LDS How to Become a God

[twin.spin]

I have never said that Kolob is mentioned in the Bible. Is Trinity mentioned in the Bible?

Nor does Biblical Christianity states that the coined word "Trinity" is in the Bible … so as per usual you're deflecting away from the indefensible.

 

[He is the way]

Nor does Biblical Christianity states that the coined word "Trinity" is in the Bible … so as per usual you're deflecting away from the indefensible.

Really, did I say Kolob was in the Bible? People use a lot of words that are not in the Bible. Some people teach things that are not Biblical:

5 things almost nobody realizes are NOT in the Bible

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "I already mentioned that!! That was for a few hours and not the permanent ascension."

There is no permanent ascension, Jesus will come again. Neither is there only one ascension. Jesus comes and goes as He pleases. He can also appear to whoever He pleases. We do not control Him.

I already mentioned that, too!! He and the angels said His next appearing will be the same as when He went up---Jesus said every eye shall see Him, His 2nd coming will be with every angel. Every dead saint will be resurrected. It will not be in any secret place, it will not be in a manner he said to not go to! A Mayan visitation is what He said to avoid. One thing Mormons do not seem to understand---God can do whatever He pleases---however, He always does what He says He will do, and He will not do what is contrary to His character, and what He says He will not do. He can absolutely destroy this planet with a total, world wide flood again---but He said He would not, so He will not. He said not to go where people say He will be, He said when He comes THE SECOND time every eye shall see, and the dead saints will all be resurrected, every angel will come with Him, the earth will melt with fervent heat---and that is what will happen because He said so.

 

[mmksparbud]

I have never said that Kolob is mentioned in the Bible. Is Trinity mentioned in the Bible?

Really, did I say Kolob was in the Bible? People use a lot of words that are not in the Bible. Some people teach things that are not Biblical:

5 things almost nobody realizes are NOT in the Bible

No you did, most Mormons say it is not in the bible. That article addressed this:

"One argument for its inclusion in the Bible compares the lack of the name Jesus being mentioned in the Old Testament. The Old Testament talks about Jesus but never uses his name. The same thinking applies to Kolob. Different verses talk about Kolob but does not directly use its name.

It is a stretch of an argument which has no exegetical foundation to it. Kolob is mentioned only in Mormon sacred texts, with the book of Abraham as the key source."

 

[He is the way]

No you did, most Mormons say it is not in the bible. That article addressed this:

"One argument for its inclusion in the Bible compares the lack of the name Jesus being mentioned in the Old Testament. The Old Testament talks about Jesus but never uses his name. The same thinking applies to Kolob. Different verses talk about Kolob but does not directly use its name.

It is a stretch of an argument which has no exegetical foundation to it. Kolob is mentioned only in Mormon sacred texts, with the book of Abraham as the key source."

Yes Kolob is not mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned in the Book of Abraham. And as you said Jesus is not mentioned by the name Jesus in the Old Testament. There are many concepts mentioned in the New Testament that are not mentioned in the Old Testament. Even now God has not revealed all that there is to be revealed. People still struggle with what He has revealed. Here is another thing they struggle with:

What does the Bible really mean by “believing?”

 

[dzheremi]

Yes Kolob is not mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned in the Book of Abraham. And as you said Jesus is not mentioned by the name Jesus in the Old Testament. There are many concepts mentioned in the New Testament that are not mentioned in the Old Testament. Even now God has not revealed all that there is to be revealed. People still struggle with what He has revealed. Here is another thing they struggle with:

What does the Bible really mean by “believing?”

This is the second time I've noticed that you've linked to this particular website, "activechristianity.org" to answer questions that you say people struggle with. This website is owned and run by a non-denominational Evangelical church based in Norway known as Brunstad Christian Church. Are you somehow connected to this organization, or are you becoming a member of it? Is it normal for Mormons to rely on non-denominational Evangelical Protestant apologetics? If the answer to both those questions is no (and I suspect it is), then why do you keep pointing people to that website? Why should we take anything it says seriously?

 

[twin.spin]

Yes Kolob is not mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned in the Book of Abraham. And as you said Jesus is not mentioned by the name Jesus in the Old Testament. There are many concepts mentioned in the New Testament that are not mentioned in the Old Testament. Even now God has not revealed all that there is to be revealed. People still struggle with what He has revealed. Here is another thing they struggle with:

What does the Bible really mean by “believing?”

thus your reply and subsequent question:

"I have never said that Kolob is mentioned in the Bible. Is Trinity mentioned in the Bible?"​

to what was stated previously concerning Kolob and Mormonism creeds* in general was nothing other than purposeful sidetrack* tactic commonly used by Mormons like yourself … and are continuing sidetracking with subsequent links.
_______________________________________________________________
*creed: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• a formal statement or system of esp. religious beliefs
• a set of beliefs that influences the way you live

* sidetrack: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• to direct a person's attention away from an activity or subject

 

[He is the way]

This is the second time I've noticed that you've linked to this particular website, "activechristianity.org" to answer questions that you say people struggle with. This website is owned and run by a non-denominational Evangelical church based in Norway known as Brunstad Christian Church. Are you somehow connected to this organization, or are you becoming a member of it? Is it normal for Mormons to rely on non-denominational Evangelical Protestant apologetics? If the answer to both those questions is no (and I suspect it is), then why do you keep pointing people to that website? Why should we take anything it says seriously?

