How to abstain from kissing???

Melethiel said:

The one from Corinthians.

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2 Corinthians 10:3-6? No, I didn't.
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )"

You CAN experience strongholds in your mind due to lust (SEXUAL lust, that is).
Look at the men that struggle with pornography. You can't fight pornography
physically. It's an addiction that's in the mind.

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled."

Continuing using pornography as an example... the man has to cast down and bring
that imagination (thought) captive to the obedience of Christ because it's a thought
that would try to exalt itself against what the word of God speaks against. That was
my point and it was quoted in context.
The weapons of our warfare are mighty in Christ Jesus to pull down strongholds
("stongholds," plural-- meaning ANY and ALL strongholds; not just one). Whether
it's sexual lust, a lust for material things, etc.

Melethiel said:

You completely missed my point. I wasn't talking about doing "everything but" - you could never even touch a guy, and still be "impure". Purity is about more than what you do physically.

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I know that. All sin is impure. You're not teaching me anything new.
I'm talking about one aspect of purity-- sexual purity.

I also know that lust ranges from sexual lust to a lust for material things.
To clarify, so I'm no longer scrutinized, I am talking about sexual lust and
sexual purity.

Melethiel said:

Let's look at the entire passage, shall we?

2Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

5If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

9Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, 10and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass he will pass away. 11For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.

12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 13Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death
.
16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.


It's talking about testing of your faith. Way to pull something out of context.

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Agaaaaain, this was not quoted out of context.
Paul said, "Trials of VARIOUS kinds." It's most definitely a trial to maintain
sexual purity in your mind. It can be easy to maintain it physically, but
in your heart, it can be very difficult; and God looks on the heart.
Now, I'm not saying that God sends "trials." It's clearly stated by Paul in
verses 13-14 that He doesn't tempt us with any evil thing; but we're to
count it joy when we encounter temptation and overcome it because we
will be rewarded with "the crown of life."

Now the point I was making in quoting that verse is that when we dwell
on lustful thoughts (to be clear, I mean sexual lust), it causes use to
desire what we are lusting for (conceiving lust-- you can't see something
that has just been conceived); and when you continue in dwelling on
these lustful thoughts rather than casting them down and bringing them
into captivity to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor. 10:3-6), ultimately, you
can find yourself committing the sin you've been dwelling on.



Look, I think this debate stemmed from the way I agreed with Sunset2009.
I shouldn't have posted -> "" at the end of my stating that I agreed with
her. I think that's what caused you to feel the need to defend yourself,
so I apologize. But, I do agree with what she said and stand by the rest
of my posts.
I'm not condemning you for what you believe. I'm just stating what the
bible says about it and how it applies to my life, my relationship with God,
and my future husband.

I, by no means, thought (or think) that I am better than you or more
"pure" than you. I never even insinuated that. All I did was state what I
believe, posted the scriptures to reinforce my belief, and try to
encourage the OP.

K9_Trainer said:

I would even go so far as to say that purity has NOTHING to do with being physical with somebody sexually. If you sin, then you are not being pure. It doesn't matter if this sin is having sex before marriage, committing adultery, lying, treating somebody unkindly...Its a sin and sin is what makes us impure. When we become baptized we are PURIFIED from ALL sin, not just sexual sin.

This just feeds the idea that sex is dirty, and wrong. No, its not dirty, and its not wrong! Sex is a wonderful gift that God gave us sex to enjoy, He just said that we can only enjoy it within a marriage. If you disobey that commandment, its a sin just like if you break any other of His laws. Sin is what is dirty and impure, NOT sex.

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No no no no, sex is NOT impure or dirty! I agree!
It's beautiful when it's between two people who have made a covenant
before God to spend the rest of their lives together (within the confines
of marriage).
Sex is only impure and dirty when it is done OUTSIDE of marriage.

Sin is impure. Sex outside of marriage (fornication) is sin.
That being said, yes, it does have to do with purity because it is a sin.
I'm not saying that purity is alllllllllll about refraining from sexual activity.
I actually never said that, so I don't understand why almost everyone
in here is under that impression. o__o?

