. It's been observed verified and tested. More than once.

But we have never observed evolution from a common ancestor. We haven't even observed evolution in process where a divide has occurred such as the formation of cats from whatever they divided from, we haven't been able to test it or verify that it can happen much less that it has happened.

We've tested the moon rocks.
 
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pitabread

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We have people who have been there and walked on it. We have moon rocks. It's been observed verified and tested. More than once.

Stories aren't evidence and neither are a bunch of rocks. Rocks could have come from anywhere.

So far you're not producing any evidence because you can't prove the moon exists. We have never observed it; it's not testable, replicable or verifiable.

We've tested the moon rocks.

There are no moon rocks.
 
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Speedwell

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We have people who have been there and walked on it. We have moon rocks. It's been observed verified and tested. More than once.

We've tested the moon rocks.
Many of your coreligionists believe the whole moon trip was a fake, concocted by the same secular humanist conspiracy that gave us the theory of evolution.
 
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AnotherAtheist

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Common design does not mean exactness, but we not just talking about a little slop here.We're talking about very specific things such as broken genes and many, many, other things that make no sense if there is a competent designer at all.

Why would a competent designer include broken genes in organisms, and why would that designer include genes that are broken in the same way for very similar organisms but broken in different way for less similar organisms. If creatures were created as is, then why are fossils found in different layers of rock starting with simple organisms and becoming more complex. Why aren't rabbit fossils found in Cambrian rocks. And so on and so on.

You keep talking about buildings, but we're talking about living things that are very different. Talking about buildings is avoiding the topic.

We also have no evidence of a designer at all. Unless you can provide some.
 
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AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
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So you say, but you have yet to show me one. Show me one that split off and what it was before the split and what it split into. Show the progression and when it happened. I mean actually show it. Don't assume it. Show it.

There are plenty of examples of speciation that have been observed. Evolution: Watching Speciation Occur | Observations

And it matters nowt that, e.g. we haven't yet found the common ancestor of humans and chimps. Since we know there is a common ancestor of humans and chimps (let alone the rest) given all the evidence I've given. Which you have been spectacularly unable to address.


I've shown you utter loads of evidence. I've explained why it is testable, verifiable, and objective. And why the observations are reproducible. You've been unable to address even one example. You just dodge. You just stonewall. You have no evidence at all for your own view of how life started, and you just try to arm-wave away and created ridiculous objections to evidence that you simply have no cogent response to.

And here's a question for you: Can you explain how if chimps and humans have a common ancestor and are different species, that there won't have been at least one species branching off another. Either we branched off chimps, chimps branched off us, or we both branched off a common separate species. And we know from fossil evidence that there has been a succession of species since that time. Branching off all over the place.

EDIT: The analogy of denying the moon is very apt. Anyone can simply dig their heels in and deny anything. Your denial of evolution and the evidence for it is no more reasonable than stonewalling denial of evidence that there is a moon.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Studying anatomy confirms design.

Does it?
Then why do all professionals who actually study life, conclude evolution instead?

Studying evolution is confusing. I need order.

Argument from incredulity.

Quantum physics confuses the heck out of me, but I wouldn't dare using that as an argument to say that QP is nonsense.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I would put that way down on my list of important things.

I know.

Correcting your mistakes and actually learning something, doesn't seem to be one of your priorities...

Most things are what they appear to be.

I gave you 3 examples where that was not the case and I required exactly 2 seconds to come up with them.

psssst: the word "most", excludes it from being a general rule right out the gates.

But hey, you already made it clear that you don't care about being wrong or learning.
 
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DogmaHunter

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DogmaHunter

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What you showed a picture of IS a watch, since it shows obviously manufactured parts: leather, plastic, metal, radium.
What you are suggesting would not be a watch. It would be LIKE a watch, but it wouldn't BE a watch.

I disagree. It wouldn't even be like a watch.
There is exactly zero chance that an organism is going to evolve to wrap around the wrist of a human so that that human can tell what time it is.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Buildings aren't biological entities that are subject to the processes of biology.
 
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DogmaHunter

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How? Because of similarities?

No. Because of phylogenies that match comparative genetics, anatomy, geographic distribution, the fossil record,...

All you have is similarity and commonality

Nested hierarchies. Aka, a family tree.

Neither of which can be actually shown to lead to common ancestry.

How do you think that biological paternity is established in court cases?
Word against word?
Or is there perhaps some kind of objective genetic test that can be done?


You are making an assumption. You still cannot show it ever happening. You can't test it, observe it or repeat it.

It's extremely testable.
 
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