"How to Change my Vote" Trending on Google

[rambot]

It always amazes me when Canadians, UK folks and Auzzies want to really argue about our politics.... (as ardently as a US citizen or more than a typical citizen)

Why should we care about your opinions? And furthermore if we actually were interested in your politics beyond some occasional curiosity at some of colorful things that go on (

that are different than our own traditions & customs, laws and constitution etc.) . , would you really care if the circumstances were reversed? I kind of doubt it...

STrange. I wouldn't expect you to care about our opinions for that very reason. Though to be fair, there are PLENTY of American's opinions on this site whose opinions you likely don't care much for either.

This seems to be a more common refrain from those who disagree with opinions from abroad.

If we were cheering in your corner, I'm simply not convinced the ire would be present.

 

[lasthero]

STrange. I wouldn't expect you to care about our opinions for that very reason. Though to be fair, there are PLENTY of American's opinions on this site whose opinions you likely don't care much for either.

This seems to be a more common refrain from those who disagree with opinions from abroad.

If we were cheering in your corner, I'm simply not convinced the ire would be present.

It’s especially funny because it’s not like Americans in this forum are shy about giving their opinions on other country’s governments and how they’re run, but the moment someone from the outside talks about us, it’s all ‘you don’t live here, you don’t know!’

 

[Halbhh]

But nothing like the experience of this president. And the phony Russian conspiracies, actual impeachments, declarations that the president was "illegitimate," plans for disrupting the Inaugural ceremonies, the outrageous name-calling, and the rest far exceed anything we've seen before.

Well have a look actually with a neutral eye (if you can), to see if the first article if simply factual or not --

Using the powers of his high office, President Trump [1] solicited the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, [true -- see below] in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election to his advantage. President Trump also sought to pressure the Government of Ukraine to take these steps by conditioning official United States Government acts of significant value to Ukraine on its public announcement of the investigations. [factually true] President Trump engaged in this scheme or course of conduct for corrupt purposes in pursuit of personal political benefit. In so doing, President Trump used the powers of the Presidency in a manner that compromised the national security of the United States and undermined the integrity of the United States democratic process. He thus ignored and injured the interests of the Nation.
https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hres755/BILLS-116hres755enr.pdf

[1] -- The White House has corroborated several allegations raised by the whistleblower. A non-verbatim transcript of the Trump–Zelensky call confirmed that Trump requested investigations into Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden,
Trump–Ukraine scandal - Wikipedia
(This fact is available from a very wide variety of sources)

See? It's factually true that Trump solicited foreign interference in a U.S. election, which is specifically unconstitutional, and what the founders of America wrote provisions into our Constitution to deter and allow for removal from office for doing.

Former acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said one reason why Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine was Ukrainian "corruption related to the DNC server", referring to a debunked theory that Ukrainians framed Russia for hacking into the DNC computer system.[13] Trump has also publicly urged Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens.[14]

It turns out that the founding fathers did not want it to be possible for a foreign government to sway and interfere in U.S. elections by allegations, via agents giving whatever claimed information, or any other manner of interference.

If tomorrow Joe Biden urged China to reveal information about Trump to sway the election, that would be impeachable if Biden became president, and Biden could then be rightfully impeached if that happened.

 

[Albion]

Well have a look actually with a neutral eye (if you can), to see if the first article if simply factual or not --

Sure. Can you present a case with a neutral eye?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It’s especially funny because it’s not like Americans in this forum are shy about giving their opinions on other country’s governments and how they’re run, but the moment someone from the outside talks about us, it’s all ‘you don’t live here, you don’t know!’

There is a difference in expressing an opinion and obsessive involvement for parties that don't even have any real skin in the game. I have some interest in Germany because of family background and heritage etc. I once thought Angela Merkel was good for Germany, and now not so much, or at least I think they can do better. And if I had a German friend I would probably say as much. I would not really spend a lot of time trying to convince a person from a different country about whatever my political opinion is. But that is exactly what happens a lot in American aka US political type discussions. (Is this a side affect of being a super power?).

