How to answer the bible errors

[FriendlyJosh]

I am by no means an expert, am still reading the bible front to back myself actually, but I have read quite a few scriptures throughout it, and I can tell you, atleast from my experience there haven't been any "errors" or "flaws", only misinterpretations by myself and I feel others aswell. I urge everyone who thinks otherwise to really search for an answer on anything you perceive to be a flaw. To give you an example of a couple misunderstandings, in Genesis God said he created man, in one part, then said it again in another part, an antheist pointed this out to me, claiming it was a contradiction, in reality it was just God giving an overview firstly, and giving more detail the second time. He does this aswell as repeats things throughout the bible. To give you another example, a really popular misconception I recently learned, when you hear the "eye for an eye" you assume God is talking about getting revenge. Even Gandhi thought this with his famous "eye for an eye makes the world blind". In reality, if you read the context of how and when God said it in the bible, he said it after he had made man establish the judicial system. Therefore he was referring to trials and punishments being fit for the crime. I learned this from GotQuestions.org, is a great mailing list you can subscribe too. Anyway again please don't be under the impression there are contradictions, really try and find the answer instead.

 

[Goinheix]

Goinheix,

In reference to your question:
"Can you explain the obsenities and wightcraft?"

Answer,

Regarding witchcraft:
Genesis 2:21-22
"Then the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and took one of his ribs and closed up the place from which he had removed it, and made the rib into a woman, and brought her to the man."

Also see: Jesus walking on water and more.

Vulgar and obscene:
Genesis 19:4-8
A group of sexually depraved men demands that Lot turn over to them his two male visitors. Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead.

Genesis 38:9
Onan "spills his seed" on the ground rather than fulfill his obligation to his widowed sister-in-law to father a child by her.

EZ 4:12
"And thou shall eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread..."


Care for more?

Kutte

Regarding witchcraft:
I stil dont see what you mean by witchcraft

Regarding obsenituies:
The Bible portrait people as people is. If somebody is obsene the Bible will not avoid telling us how he was. Heroes like Tarzan, Zorro, 007 never are portrated doing obsenities. Heroes like Washington, Bolivar, San Martin never are portrated doing obsenities. Bible heroes are portrated doing all they did, good and obsenities.

 

[Kutte]

Goinheix,

My answers to your post #44 such as:
"I still don't see what you mean by witchcraft"?

Witchcraft is a practice using un-natural methods of changing or influencing things.


In regards to your comment, "The Bible portraits people as people is".

Answer:
Not always. EZ 4:12 portraits God in a way which must be considered quiet vulgar and obscene.

Anyway, regarding your argument that the Bible portraits people simply by the way they were or are, being vulgar and obscene, one must conclude that the same applies to many secular books which many Christian denominations want to ban because of it. Since, in this respect, the Bible isn't much different, the ban would need to be applied to the Bible as well.

God bless, Kutte

 

[His_disciple3]

Goinheix,

In reference to your question:
"Can you explain the obsenities and wightcraft?"

Answer,

Regarding witchcraft:
Genesis 2:21-22
"Then the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and took one of his ribs and closed up the place from which he had removed it, and made the rib into a woman, and brought her to the man."

Also see: Jesus walking on water and more.

Vulgar and obscene:
Genesis 19:4-8
A group of sexually depraved men demands that Lot turn over to them his two male visitors. Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead.

Kutte

these weren't sexually depraved men, they were homosexuals desiring to be with men, Lot offer his daughters knowing who he was dealing with

 

[Jerushabelle]

Witchcraft is a practice using un-natural methods of changing or influencing things.

Witchcraft: 1)The practices or powers of witches or wizards, esp. when regarded as due to dealings with evil spirits or the devil: also called black magic. 2) An instance of such practices. 3) Extraordinary influence or fascination: witchery.


Best we leave humanistic perspectives in the trash when discussing matters pertaining to God. Witchcraft from a Christian perspective is anything but un-natural manipulation. Call a spade a spade, Kutte. We're not qualified to do a word dance around God.