I find a lot of truth in this website that seems to be overlooked by others. It makes some good points that should be taken seriously. Some people tend to overlook important parts of the Bible that should not be overlooked. Their key teachings are more inline with the Bible than others that I have seen. Here is another:

Sin and overcoming sin

 

[twin.spin]

This is the second time I've noticed that you've linked to this particular website, "activechristianity.org" to answer questions that you say people struggle with. This website is owned and run by a non-denominational Evangelical church based in Norway known as Brunstad Christian Church. Are you somehow connected to this organization, or are you becoming a member of it? Is it normal for Mormons to rely on non-denominational Evangelical Protestant apologetics? If the answer to both those questions is no (and I suspect it is), then why do you keep pointing people to that website? Why should we take anything it says seriously?

Why is obvious; it's a typical tactic of sidetracking to a different issue which normally is to get the individual to chase never ending gopher hole arguments.

* sidetrack: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• to direct a person's attention away from an activity or subject

 

[He is the way]

thus your reply and subsequent question:

"I have never said that Kolob is mentioned in the Bible. Is Trinity mentioned in the Bible?"​

to what was stated previously concerning Kolob and Mormonism creeds* in general was nothing other than purposeful sidetrack* tactic commonly used by Mormons like yourself … and are continuing with subsequent links.
_______________________________________________________________
*creed: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• a formal statement or system of esp. religious beliefs
• a set of beliefs that influences the way you live

* sidetrack: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• to direct a person's attention away from an activity or subject

I thought I answered the question conclusively and then made a comment of my own. Did you have another question for me or feel that more evaluation is needed?

 

[Peter1000]

QUOTE="dzheremi, post: 74332128, member: 357536"]There is zero evidence for this, or anything else that you claim in this post. I'm not going to "Google it all day long". I have many other things to do, none of which involve bolstering an evidence-free theory that just so happens to support the Mormon fantasy regarding the 'Nephites' and 'Lamanites' and all of this other stuff that never existed.

You make the claim, you provide the evidence. That's how claiming things works. You don't just say "Google it". Google is not a source.

There are many stories through Mexico and into South America of bearded white gods---many of them with red heair and beards. And it is true that these Indians traditionally do not have much facial hair, many had none. There are no records at all stating that Jesus had red hair. However, there is some evidence that these stories are of early Vikings---many of which certainly do have red hair and red beards. The stories usually state that several of these visitors came, not just one, and that the leader of the group was determined to be a god and would be the main one depicted. You have to be careful of some of those articles as some are from LDS sources and are twisted to substantiate their view point instead of the truth if the culture. They have written tons of articles and you have to dig to find the ones that are not biased in their favor. They, of course, totally reject the Viking evidence.[/QUOTE]
We absolutely give the red-haired vikings whatever influence they have on central America and north America.

But we also give credence to a story of a white bearded god that came down from heaven and taught his gospel, and healed the sick and blessed the children, and then returned to the heavens with a promise to return again
There is only 1 book in the world that says it is a historical fact that Jesus, a white bearded God came to the Americas and taught his gospel, healed the sick, and blessed the children and returned to the heavens and promised to return again.

The Mayan, Aztec, and other tribes of central American stories, along with Cortez's stories of Jesus's visit to these people tie the BOM to these people directly.

That is why I say as time goes by, the story of Jesus visiting the Americas will just continue to grow and more evidence will be uncovered and the BOM will just be the recipient of truth, since it is the only book that chronicles Jesus's actual visit to the Americas.

The BOM will just get stronger and stronger as a witness to truthfulness that Jesus Christ lived and is the Son of God and Savior of the world, because 2 major parts of the world, thousands of miles apart now testify that their people saw the living Jesus Christ. It will also be a witness that JS was a prophet of God, who brought the BOM forth by the gift and power and authority of God. It will also witness that the Church of Jesus Christ has been restored again to the earth. This is the BOM challenge: Read the BOM with real intent and you will know that Jesus is the Christ, that JS was his prophet, and that The Church of Jesus Christ has been restored again to the earth.