Years ago I had lots of discussions on a different now defunct Christian board/forum on Obamacare. Strangely, the person who was most invested in arguing and shilling for Obamacare was this one Canadian guy... (I could sort of understand that if the guy was living in the US as a green card worker, but nope he was living in Canada and as far as I know had no plans to ever move to the US).

 

[Halbhh]

Sure. Can you present a case with a neutral eye?

You can easily find out what the administration itself said officially in its statement were the contents of the phone call in question. These are easy enough to verify. Did you happen to get down to the point of my post though? It's near the end. I'm kinda busy, so may not be back for a while.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

If tomorrow Joe Biden urged China to reveal information about Trump to sway the election, that would be impeachable if Biden became president, and Biden could then be rightfully impeached if that happened.

There is a problem with this. In most cases, for a foreign government to get that kind of information the person has to be seriously screwing up in a way that would already be illegal, or in some way problematic.

Examples of that are Hillary Clinton's email server that was not properly guarded in spite of official laws and regulations which was likely done to evade FOI act, and there is the alleged charge that JFK was sleeping with a secret East German STASI agent, and the Soviets had had actually gained actionable intelligence from that which would have led to a potential impeachment if he was not assassinated when he was.

President Kennedy and the German Spy


This of course assumes that some effort is made by the press, etc. to actually Vet a candidate... And on the progressive side that is happening less and less. But there is a built in home court advantage to this stuff when it comes from a foreign power can learn about a candidate compared to a local source. If a foreign power beats us in this area it means somebody ain't doing their job...

 

[rambot]

This of course assumes that some effort is made by the press, etc. to actually Vet a candidate... And on the progressive side that is happening less and less. But there is a built in home court advantage to this stuff when it comes from a foreign power can learn about a candidate compared to a local source. If a foreign power beats us in this area it means somebody ain't doing their job...

Or that reality isn't twisting to fit your understanding of it.

 

[rambot]

I'm actually surprised that more people don't recognize that as true.

As someone who knows what they're talking about I am utterly shocked anyone thinks it IS true.

But don't listen to this stupid Canadian with experience and knowledge. Listen to other psychologists....good old red blue and white American ones.

 

[rambot]

There is a difference in expressing an opinion and obsessive involvement for parties that don't even have any real skin in the game. I have some interest in Germany because of family background and heritage etc. I once thought Angela Merkel was good for Germany, and now not so much, or at least I think they can do better. And if I had a German friend I would probably say as much. I would not really spend a lot of time trying to convince a person from a different country about whatever my political opinion is. But that is exactly what happens a lot in American aka US political type discussions. (Is this a side affect of being a super power?).

Years ago I had lots of discussions on a different now defunct Christian board/forum on Obamacare. Strangely, the person who was most invested in arguing and shilling for Obamacare was this one Canadian guy... (I could sort of understand that if the guy was living in the US as a green card worker, but nope he was living in Canada and as far as I know had no plans to ever move to the US).

Do you REALLY honestly thing that Canadians are not impacted by what's happenning south of the border Pavel?
Because that's just wrong.

The reason why Canadians (and most of the developed world) would want to see socialized medicare in your country is because your system sucks and, relatively speaking, socialized medicare is pretty awesome. And if I were to be blunt, most of the developed world thinks your healthcare system is beyond absurd and cannot FATHOM why people are resistent to change. Most of the world wants AMERICANS to have the same benefits that other citizens have.
And you can go on about your freedom but I'll tell you, the functional difference between the freedom you enjoy and the freedom I enjoy for our lives are essentially the exact same.

 

[durangodawood]

There is a difference in expressing an opinion and obsessive involvement for parties that don't even have any real skin in the game. I have some interest in Germany because of family background and heritage etc. I once thought Angela Merkel was good for Germany, and now not so much, or at least I think they can do better. And if I had a German friend I would probably say as much. I would not really spend a lot of time trying to convince a person from a different country about whatever my political opinion is. But that is exactly what happens a lot in American aka US political type discussions. (Is this a side affect of being a super power?).