HisLittleHazelnut said:

Maybe someone just has a lot of libido.

My husband and I were in a long distance relationship and as such when we saw each other we kissed quite a bit. But it didn't go past kissing and actually, talking to him it didn't make him sexually aroused either.

Yes, if certain types of physical activity cause someone in the relationship to stumble into lust, don't do it. But the line is not the same for everyone.

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What's with the angry smiley? I didn't say anything that should have you all wrung up. I think it's a tad sarcastic of you to try to determine a hormonal effect based on the comment that I made about becoming aroused when engaging in kissing (foreplay). You're not a doctor, nor do you have access to any type of medical information about my hormones or that of my husband, so your comment was uncalled for.

Are you saying that your husband wasn't aroused by your kissing before you got married and now that you're married, he is? The same kissing that would arouse him NOW, isn't the same kissing that didn't arouse him when you were dating????

I don't have to 'control' myself with my own husband.

First of all, I am a 37 year old wife and mother of 3 and I have been a born again christian longer than you have been on this planet. I do believe that you need to address me with some respect... according to scripture.
1 Timothy 5:1-2
Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.

I have simply and in all honesty given you some food for thought...
Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

chaste: purity or virginity, morality with respect to sexual relations.

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If you wish to have my respect, I want some in return. Just because I'm younger than you does not mean you're allowed to talk down to me and act as if you're somehow holier than me.

8th Commandment
Exodus 20:15
Thou shalt not steal.
How did I steal from you???

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You're apparently using a different numbering than the one I'm used to. I was referring to "bearing false witness".

I didn't say that kissing is a sin... But it can lead to sin.
I noticed that you said that, and I quote, "when I have a deep, intimate kiss, I don't always want to 'get it on.'"

Here, by your own admission, you said that on occassion you want to 'get it on' when you kiss. Remember... Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks!

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I sometimes want to get it on just by looking at my man. Should I avoid looking at him until we're married? The problem is not the kissing in and of itself but my state of mind when I do it. The issue here is knowing your own boundaries. Being aroused is not a sin in and of itself - otherwise I'm sinning simply by being at a certain time of my monthly cycle.

Melethiel said:

I sometimes want to get it on just by looking at my man. Should I avoid looking at him until we're married? The problem is not the kissing in and of itself but my state of mind when I do it. The issue here is knowing your own boundaries. Being aroused is not a sin in and of itself - otherwise I'm sinning simply by being at a certain time of my monthly cycle.

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I have 32 days to go before I get married. It takes basically nothing to arouse me. However, whether I choose to dwell on it and allow it to become lust is where I must hold myself accountable to God.

Melethiel said:

If you wish to have my respect, I want some in return. Just because I'm younger than you does not mean you're allowed to talk down to me and act as if you're somehow holier than me.

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I didn't talk down to you. You just have a nasty little attitude. I don't have to have your respect for me... that's for your own good, mandated by the word of God. I don't know you from Adam's housecat and could really give two hoots in hades whether or not you respect me. I have the respect of my husband, children and closest friends and that's all I need.

Melethiel said:

You're apparently using a different numbering than the one I'm used to. I was referring to "bearing false witness".

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I am using the BIBLE. There is no numbering system in the Bible, such as;
Commandment #1, 2, 3... There is the list of Commandments found in the verses that are found in Exodus 20:3-17. No one is bearing false witness against you... Your attitude speaks for itself. The eighth Commandment is Thou shalt not steal. Maybe you should look up what you are referring to or be more clear (and humble would be nice too) before you start running off at the mouth.

Melethiel said:

I sometimes want to get it on just by looking at my man. Should I avoid looking at him until we're married? The issue here is knowing your own boundaries. Being aroused is not a sin in and of itself - otherwise I'm sinning simply by being at a certain time of my monthly cycle.

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If you're not married to him, he's not your man! You can't claim ownership of another human being unless, of course, it is your spouse. You're not married and therefore you can't call him "your man."

I didn't talk down to you. You just have a nasty little attitude.