 

[Peter1000]

LOL!! No need to capitalize that big! I already said there is evidence of white bearded men in ancient drawings. Thank you for this site---I also have it earmarked. They have this:

Kolob is an important part of Mormons’ faith. They have included its name in different hymns, called canyons and mountains after this star. Also, the Mormons name their denomination’s sub-divisions after Kolob. To them Kolob exists.



Left: A stained glass window of Joseph Smith's First Vision. Credit: Public Domain. Right: A distant star in the universe. Credit: Public Domain

Others may not be so sure. Kolob is not found in any astronomical observation, either ancient or modern. This lack of observation leads many to doubt that the star is what the Mormons say it is.

What is Kolob and how did it get its prominent position?

Why Is Kolob So Important To The Mormons?
First, Kolob’s importance comes from what is said about it in the Book of Abraham. Its first entry comes in chapter 3, verse 2 & 3 of that Mormon holy book. In that passage Abraham describes his vision and states what he saw and heard. Abraham states that he saw that Kolob was the closest star to god’s throne.

The passage has God saying that there are greater and lesser stars, with the greater ones ruling over the latter. Then God says that Kolob is the greatest of all stars and rules them all.



Detail of Facsimile No. 2 (the Hypocephalus of Sheshonq). Reference numeral 1 represents Kolob according to Joseph Smith. Critics interpret this as an altered figure of a creator god. Credit: Public Domain

Second, the rotation and essence of time is not the same as that on Earth. Mormons claim that Kolob’s rotation is similar to God’s timing where one day equals a thousand years on Earth. The Mormon’s also say that the Garden of Eden worked on God’s time.

In their reckoning Kolob fell from the presence of the Earth when Adam sinned.

Third, Mormon’s believe that Kolob gives light to the whole universe. Because it was the first star created and is nearest the source of all light, Kolob mimics God.

Has Kolob Been Found?
If one searches the different astronomical observations that have taken place from the ancient world to the present, one would see that there has been no sighting of the Mormon star Kolob. No one has seen this star, not even Mormon astronomers.

There is some debate even in Mormon circles if the star is real or just a metaphor for Christ. There are numerous reasons put forward as to why no one can see this star. One reason is as described, it is a metaphor and not a real star.

Another is that Kolob is found in a different solar system or galaxy. Its location is hard to determine because it may have been given a scientific name instead of being identified with the Mormon belief.

A third reason is that Kolob’s location is in a different reality or realm. For example, it may be found in another dimension. It is hard to prove the existence of a star that resides in a dimension unknown to man.

Is Kolob Mentioned In The Bible?
Unfortunately for those who think Kolob actually is mentioned in the Bible, the star has no direct mentioning in Christian scriptures. What Mormons do is take passages out of context and apply it to their belief about Kolob and then declare that their star is found within the biblical pages.



Facsimile No. 2 from the Book of Abraham, which is the most interesting book in the Pearl of Great Price, which Smith said discusses Kolob. The part Smith said refers to Kolob is numbered by a "1" in the center. Credit: Public Domain

One argument for its inclusion in the Bible compares the lack of the name Jesus being mentioned in the Old Testament. The Old Testament talks about Jesus but never uses his name. The same thinking applies to Kolob. Different verses talk about Kolob but does not directly use its name.

It is a stretch of an argument which has no exegetical foundation to it. Kolob is mentioned only in Mormon sacred texts, with the book of Abraham as the key source.

Kolob In Television
There is rumor that Kolob was the inspiration behind the mother planet used in Battle Star Galactica. The creators of that show use the term Kobol but describe that planet as the origin of life

Whether that is true or not doesn’t change the status of the Mormon star. To the Mormons it is the most important star in the universe and the one nearest to God’s throne. Its existence is a question for another day as even the Mormons cannot agree if it is a physical or metaphorical location.

One thing for sure, Kolob has no association with the Bible nor the Christian faith. It is a star that is found in Mormon religious teaching alone.

Now did you somehow move on to Kolob?

 

[Peter1000]

This sentence from post #1296:

"What Mormons do is take passages out of context and apply it to their belief about Kolob and then declare that their star is found within the biblical pages."​

is true about any Mormon stated belief:

"What Mormons do is take passages out of context and apply it to their belief about ___ and then declare that ______ is found within the biblical pages."​

which is another way of saying: Mormonism twist Scriptures.

You are aware that post#1296 was from mmksparbud? Right?

It is not from "He is the way".

So did mmksparbud twist something?

 

[mmksparbud]

Now did you somehow move on to Kolob?