 

[Jerushabelle]

EZ 4:12 portraits God in a way which must be considered quiet vulgar and obscene.

Anyway, regarding your argument that the Bible portraits people simply by the way they were or are, being vulgar and obscene, one must conclude that the same applies to many secular books which many Christian denominations want to ban because of it. Since, in this respect, the Bible isn't much different, the ban would need to be applied to the Bible as well.

There is wisdom in putting as much space as possible between ourselves and evil things such as humanistic writings which foolishly attempt to diminish God. You would fault that?
When one considers the whole of Ezekial 4, it doesn't seem the least bit like God is quite vulgar or obscene. It seems more like God knows what He is talking about and we don't. It seems more like God is in control and we aren't!

 

[Jerushabelle]

The orginal 1611 for example the printing press letters were so small that I's and J's were often mixed up and U's and V's were also mixed Up.

Surely you have a qualified source for this information? If so, please post it for all us uneducated folk.

 

[joyusdays]

Servant Steven...thank you so much for your time. i would like to study with you when I can. I have two jobs and get very little time during the week. But I would like to keep asking questions if that's okay...as I am asking many people questions.

I have to digest all that you wrote, but if you don't mind, as questions come to my head, can you respond?

That whole page of bible errors that I found I don't feel like I need an answer for, but the predestination/free will does confuse me.

I have it stuck in my head that God first chose me before I chose Him and actually this is about the only thing that comforts me. Why? Because I know God will never leave me. I am one of His. I know, as a shepard, He makes sure i don't leave Him.

The verse in Romans says that Before the twins had done either good or bad God Chose Jacob. So I looked up a well known teacher who has read the whole bible and and he says this.

For example...
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary (I am pretty sure he read the whole bible many times and also believed he was lead by the spirit into all truth) http://www.eaec.org/faithhallfame/matthewhenry.htm
But here is his commentary on it:
9:6-13 The rejection of the Jews by the gospel dispensation, did not break God's promise to the patriarchs. The promises and threatenings shall be fulfilled. Grace does not run in the blood; nor are saving benefits always found with outward church privileges. Not only some of Abraham's seed were chosen, and others not, but God therein wrought according to the counsel of his own will. God foresaw both Esau and Jacob as born in sin, by nature children of wrath even as others. If left to themselves they would have continued in sin through life; but for wise and holy reasons, not made known to us, he purposed to change Jacob's heart, and to leave Esau to his perverseness. This instance of Esau and Jacob throws light upon the Divine conduct to the fallen race of man. The whole Scripture shows the difference between the professed Christian and the real believer. Outward privileges are bestowed on many who are not the children of God. There is, however, full encouragement to diligent use of the means of grace which God has appointed.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Servant Steven...thank you so much for your time. i would like to study with you when I can. I have two jobs and get very little time during the week. But I would like to keep asking questions if that's okay...as I am asking many people questions.

I have to digest all that you wrote, but if you don't mind, as questions come to my head, can you respond?

That whole page of bible errors that I found I don't feel like I need an answer for, but the predestination/free will does confuse me.

I have it stuck in my head that God first chose me before I chose Him and actually this is about the only thing that comforts me. Why? Because I know God will never leave me. I am one of His. I know, as a shepard, He makes sure i don't leave Him.

The verse in Romans says that Before the twins had done either good or bad God Chose Jacob. So I looked up a well known teacher who has read the whole bible and he says this.

God will not leave you as long as you don't leave Him. It isn't God who makes sure you don't leave Him. It is you who must make sure you don't leave Him. If this were not so, Satan would not bother the saved and try to tempt them away from the Father. The choice has always been ours; given to us by God and we must make it every day.