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Contradiction right there. I guess we're in the same boat then - you seem bent on insulting me and have quite an attitude of your own. Here's a hint: if you're going to go about fulfilling your Scriptural mandate to teach the younger women, they might listen to you more if you're respectful.

I am using the BIBLE. There is no numbering system in the Bible, such as;
Commandment #1, 2, 3... There is the list of Commandments found in the verses that are found in Exodus 20:3-17. No one is bearing false witness against you... Your attitude speaks for itself. The eighth Commandment is Thou shalt not steal. Maybe you should look up what you are referring to or be more clear (and humble would be nice too) before you start running off at the mouth.

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Let's see...you said that:
1) I had never read the passage from James before
2) My only reason for doing so was to be a sarcastic, critical individual
3) That I can't take it when someone is doing something that...
4) I haven't been able to do because I'm too lustful
5) That I determine my lusts to determine what I will or will not follow from the word of God

All of those are false, therefore you are bearing false witness against me.

As for the numbering, I'm Lutheran. Since, as you said, the 10 Commandments are not explicitly numbered, there are several different methods of numbering them. In the Lutheran Catechism, the 8th Commandment is against bearing false witness.

I could certainly use to be more humble. So could you. I think it is your attitude that speaks for itself here - what are you so angry about?

If you're not married to him, he's not your man! You can't claim ownership of another human being unless, of course, it is your spouse. You're not married and therefore you can't call him "your man."

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1) Language barrier. I'm bilingual.
2) What do I call him then, "this guy I know"?

You seem quite bent on finding everything you can to criticize me about. Rather unusual considering you "don't know me from Adam's housecat". You haven't really responded to any of my arguments, just criticized.

I'm not here to teach you. Don't really want to, you're not my daughter and you're not teachable.

sing4777 said:

I'm not here to teach you. Don't really want to, you're not my daughter and you're not teachable.

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I'm not teachable? There you go, bearing false witness again. Don't blame the student for the issues of the teacher.

You're not here to teach me? That directly contradicts one of your earlier posts, but very well, I'm glad to hear it. See you.

I think that most of you have completely missed the point of this thread entirely. First of all, any of you that are encouraging this young man to disobey his parents in any way is not using the wisdom of the Lord and this is a Christian forum, is it not? The young woman that chooses to refrain from kissing until her wedding day should be commended, not debated, judged or made to feel she's on trial for wanting to remain pure in the eyes of God. The word is very explicit and you can spin it any way you want but the truth is this, kissing is a precursor to sex, period!!!!!!!!!!! The woman that posted and stated that she and her husband kissed before marriage, but wasn't aroused seems far more unrealistic than this young woman striving to stay pure before the eyes of God and for the man GOD HAS FOR HER. If a kiss determines whether he's "the one" or not then you are operating completely in the flesh and not by the Holy Spirit which can lead to many demises in your life and subsequent lives as well. It my humble opinion, personal convictions are just that, "personal convictions" and I in no way felt like this young woman was trying to be spiritually superior, but just trying to steer this young man in the desire to obey his parents, which I fully commend. It is appalling to me that people in a Christian forum would encourage him to NOT obey his parents for this one very simple reason: If you don't desire to obey your earthly father then chances are you aren't going to have a desire to obey your heavenly Father.

John 14:6 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

Agaaaaain, this was not quoted out of context.
Paul said, "Trials of VARIOUS kinds." It's most definitely a trial to maintain
sexual purity in your mind. It can be easy to maintain it physically, but
in your heart, it can be very difficult; and God looks on the heart.
Now, I'm not saying that God sends "trials." It's clearly stated by Paul in
verses 13-14 that He doesn't tempt us with any evil thing; but we're to
count it joy when we encounter temptation and overcome it because we
will be rewarded with "the crown of life."

Now the point I was making in quoting that verse is that when we dwell
on lustful thoughts (to be clear, I mean sexual lust), it causes use to
desire what we are lusting for (conceiving lust-- you can't see something
that has just been conceived); and when you continue in dwelling on
these lustful thoughts rather than casting them down and bringing them
into captivity to the obedience of Christ (2 Cor. 10:3-6), ultimately, you
can find yourself committing the sin you've been dwelling on.