It was just an article that appears on the site that He is the way posted from in gigantic letters. I was posting it to show that, that article, though agreeing that there are stories of bearded white men, is not an acknowledgement that this site agrees with the Mormon interpretation of things. There are articles to the fact that the Vikings had by the time they got here, been practicing Christianity. And that it is they that spread the message of the Christ to the Indians.

 

[mmksparbud]

You are aware that post#1296 was from mmksparbud? Right?

It is not from "He is the way".

So did mmksparbud twist something?

No, I did not twist anything. She is quoting from the article I posted about Kolob.

 

[dzheremi]

Peter...I don't even know what to say anymore, my friend. You're clearly a firm believer in the BOM and in Mormonism, and I am really trying to be the kind of person who does not knock someone down for their belief (probably still failing in that, but I am trying; largely from my interactions with you), even if I disagree with it. After all, I am in the extreme minority here with regard to my specific confession ('Oriental' Orthodoxy, or as we call it: Orthodoxy), so no doubt everyone here disagrees with me in at least some specifics, which we have thankfully managed to so far avoid. But not only is there no connection between those stories (which do exist, and no one denies that fact; see the good posts by mmksparbud on them) and the BOM but in the brains of devoted Mormons who make connections that are not there in real life, I feel like we shouldn't lose the 'big picture' as we travel through the forest, bickering over the trees -- and that 'big picture' is that Mormonism is not salvific, because Mormonism does not worship the true God.

Your fellow Mormon He Is The Way just posted in another thread about how God has a resurrected spiritual body (resurrected from what, we have asked...and received no answer), and there is no Trinity; Jesus' connection to the Father is apparently limited to doing the Father's will and command. This "Jesus was a really wise guy/good teacher/(generic 'good' attributes that specifically disclaim His divinity)" crap has always been popular among the heretics, starting with the adoptionists and moving on through the Arians, and the Muslims, and eventually reaching Joseph Smith and his particular group, which you are a part of. It has always been wrong. It has always been a denial of God. "He who has not the Son has not the Father either", and this 'demotion' of Christ is just such a denial.

What can we do with that but say "No, that is not The Way"? Even if you had 10,000 examples of native Mayan or Aztec or Olmec or whatever stories that supposedly 'prove' the connection to the BOM that you so desperately want to be there, what would that do to fix the inherently blasphemous, satanic, God-denying theology that is at the heart of the Mormon religion?

Nothing. Mormonism is broken, and not fixable, because at its root it is not from God. God does not tell this group of people to worship Him in the uncreated and undivided perfect, coessential Holy Trinity, and another group to worship Him as a sex-crazed "father" figure who produced 'spirit children' for this world and in the end will recall those who followed a farm boy treasure-hunting philanderer named Joseph Smith to the ultra-special third heaven or whatever Mormon soteriology claims. That is all bunk. You're not worshiping God. You've (seemingly) dedicated your life to a religion that brings you farther away from God than following any one of the many Protestant sects that were around Joseph Smith at the time which his supposed 'vision' told him to reject. He would've been better off being a Methodist, or a Presbyterian, or any other type of normal, Trinitarian, Creed-professing Christian. And so would you. The difference is that Joseph Smith and all the other early Mormon leaders are all dead. You are alive. But it later than we all think. Do not waste any more time with the false prophets and false gods of the Mormon religion. Christ calls all to Him, not to a circle of mostly octogenarian quasi-religious businessmen in Utah who couldn't prophesy that Tuesday is coming on a Monday afternoon.

 

[twin.spin]

No, I did not twist anything. She is quoting from the article I posted about Kolob.

fyi … I'm a he.

Correct you did not twist anything and I was referencing the article … which if one was following the flow of the posts (and in context) would have realized that.

 

[mmksparbud]

fyi … I'm a he.

Correct you did not twist anything and I was referencing the article … which if one was following the flow of the posts (and in context) would have realized that.

LOL! Sorry about that---and I've had to correct so many others for calling me a he!

 

[dzheremi]

But in place of an avatar you've got a little outline of a person in a dress above your name and info, mmksparbud! Okay, so that might not settle things with some people these days, but come on...!

 

[Peter1000]

thus your reply and subsequent question:

"I have never said that Kolob is mentioned in the Bible. Is Trinity mentioned in the Bible?"​

to what was stated previously concerning Kolob and Mormonism creeds* in general was nothing other than purposeful sidetrack* tactic commonly used by Mormons like yourself … and are continuing sidetracking with subsequent links.
_______________________________________________________________
*creed: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• a formal statement or system of esp. religious beliefs
• a set of beliefs that influences the way you live

* sidetrack: ~ Cambridge dictionary

• to direct a person's attention away from an activity or subject

I am sure dzheremi does not need the Cambridge definition of "creed" or "sidetrack". Nor do I or anyone I know on this forum. If you do, please keep these to yourself. Thank you.