Years ago I had lots of discussions on a different now defunct Christian board/forum on Obamacare. Strangely, the person who was most invested in arguing and shilling for Obamacare was this one Canadian guy... (I could sort of understand that if the guy was living in the US as a green card worker, but nope he was living in Canada and as far as I know had no plans to ever move to the US).

Dont forget the sheer bizarre-factor of Trump himself. That itself attracts interest, like a car wreck in the next lane.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

@Halbhh

What if there is a series of events, where all the stuff both pro and con for Trump is true in some way? But the sequence of events started in the last days of Obama's presidency with Biden also largely being a party to it....

Would that also be significant in your estimation? The problem is there really is one of these epistemology problems of "IF a tree falls in the wilderness without a person to hear it does it make a sound?" That sort of thing is true when it comes to crimes. An alleged crime only takes place if someone files a police report etc. And a charge only happens if it is investigated. But if parties make sure that doesn't happen no crime.

And of course one side is good at hiding the bodies, or in this case scrubbing servers, smashing phones in spite of laws etc. they have affectively hidden the body. Except of course what you can piece together from other sources.... which they are looking to impeach for obvious reasons.


Now Trump has already been impeached... But if Biden is elected, based on the precedent set by the Democrats Biden should already be facing impeachment if elected? Which will almost certainly not happen, given who controls the House. And if he was impeached the Dems would probably be happy to put Kamala in. But I'm just saying this seems like it is playing a card game with a deck that is seriously stacked against you.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Dont forget the sheer bizarre-factor of Trump himself. That itself attracts interest, like a car wreck in the next lane.

lol yeah I will grant you that. There have been some interesting people in the other English speaking countries. I seem to recall some interesting stories about Boris Johnson.

 

[rambot]

@Halbhh
Now Trump has already been impeached... But if Biden is elected, based on the precedent set by the Democrats Biden should already be facing impeachment if elected? Which will almost certainly not happen, given who controls the House. And if he was impeached the Dems would probably be happy to put Kamala in. But I'm just saying this seems like it is playing a card game with a deck that is seriously stacked against you.

If there is evidence of impeachable behaviour why shouldn't a president be impeached? That was the case under Trump; no reason why it should be the case under every single president of the US

 

[Triumvirate]

It’s especially funny because it’s not like Americans in this forum are shy about giving their opinions on other country’s governments and how they’re run, but the moment someone from the outside talks about us, it’s all ‘you don’t live here, you don’t know!’

Indeed! It's only a search query away

Got to make MAGAland look less of a failure somehow!

 

[Triumvirate]

There is a difference in expressing an opinion and obsessive involvement for parties that don't even have any real skin in the game. I have some interest in Germany because of family background and heritage etc. I once thought Angela Merkel was good for Germany, and now not so much, or at least I think they can do better. And if I had a German friend I would probably say as much. I would not really spend a lot of time trying to convince a person from a different country about whatever my political opinion is. But that is exactly what happens a lot in American aka US political type discussions. (Is this a side affect of being a super power?).

Years ago I had lots of discussions on a different now defunct Christian board/forum on Obamacare. Strangely, the person who was most invested in arguing and shilling for Obamacare was this one Canadian guy... (I could sort of understand that if the guy was living in the US as a green card worker, but nope he was living in Canada and as far as I know had no plans to ever move to the US).

But you've mentioned the reason why. The US is a superpower, and what happens next week will have a global impact, including on our respective countries.

As much as I love the UK, the reverse simply isn't going to be nearly as true.

 

[Halbhh]

In most cases, for a foreign government to get that kind of information the person has to be seriously screwing up in a way that would already be illegal, or in some way problematic.

The scandal with Hunter Biden was actually old news to me, and in more detail than people have typically here posting on it, even now.

Yes, even now.

Way back the New York Times reported many times about Hunter Biden on that Ukraine gas company board getting that huge income, and apparently because his father was Biden.

And that's not all. The New York Times reported long ago that in the Obama administration it was considered unacceptable, and Biden was urged to fix that wrong.