 

[served]

Mat 18:12 `What think ye? if a man may have an hundred sheep, and there may go astray one of them, doth he not--having left the ninety-nine, having gone on the mountains--seek that which is gone astray?
Mat 18:13 and if it may come to pass that he doth find it, verily I say to you, that he doth rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that have not gone astray;
Mat 18:14 so it is not will in presence of your Father who is in the heavens, that one of these little ones may perish.


These verses come to mind.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Mat 18:12 `What think ye? if a man may have an hundred sheep, and there may go astray one of them, doth he not--having left the ninety-nine, having gone on the mountains--seek that which is gone astray?
Mat 18:13 and if it may come to pass that he doth find it, verily I say to you, that he doth rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that have not gone astray;
Mat 18:14 so it is not will in presence of your Father who is in the heavens, that one of these little ones may perish.


These verses come to mind.

Amen! But going astray is not the same as choosing to deny God. When one considers the choices made by Peter and the choices made by Judas, the conclusion must be that while God does not want any one of us to perish it is our choices which determine whether we do or not.

 

[VCViking]

I so bad want to know the truth...

What don't you just ask God if the Bible is true? If everything in it is true and it is His inerrant Word? I did that when I was first saved because when I read the Bible for the first time, I did not agree with some things but when I prayed to God and asked Him if this was truely His Word and if everything in it was true, He revealed to me it was. Never looked back. He'll do the same for you if you are truely seeking.

 

[wayfaring man]

It's late and not able to take the time to go over so called "errors" one by one, but at a glance some, if not all of them appear to be not errors as much as differing descriptions from different perspectives. Take the one about Jesus' lineage for example, I think one account uses Joseph's line, while the other uses Mary's, and that's why they are different.

As to the age of that the king began to reign, Israel was divided into two groups ( Judah and Israel ), so one figure may represent his reign beginning in one, and the other figure represent the start of his reign in the other.

About the only error I can think of in Scripture is in Matthew where a prophesy is misattributed to Jeremiah ( likely because there's a similar passage there ), while the prophesy actually is found in Zechariah.

And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me. <-----> Matthew 27:6-10

And Jeremiah said, The word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it.
So Hanameel mine uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD.
And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver. <-----> Jeremiah 32:6-9

And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. <-----> Zechariah 11:10-13

Yet this appears to be an "honest mistake", along the lines of an unintended typo, which presents no significant detriment doctrinally. And is likely allowed to demonstrate that we/they aren't fully perfected yet.

May The Name of The Lord Be Praised !

wm

 

[wayfaring man]

Regarding predestination and free will, there's Scriptural support for both.

Which indicates that it's wrong to believe in an extremely one-sided way regarding the issue.

One way of addressing this is to say -

There's basically two false religions.

1. Says it's completely up to us to ensure that we are saved.

2. And the other claims it's all God, to the point that our choices and behaviors have no bearing or role whatsoever.

The truth is salvation a cooperative process, as in -

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. <-----> Philippians 2:12+13

Surely God's working is by far the greatest, yet apparently unless we are willing to surrender to work with Him, we can remain unsaved, even though He is willing that all be saved.

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. <-----> 1st Timothy 2:1-4

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. <-----> Romans 11:22

Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are his. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. <-----> 2nd Timothy 2:19

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. <-----> Romans 8:24+25

In your patience possess ye your souls. <-----> Luke 21:19 ( Words of Jesus )

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

 

[Kutte]

Jerushabelle,

In reference to your comment:
"There is wisdom in putting as much space as possible between ourselves and evil things such as humanistic writings which foolishly attempt to diminish God. You would fault that?
When one considers the whole of Ezekial 4, it doesn't seem the least bit like God is quite vulgar or obscene. It seems more like God knows what He is talking about and we don't. It seems more like God is in control and we aren't!


Response:

Good excuse, which doesn't change the fact that we find quiet a bit of vulgarity in the pages of the OT, which qualifies to be called at least inappropriate, if not obscene.
Therefore, by Christian standards, verses like that in secular books are usually condemned.
Are we dealing with double standards?