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I think we're in agreement here. The only difference is what causes someone to get to the state where they are dwelling on lustful thoughts - and that's different for everyone. If kissing causes you to do that, then by all means, abstain from kissing. That's just not true for everyone.

Since everybody has felt the need to condemn my statement about "kissing him cemented for me that he was the one", perhaps I should clarify. It is NOT like I'd never known this guy, went to the bar, kissed him, and liked it so much I decided I loved him. It was closer to this: I'd know the guy for a while, we were close friends, and very emotionally and spiritually close. Kissing simply cemented that, showing that there was indeed physical compatibility (and I think science is on to something here - I study science, I don't condemn it like so many people blindly tend to do). Our relationship is NOT "operating completely by the flesh and leaving the Holy Spirit out of it".

Clearer?

The kid who started this topic hasn't even signed into this forum in five months. Just wanted to point that out.

sing4777 said:

What's with the angry smiley? I didn't say anything that should have you all wrung up. I think it's a tad sarcastic of you to try to determine a hormonal effect based on the comment that I made about becoming aroused when engaging in kissing (foreplay). You're not a doctor, nor do you have access to any type of medical information about my hormones or that of my husband, so your comment was uncalled for.

Are you saying that your husband wasn't aroused by your kissing before you got married and now that you're married, he is? The same kissing that would arouse him NOW, isn't the same kissing that didn't arouse him when you were dating????

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With all due respect....what?! It's called self-control. God created men to be sexual. God created men and women to have sex and be sexual, within the bonds of marriage. But that doesn't mean that a passionate kiss makes someone want to have sex. I know I never felt that way with my hubbe before we married, nor did he feel that way with me. And even if he did, so? He had the strength to control himself. The feelings he had were natural, given by God. All he had to do was control himself, and he did.

TEMPTATION does not mean you're sinning. Your actions dictate that. So, while many people could easily make out without being sexual in any way(me and my husband did before we married), maybe others can't. But that is strictly between them and God, and not for me to cast a judgement either way.

As for the OP, all I can say is(while I find the rules a bit....much) bravo to you for standing by your parents. I do understand what others have said about maturity, thought I'm not entirely sure I agree. What matters though is that you are obeying your parents, and obeying God. Good for you.

???
The Bible also tells the young to not let anyone despise them because of their youth and to be an example to all other believers. The only person who's attitude has spoken for itself is yours. You've continuously misread everything she posted, if not completely ignored it, and therefore have completely misunderstood her.

pleasehelp55 said:

I am 17 years old and still under my parents rules/guidelines for my relationship. I really really want to honor my parents wishes. That means no kissing for a very long time. My girlfriend and I both have very high sex drives though and it just makes it really hard. We have a very mature relationship and are very much in love. Its not a normal teenage relationship, she is in college and I homeschool myself... We love each other so much and express it through many other ways but we still have that extremely high desire to kiss.

I'm afraid I will slip up. Does anyone have some good advice on how to make it easier not to? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

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That's quite strict. I've never heard of a 17 year old man being controlled like a child like this. It seems the 60's, 70's, and even the 80's had more permissive rules for guys until the 00's when purity laws came down on some men like a ton of bricks.

Look man- I call you a man- you stopped being a child at 13. Soon your going to have to move out of your parents and succeed as an adult in your life. You have to make up your own mind if you want to kiss her or not. And read your bible- the original verses state to HONOR your father and mother. The bible does not say OBEY father and mother. Both in the english and in the hebrew the word honor- respect- give dignity to- is used. So the issue is not one of biblical obedience to parents as the bible does not teach this in the ten commandments, instead the bible teaches biblical respect and honor. As an adult man you will have to make up your own life choices. In doing so HONOR your mother and father even if as an adult they try to control you as if you were still a child.

Read the old testament laws in sexuality. Now read the new testament on grace. Now for some theology for you.

That which breaks the law is sin. Grace gives us the strength to live under the Christ and not under the law. Jesus came NOT to give us a new law so the new testament is not a new law unto us. The new testament is about grace and not lawlessness, but godliness.

