How to answer the question "well life would have begun eventually"

The Barbarian · Jul 13, 2019

I already told you that the Fall was a real event involving real people. The parable of the Fall is about that.

-57 said:
Who were the people?

I already told you that there were two people from which all of us are descended. Those two. Adam and Eve. You forget quickly.

The Barbarian · Jul 13, 2019

-57 said:
It is you who painted the target.

Nope. Your guy saw an arrow in a tree, and drew a bulls-eye around it. Just like the shuffled deck in my example, or life developing as it has. If you call it in advance, then you have some justification. Looking at it after the fact, and pretending to calculate the likelihood, is foolish. The likelihood of each of those happening is 1.0, after the fact. The likelihood of either happening the same way again, is very, very tiny. That's where he misled you, perhaps because he didn't know any better.

And yes, God is omnipotent, so He's absolutely capable of using contingency to effect His will.

The cards will always be in an order.

They will always be in some order. But now that you realize that stupendously unlikely things (well under the Borels Limit) happen constantly.

Now, if it were to happen twice, precisely the same way, or if someone calls it in advance, then we can be very sure that someone is playing with the system.

But God doesn't have to tinker with nature; He made it to do His will, and He got it right the first time. Omnipotent, you know.

Let Him be God, even if amateur mathematicians don't think He can do it.

-57 · Jul 14, 2019

The Barbarian said:
I already told you that the Fall was a real event involving real people. The parable of the Fall is about that.

I already told you that there were two people from which all of us are descended. Those two. Adam and Eve. You forget quickly.

Then why do you teach evolutionism?

-57 · Jul 14, 2019

The Barbarian said:
But God doesn't have to tinker with nature; He made it to do His will, and He got it right the first time. Omnipotent, you know.

Yes,God used 6 24 hour time periods then rested for a 7th.

The Barbarian · Jul 14, 2019

-57 said:
Yes,God used 6 24 hour time periods then rested for a 7th.

As you learned, the "yom" in Genesis are parables for the kinds of created things.

The Barbarian · Jul 14, 2019

Barbarian observes:
I already told you that the Fall was a real event involving real people. The parable of the Fall is about that.

I already told you that there were two people from which all of us are descended. Those two. Adam and Eve. You forget quickly.

-57 said:
Then why do you teach evolutionism?

"Evolutionism" is your invention. It's what you teach. But as you now realize, nothing in Genesis is contrary to evolution.

ev·o·lu·tion-ism
/ˌevəˈlo͞oSH(ə)n/izm

noun
noun: evolutionism;

1.
the stories creationists tell about evolutionary theory, to avoid discussing the real theory.
"evolutionism is calling God a liar"
2.
the numerous misconceptions creationists have about evolution
"evolutionism is about the origin of life"
synonyms: straw man, diversion, misconception

-57 · Jul 14, 2019

The Barbarian said:
As you learned, the "yom" in Genesis are parables for the kinds of created things.

Yom means day.....not kinds of created things.

-57 · Jul 14, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Barbarian observes:

I already told you that there were two people from which all of us are descended. Those two. Adam and Eve. You forget quickly.

What about Adams parents? His siblings..cousins...uncles, aunts...what happened to those people? They had no descendents?

The Barbarian · Jul 14, 2019

-57 said:
What about Adams parents? His siblings..cousins...uncles, aunts...what happened to those people? They had no descendents?

Not today. Actually our last male ancestor of every person today, died much later. As did our last female ancestor of everyone today.

We don't know when God stepped in and gave those two immortal souls directly, but He did. Would you be offended if it was H. erectus, rather than H. sapiens? Most creationists, when called on to classify H erectus, admit that species was human.

The Barbarian · Jul 14, 2019

-57 said:
Yom means day....

Or "in my day", or "long unspecified period of time" or "always" or "forever" or a number of other things.

Although yom is commonly rendered as day in English translations, the word yom has several literal definitions:[1]

Period of light (as contrasted with the period of darkness),
General term for time
Point of time
Sunrise to sunset
Sunset to next sunset
A year (in the plural; I Sam 27:7; Ex 13:10, etc.)
Time period of unspecified length.
A long, but finite span of time - age - epoch - season.

Yom - Wikipedia

-57 · Jul 15, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Not today. Actually our last male ancestor of every person today, died much later. As did our last female ancestor of everyone today.

When was much later?

Secondly, What about Adams parents? His siblings..cousins...uncles, aunts...what happened to those people when they died?

The Barbarian said:
We don't know when God stepped in and gave those two immortal souls directly, but He did. Would you be offended if it was H. erectus, rather than H. sapiens? Most creationists, when called on to classify H erectus, admit that species was human.

According to your theory god stepped in and gave two immortal souls....but you keep on failing to mention the others that were around...and why they don't exist today.

The Barbarian · Jul 15, 2019

Barbarian observes:
Not today. Actually our last male ancestor of every person today, died much later. As did our last female ancestor of everyone today.

-57 said:
When was much later?