Kutte

 

[joyusdays]

please see post #51 for my edit. Thank you so much!

 

[joyusdays]

God will not leave you as long as you don't leave Him. It isn't God who makes sure you don't leave Him. It is you who must make sure you don't leave Him. If this were not so, Satan would not bother the saved and try to tempt them away from the Father. The choice has always been ours; given to us by God and we must make it every day.

I have heard what you have said before, but being afraid of death and going to hell when I was little was horrible. Sheep are stupid and they tend to stray. If it were up to me, then who knows where I'd be...but I believe with all of my heart that the good shepard will always keep me.

Here is the thing...knowing God will never leave me... and will always keep me (see below) has been the most comforting part of my spiritual journey...but my question becomes "why don't all see it this way...why are we divided on this issue if we all have the same holy spirit, have all read the context, and have all read the whole bible...this is where I get confused.

This is the part of christianity that does bring me comfort:
March 3, 1996
Bethlehem Baptist Church
John Piper, Pastor
"I AM GOD ALMIGHTY, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY"
"I Have Other Sheep"
(John 10:16)


I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they shall hear My voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.



I Have Other Sheep. . .Not Of This Fold

We conclude this morning the series on the theme, "I am God Almighty, be fruitful and multiply." I want us to focus on verse 16 because it is such a clear statement of the authority and power of Christ to be fruitful and to multiply his church. If we are to fulfill the prayer goal of 2000 by 2000, especially on the home front (winning 2000 people to faith in Christ by the end of the year 2000) it will be because of the power and authority of Christ revealed in this verse. Jesus says,

I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Let's clarify some of Jesus' terms here. He says, "I have other sheep that are not of this fold." "This fold" refers to the fold of Israel. He is saying that he has sheep that are among the gentiles, the nations. They are not Jews. They do not belong to the Jewish fold. I begin gathering my sheep from the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt. 15:24; 10:5-6). But I have sheep that are not in Israel. I must gather them also.

But he also clarifies that not all Jews are his sheep. Some are and some aren't. When Jesus says in verse 15, "I am the good shepherd; and I know my own, and my own know me," he was implying that some sheep (in this fold) are Christ's and some are not. This is a different image than we have in the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46). Here some sheep are Christ's and some are not. Notice this more clearly in verses 3b-4:

. . . he calls HIS OWN sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them.

Verse 14:

I am the good shepherd; I know MY OWN and MY OWN know me.
In other words, not all the people in the fold of Israel truly belonged to Christ. Some were his sheep. Some were not. As Paul wrote in Romans 9:6, "Not all those from Israel are Israel."



"My Sheep Hear My Voice. . .And They Follow Me"

Now this raises the question: How is it that some sheep inside the fold are not Christ's sheep and some people outside the fold are Christ's sheep? It sounds like people are sheep before they meet Christ. "I have other sheep -- outside this fold, among the gentiles -- I must bring them also." So how did they become his sheep if he has not called them yet?

The answer is that God has chosen a people for his own from Israel and from the nations; and these are his sheep. He then gives them to his Son. You can see this clearly in John 17:6. Jesus says to his Father,

I have manifested your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world; thine they were, and you gave them to me.

So before the disciples came to Jesus, they belonged to God. God had chosen them.

This is the deepest reason why the sheep come to Christ. It's even clearer in John 6:37,

All that the Father gives me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out.

Those who come to Jesus come because they have been given to Jesus by the Father. They were his by his design and choice, and they come to Jesus because they are God's own. (See 6:39,44,65; 17:9,24; 18:9)

Be sure you see the staggering implication of these verses. They are designed to fill us with hope that Christ will indeed be fruitful and multiply his church triumphantly. "All that the Father give me will come to me." And they are designed to humble us and nullify all our presumption that we could have or would have ever come to Christ on our own. Look at verse 27:

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Why did you recognize the voice of Jesus when he called you? Because you were his sheep. It's not the other way around.