Okay, if you read the old testament and the law like I asked you two paragraphs ago you would find out some surprising things: there's no law against an unmarried man and woman kissing. In fact if by chance you break up with her and meet another woman in the future and marry her , not only will she probably not care that you kissed this woman but if she comes on to these boards and talks about her discomfort about being with a man who had 'kissing' experience the other posters would probably tell her to 'get over it' and 'forgive' you. Lighten up on yourself and focus on the important things:

Moving out of your house, volunteering, service to the greater community, starting your career, getting a car, getting the university education/certification you need for your career. If kissing happens it happens but don't obsess over it.

If you can make your own decision about whether to kiss your girlfriend, you are not an adult. You are right you are not a normal 17 year old, you have created business and made money, yet your parents run your love life. What about your girlfriend how does she feel about it, doesn't she get a say it it? The commandment is honour your mother and father, not obey them. If I obeyed my parents aged 17, I wouldn't have gone to to church when I did.

LilyLayola said:

If you can make your own decision about whether to kiss your girlfriend, you are not an adult. You are right you are not a normal 17 year old, you have created business and made money, yet your parents run your love life. What about your girlfriend how does she feel about it, doesn't she get a say it it? The commandment is honour your mother and father, not obey them. If I obeyed my parents aged 17, I wouldn't have gone to to church when I did.

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Exactly. The OP's parents are too much involved in this adults personal life and they are interfering with your normal development. By now you should be making choices and living with the consequences with them. Even if you live under your parents roof at 17 you- like almost every teenager I know except for a few unfortunate over-controlled teens- should decide for themselves what sexual morality they are going to practice.

lifetheuniverse said:

In fact if by chance you break up with her and meet another woman in the future and marry her , not only will she probably not care that you kissed this woman but if she comes on to these boards and talks about her discomfort about being with a man who had 'kissing' experience the other posters would probably tell her to 'get over it' and 'forgive' you. Lighten up on yourself and focus on the important things:

Moving out of your house, volunteering, service to the greater community, starting your career, getting a car, getting the university education/certification you need for your career. If kissing happens it happens but don't obsess over it.

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I'm going to tell you a true story.

There was a man that was set up with a girl that went to his church.
This man was a virgin and this girl had already had a baby outside of
marriage, but the man was willing to over look this.
The relationship grew to the point where the man had kissed this girl, but
nothing more. He decided he wanted to propose to the girl.
The relationship ended before he could propose.

A few months later, he met another woman. She had a 4 year old child
from a previous marriage, but he was willing to over look this (again).
He fell in love with the woman and within 3 months of dating, they were
married. He saved his virginity until their wedding night.

About a year after the man and woman were married, the girl that
the man had dated previously, married his wife's brother.
This girl has caused problems in the family for 16 years. Early on, she
tried to reminisce with the man in front of his wife, she tried giving the
man's wife a picture of him with her baby daughter from when they had
dated, the girl told the wife that she would have had sex with the man
if her mother hadn't walked in, and later on, she told the man's wife
that she had a dream about him consoling her... the list goes on to things
that would make your head spin.

Despite this girl, the woman has maintained her marriage for 16 years.
But, not without the knowledge that her husband nearly married this girl
that has caused so much trouble and has had their previous relationship
forced in her face.

Now, could this girl have caused these probems if the man hadn't kissed her?
Not very likely.

Don't make light of giving any part of yourself away (even something
SEEMINGLY as small as kissing). There are consequences to every action
and it can affect your future and the future of your spouse.

LilyLayola said:

The commandment is honour your mother and father, not obey them. If I obeyed my parents aged 17, I wouldn't have gone to to church when I did.

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Ephesians 6:1,
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right."


Colossians 3:20,
"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord."

The main part of the problem was not that they had kissed, it is that the girl married into the family anyway... don't take things out of context of stories!

HisLittleHazelnut said:

The main part of the problem was not that they had kissed, it is that the girl married into the family anyway... don't take things out of context of stories!

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Ok, my mom (who is the "woman/wife" in the story), said that she could've gotten over it if they hadn't kissed.
*Throws her hands up* Just sayin'...