When the overall population size does not change (as is likely to have happened for long periods of human history), men have, on average, just one son. In this case, evolutionary theory predicts that for any given man there is a high probability that his paternal line will eventually come to an end. All of his male descendants will then have inherited Y chromosomes from other men. In fact, it is highly probable that at some point in the past, all men except one possessed Y chromosomes that by now are extinct. All men living now, then, would have a Y chromosome descended from that one man — identified as Y-chromosome Adam. (The biblical reference is a bit of a misnomer because this Adam was by no means the only man alive at his time.)
...
Bustamante and his team sequenced the Y chromosomes of 69 males from around the world and uncovered about 9,000 previously unknown DNA sequence variations. They used these variations to create a more reliable molecular clock and found that Adam lived between 120,000 and 156,000 years ago.
Genetic Adam and Eve did not live too far apart in time

This wasn't the original Adam, of course. Just the last common paternal ancestor of everyone living today.

Secondly, What about Adams parents? His siblings..cousins...uncles, aunts...what happened to those people when they died?

God doesn't say. But read above.

According to your theory god stepped in and gave two immortal souls.

So God says in Genesis.

...but you keep on failing to mention the others that were around...and why they don't exist today.

See above. Creationists have no problem with a little god, prancing around, making a tree here, and a bear there, but they don't think the real God is capable of picking two humans to become the ancestors of all of us.

-57 · Jul 15, 2019

The Barbarian said:
See above. Creationists have no problem with a little god, prancing around, making a tree here, and a bear there, but they don't think the real God is capable of picking two humans to become the ancestors of all of us.

You contradicted yourself when you said.....
In this case, evolutionary theory predicts that for any given man there is a high probability that his paternal line will eventually come to an end.

You still need to find away to get rid of the offspring of those people living when your "Adam" was living.

The Barbarian · Jul 15, 2019

-57 said:
You contradicted yourself when you said.....
In this case, evolutionary theory predicts that for any given man there is a high probability that his paternal line will eventually come to an end.

Nope. Perhaps you don't know what "probability" means.

You still need to find away to get rid of the offspring of those people living when your "Adam" was living.

Nope. As you just learned, the genetic evidence shows that all of us are descended from one male, who lived roughly 130,000 years ago.

-57 · Jul 15, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Nope. Perhaps you don't know what "probability" means.

Nope. As you just learned, the genetic evidence shows that all of us are descended from one male, who lived roughly 130,000 years ago.

Where does the Bible teach the whole population was reduced to 1 male?

Are you suggesting that the direct line from Adam ....or your one male ...goes from Adam to Jesus...unbroken and took 130,000 years...despite the Bible saying otherwise?

The Barbarian · Jul 15, 2019

-57 said:
Where does the Bible teach the whole population was reduced to 1 male?

Genesis says so.

Are you suggesting that the direct line from Adam ....or your one male ...goes from Adam to Jesus...unbroken and took 130,000 years...despite the Bible saying otherwise?

The Bible doesn't give a date or say how long ago it was. That's man's addition to scripture to make it fit his own expectations.

stevevw · Jul 19, 2019

jude77778 said:
Hello
I always get evolutionists say to me "well life would have begun eventually as the world is billions of years old" how can I answer this please?

I think an important extension of this thought experiment would be if the earth evolved the conditions to eventually allow life to come about how many more planets should also have life. All the planets evolved before earth that are around the same distance from a star should have some form of life because according to evolution there is no intelligence or help from an outside agent. But if there is not then there must be more to how life came about. Either there are many special conditions required to have life and/or there was some help for life to come about.

The Barbarian · Jul 20, 2019

stevevw said:
I think an important extension of this thought experiment would be if the earth evolved the conditions to eventually allow life to come about how many more planets should also have life. All the planets evolved before earth that are around the same distance from a star should have some form of life because according to evolution there is no intelligence or help from an outside agent.

No, that's not part of evolutionary theory. For example, the evolution of dogs came about by the intervention of humans, although the evidence is accumulating that the recent evolution of humans came about by our interactions with dogs as well.

But if there is not then there must be more to how life came about. Either there are many special conditions required to have life and/or there was some help for life to come about.

Evolutionary theory is indifferent to the way life began, and makes no claims about that. Darwin,for example, just assumed that God created the first living things.

Gottservant · Jul 23, 2019

If it takes a million years for the Earth to revolve around the Sun, the first Day is a million years.

The point is the Bible does not account for the number of facts that can be attributed to the beginning, it accounts for the unique perspective of God, as pertains to universal time.

Other Bibles on other planets, say the same thing: you need to put God first, to understand in what way love came later.

The Barbarian · Jul 24, 2019

stevevw said:
I think an important extension of this thought experiment would be if the earth evolved the conditions to eventually allow life to come about how many more planets should also have life. All the planets evolved before earth that are around the same distance from a star should have some form of life because according to evolution there is no intelligence or help from an outside agent. But if there is not then there must be more to how life came about. Either there are many special conditions required to have life and/or there was some help for life to come about.

We can only figure out how many planets might be like ours so that life of the sort we know about can happen. That's really speculative; even now that we're finding extrasolar planets, we can only know about conditions in what's a very tiny part of the universe.

Personally, I've always been puzzled as to why creationists are unwilling to accept a God capable of creating a world that would bring forth living things as He intended. Particularly since that's what the Bible says.

How to answer the question "well life would have begun eventually"

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