Being one of Christ's sheep enables you to recognize your shepherd and respond to his call. Responding to his call does not make you one of his sheep. If you hear and recognize his voice it is because you already are one of his sheep, chosen by the Father. You come to the Son because the Father gives you to the Son (John 6:44,65).

That is the startling thing about this chapter. It reveals to us the presumption of thinking that the final determination of our life lies in our own power. In John 10:24 unbelievers were demanding of Jesus that he tell them plainly who he is. Jesus said in verse 25 that he had already told them plainly enough. So why hadn't they believed? Could they boast that their unbelief was the final, ultimate power of the human will to frustrate the designs of God Almighty. Listen to Jesus' answer in verse 26:

You do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep.
Make sure you get the order right here. He does not say, "You are not my sheep, because you do not believe." He says, "You do not believe because you are not my sheep." The final boast of unbelief is destroyed by the sovereignty of God to choose his sheep before they believe, according to his own grace and wisdom (2 Timothy 1:9).

Now on the basis of that great free and sovereign grace consider how full of hope verse 16 is for our mission as a church. "I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also; and they shall hear my voice; and they shall become one flock with one shepherd." "I am God Almighty, be fruitful and multiply" rings powerfully from this verse.

John 10:16: A Basis For Hopeful Evangelism

1. "I Have Other Sheep Not Of This Fold"

Start with these words: "I have other sheep that are not of this fold." Christ has people in the world besides those already converted -- other people besides us. There will always be people who argue that the doctrine of God's sovereignty over the will of man makes local evangelism and foreign missions unnecessary. If God chooses his sheep before they believe, why evangelize the lost in Minneapolis? But the fact is, the sovereignty of God over the wills of men doesn't make evangelism unnecessary; it makes it hopeful.

John Alexander, a former president of Inter-Varsity said in a message at Urbana 67, "At the beginning of my missionary career I said that if predestination were true I could not be a missionary. Now after 20 years of struggling with the hardness of the human heart, I say I could never be a missionary unless I believed in the doctrine of predestination." It gives hope that Christ most certainly has a people among the nations. "I have other sheep."

There are numerous motives for pressing on in evangelism in Minneapolis and among the nations -- for persevering and pleading and preaching and praying for the lost. One of them is the confidence that God has other sheep, and they will respond. It was precisely this truth that encouraged the apostle Paul when he was downcast in Corinth.

And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, "Do not be afraid, but speak and do not be silent; for I am with you, and no man shall attack you to harm you; for I have many people in this city." (Acts 18:9-10)

"I have other sheep that are not of this fold." It is a promise full of hope for those who dream about pressing on in evangelism here and about new fields of missionary labor.

2. Gathering The Scattered Children Of God

Here's another evidence of this hope-filled purpose of Christ to gather other sheep into his fold. Look at John 11:51-52. Caiaphas, the high priest, has given a prophecy which John now interprets like this:

He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

Christ died to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. These scattered children are identical with the "other sheep that are not of this fold." Which means that world evangelization, for the apostle John, is the ingathering of the children of God -- that is the finding and saving of the "other sheep" that are not of this fold.

The mission of world evangelization is as sure as the death of Christ is effective. John 11:52 says Jesus died to gather into one the scattered children of God. John 10:15 says, Jesus laid down his life for the sheep (including those that are not of this fold). So the evangelistic mission of the church can no more fail than the death of Christ can fail. Gathering in the sheep of God is as positive and sure as the blood of Christ is precious to the Father.

3. "They Will Hear My Voice" -- Through You!

Another encouragement in John 10:16 that our evangelism will not be in vain is that the Lord himself has promised to bring his lost sheep home. He promises to do it. "I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also; they will hear my voice." HE will bring them. They will hear HIS voice. But how? How today, when Jesus is not physically here?