Way back, in 2015, already, the New York Times was exposing the story --
Joe Biden, His Son and the Case Against a Ukrainian Oligarch (Published 2015)

Is that what you expected Pavel?

It is simply what I've learned to expect, by experience, since I've read a very wide variety of news for decades. From many diverse sources that are not alike, and don't report the same things or from the same angles.

For instance, another, way back in May 2019:
"Among those who had a stake in the outcome was Hunter Biden, Mr. Biden’s younger son, who at the time was on the board of an energy company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch who had been in the sights of the fired prosecutor general."
Biden Faces Conflict of Interest Questions That Are Being Promoted by Trump and Allies (Published 2019)

Also, remember how Trump tried to suggest people look into Biden and China? Well, my guess is probably because the New York Times reported a story, likely as not, in terms of making it visible.

Maybe this one:
Although, as you can easily read in just the first paragraphs, that Chinese businessman sought out many possible connections, anywhere he might be able to find any, not only Biden...
e.g. --https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/business/cefc-biden-china-washington-ye-jianming.html

Now...imagine, if you will, how it sounds to me when Trump tries to suggest that the 'fake news' is hiding these stories.

How do you think it sounds to me, when Trump says that?

I'm really asking. I'd really want to know how you'd think it sounds to me, Halbhh, when Trump tries to claim that the 'fake news media' is covering up and not reporting these stories.

What is your guess about how I might see Trump's rhetoric at such a moment?

Yes, I see Trump at such a moment engaged in either a delusion or possibly an intentional cyclical lying. I'm not sure which. Neither is trivial. Either one, alone is a huge danger to Americans, to have in a president.

There is a problem with this. In most cases, for a foreign government to get that kind of information the person has to be seriously screwing up in a way that would already be illegal, or in some way problematic.

Examples of that are Hillary Clinton's email server that was not properly guarded in spite of official laws and regulations which was likely done to evade FOI act, and there is the alleged charge that JFK was sleeping with a secret East German STASI agent, and the Soviets had had actually gained actionable intelligence from that which would have led to a potential impeachment if he was not assassinated when he was.

President Kennedy and the German Spy


This of course assumes that some effort is made by the press, etc. to actually Vet a candidate... And on the progressive side that is happening less and less. But there is a built in home court advantage to this stuff when it comes from a foreign power can learn about a candidate compared to a local source. If a foreign power beats us in this area it means somebody ain't doing their job...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Now...imagine, if you will, how it sounds to me when Trump tries to suggest that the 'fake news' is hiding these stories.

How do you think it sounds to me, when Trump says that?

I'm really asking. I'd really want to know how you'd think it sounds to me, Halbhh, when Trump tries to claim that the 'fake news media' is covering up and not reporting these stories.

Thanks for the post. I think there is a substantial qualitative difference in the coverage though Halbhh. I think in some way metaphorically speaking Trump is right. In our age we live in the age of short memories, something that was reported on years ago and largely forgotten is treated on as if it doesn't exist.

But I noticed you didn't address any mention of some of my other points like scrubbed servers and smashed phones etc. From what I can see Trump is kind of painted into a corner, if he genuinely believes their is corruption and shenagians the only way to address it is to cross some kind of boundary that would put him in the cross hairs of impeachment etc. It's kind of the proverbial "Fox guarding the hen house" situation as far as the previous administration was concerned. (Lots of people I know will disagree with that statement but I think I can make detailed arguments of the specifics of how Obama ran things with Erik Holder and the rest of his staff while that is the case.)