The answer is: through your word. As the Father sent the Son to seek and to save the lost, so the Son sends his people. The key verse is found in Jesus' prayer in John l7:20, "I do not pray for these [his disciples] only but also for those who believe in me through their word." "Through their word!"

This is the text that everyone has to deal with who would say, "Well, if Christ calls his own sheep and if Christ gathers the children of God, and if the sheep and the children are already chosen, then we don't need to evangelize." That response is mere human presumption. It's not logical and its not Biblical. The simple fact is Jesus uses us to call his sheep and gather God's children.

Just as Jesus called his sheep with his own lips in Palestine, so he still calls them today with our lips, and in the gospel they hear his voice and follow him (cf. 1 John 4:6). He does it. But not without us!

This is the wonder of the gospel. When it is spoken truthfully in the power of the Spirit it is not merely the word of man. It is the word of God! (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

In other words even today it is just as true as it was in Jesus day, "My sheep hear MY voice, and I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27). It is Christ who calls in the gospel. Christ gathers. We are only ambassadors speaking in his stead. So we can take heart: all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to the Son of God and he declares, "I must bring in my other sheep." He will do it. "I am God almighty, be fruitful and multiply."

4. "They Will Hear My Voice"

Which implies one brief, final word of confidence from the text: if he brings them they will come! Verse 16: "I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and THEY WILL HEED MY VOICE." None of Christ's sheep finally reject his word. He allows some of his sheep to resist the word for a long time. But never do they reject it finally.

My purpose this morning has been mainly to give encouragement and hope to press on confidently in the great work of personal evangelism and missions, but I close with a word to those who are not yet believing. If you say, after a word like this, how shall I know if I am one of Christ's sheep, or one of the children of God scattered abroad, the answer is: Do you hear the voice of your Shepherd? I speak on behalf of the Son of God this morning:

Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest; I lay down my life for all who come; I welcome all how come; I give you eternal life and you shall never perish, and no one shall snatch you out of my hand.

Do you hear his voice? Do recognize your Savior and Master and Friend? If you do, you will come. And if you come to him. You will have life. And that life is the proof that you are Christ's. I urge you: Come.

 

[joyusdays]

Are you sure they had done neither good or bad?

Romans 9:11-13

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated"

 

[joyusdays]

What don't you just ask God if the Bible is true? If everything in it is true and it is His inerrant Word? I did that when I was first saved because when I read the Bible for the first time, I did not agree with some things but when I prayed to God and asked Him if this was truely His Word and if everything in it was true, He revealed to me it was. Never looked back. He'll do the same for you if you are truely seeking.

I believe in God with all of my heart, but with all of the divided views of how people see the bible, that is the part that confuses me. Someone recently told me that they think the bible is tailored for each individual...and I am beginning to wonder if that is true...i am still seeking for clarification on the bible.

 

[joyusdays]

Regarding predestination and free will, there's Scriptural support for both.

Which indicates that it's wrong to believe in an extremely one-sided way regarding the issue.

One way of addressing this is to say -

There's basically two false religions.

1. Says it's completely up to us to ensure that we are saved.

2. And the other claims it's all God, to the point that our choices and behaviors have no bearing or role whatsoever.

The truth is salvation a cooperative process, as in -

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. <-----> Philippians 2:12+13

Surely God's working is by far the greatest, yet apparently unless we are willing to surrender to work with Him, we can remain unsaved, even though He is willing that all be saved.

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. <-----> 1st Timothy 2:1-4

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. <-----> Romans 11:22

Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are his. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. <-----> 2nd Timothy 2:19

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. <-----> Romans 8:24+25

In your patience possess ye your souls. <-----> Luke 21:19 ( Words of Jesus )

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

So this is where my brain doesn't get it...if both sides could both be spirit filled, have read the whole bible, in all of its context, say they have been lead by the spirit to teach...etc...how come they cant agree? This causes a lack of faith for me..not that I am comforted by God's sovereignty, but that two sides claim to have heard from the Holy Spirit and believe their interpretation is correct.