Another idea that fits into things is "the Cox Report" of 2000. That was an important event in our history but was mostly eclipsed by the Clinton Impeachment. In a nutshell congress researched the history of Chinese spying on our government where they had succeeded in stealing something like 18 of our most sensitive secrets especially nuclear and other strategic secrets: MIRV missiles, the plans for the neutron bomb, satellite communication encryption etc. And all that was going on when not just Clinton was in the White House, but he was making very questionable decisions with the department of energy. He appointed a lady named Hazel O'leary to run the department of energy when they were safe guarding those secrets and she went out of her way to gut safe guards to those secrets. Like the department where those secrets were kept would not take visitors normally, but those regulations were changed to allow visitors. Moreover they were violated where such visitors who would normally have to be chaperoned constantly, were sometimes left unattended so the person could go on a a bathroom break or whatever. And at this time there was also a financial end of things where the Chinese were making large donations to the Clinton library, and through some sources like Johnny Chung even made some illegal donations to the Clinton campaign that they would later have to return. And of course, this was also taking place where Bill Clinton was working to get them in that trade deal that would give them favored nation status and would be a key in having our jobs sent there in later years....


Anyway, I believe we through Biden are heading to the Cox Report 2.0 The original Cox Report was so bad that even Nancey Pelosi 20 years ago spoke out being disappointed at the mismanagement and negligence of the Department of Energy etc. More conservative folks like Sean Hannity did a very good time connecting the dots to all the various events that there was something treasonous in terms of a "quid pro quo" if you document and graph all the various events that took place, at one time.


Anyway I thank you for your thoughtfulness and respect, and I wish you a good day.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Raw footage of Miami Dade post office where ballots have been dumped.

 

[Halbhh]

Thanks for the post. I think there is a substantial qualitative difference in the coverage though Halbhh. I think in some way metaphorically speaking Trump is right. In our age we live in the age of short memories, something that was reported on years ago and largely forgotten is treated on as if it doesn't exist.

But I noticed you didn't address any mention of some of my other points like scrubbed servers and smashed phones etc. From what I can see Trump is kind of painted into a corner, if he genuinely believes their is corruption and shenagians the only way to address it is to cross some kind of boundary that would put him in the cross hairs of impeachment etc. It's kind of the proverbial "Fox guarding the hen house" situation as far as the previous administration was concerned. (Lots of people I know will disagree with that statement but I think I can make detailed arguments of the specifics of how Obama ran things with Erik Holder and the rest of his staff while that is the case.)


Another idea that fits into things is "the Cox Report" of 2000. That was an important event in our history but was mostly eclipsed by the Clinton Impeachment. In a nutshell congress researched the history of Chinese spying on our government where they had succeeded in stealing something like 18 of our most sensitive secrets especially nuclear and other strategic secrets: MIRV missiles, the plans for the neutron bomb, satellite communication encryption etc. And all that was going on when not just Clinton was in the White House, but he was making very questionable decisions with the department of energy. He appointed a lady named Hazel O'leary to run the department of energy when they were safe guarding those secrets and she went out of her way to gut safe guards to those secrets. Like the department where those secrets were kept would not take visitors normally, but those regulations were changed to allow visitors. Moreover they were violated where such visitors who would normally have to be chaperoned constantly, were sometimes left unattended so the person could go on a a bathroom break or whatever. And at this time there was also a financial end of things where the Chinese were making large donations to the Clinton library, and through some sources like Johnny Chung even made some illegal donations to the Clinton campaign that they would later have to return. And of course, this was also taking place where Bill Clinton was working to get them in that trade deal that would give them favored nation status and would be a key in having our jobs sent there in later years....


Anyway, I believe we through Biden are heading to the Cox Report 2.0 The original Cox Report was so bad that even Nancey Pelosi 20 years ago spoke out being disappointed at the mismanagement and negligence of the Department of Energy etc. More conservative folks like Sean Hannity did a very good time connecting the dots to all the various events that there was something treasonous in terms of a "quid pro quo" if you document and graph all the various events that took place, at one time.


Anyway I thank you for your thoughtfulness and respect, and I wish you a good day.

Trump a very experienced salesman, able to make people believe in his claims. One that may backfire too soon for him is the picture he tried to create that Covid is fading, many types of rhetoric. He perhaps might have guessed it would be shown wrong before the end of the year...but he didn't guess how rapidly.

That illusion may collapse far sooner than he's used to for a key illusion. But he's working hard to maintain it as long as possible.