how the american left is incompatible with constitutional liberty

[praying]

...uhm you do know when it was originally written the "...under God" wasn't in it, right? That was added years later.
tulc(just a fact the should be pointed out for truths sake)

tulc haven't I told you before, do not muddy the waters with facts, it gets confusing.

 

[tulc]

Ahhh! Got it before you could delete it!
tulc(too quick for any mod!)

 

[praying]

Wow. Way to make sure people read your post sis!
tulc(should find a mod hat and use it to make a point!)

bad tulc bad tulc


That was an inadvertent mod hat.

Sorry Steezie wasn't trying to pick on you.

 

[praying]

Ahhh! Got it before you could delete it!
tulc(too quick for any mod!)

 

[Suomipoika]

I think you have very little to worry about. In the US, at least, organized protesting is atypical of conservatives. However philanthropy philanthropy is not.

I am and have been very aware that the kind of organized protesting of the "working class masses" style is very uncommon among conservatives, but by "militant aggressive protesting" I referred to the kind of political language as used in the OP, viewing it as a "desperate, aggressive-toned battle cry to claim back a (supposedly once?) Christian nation".

The context of the Christians living in pre-Constantine Rome was very different from that of the Christians in the U.S. at any point of its existence. The Christians in the pre-Constantine Rome certainly did not feel a burden of having to "claim their country back to God" through political channels. Just imagine re-wording Romans 13, replacing all references to "authorities" in that letter by Paul with "Hillary Clinton". Well, they did not have Hillbilly on the reins, they had emperor Nero. A man who, only for starters, destroyed Jerusalem, executed Apostle Paul and his own mother. And yet the ways in which the Church attempted to have an impact (which they sure did have) in the midst of all these atrocities were so completely different from the ways of the militant political confrontation spirit as demonstrated by the OP. It just seems that Christians of that time considered themselves as a group in such completely different terms in relation to the society around them from the 'patriotic' Christians in today's nations that it makes drawing comparisons pretty complex, but nevertheless very interesting.

That's MR. commie to you!
tulc(just a suggestion)

Wouldn't the guy in my avatar pic go for a perfect 'commie'? (just look at that 'Karl Marx beard'!)

 

[LonesomeTexan]

Because its the Christian teachers who seem to be the most driven in terms of pushing thier beliefs in the classroom

In the US, you have the right to believe whatever you want. You may not PRACTICE whatever you want. You can practice as long as it does not infringe uppon the rights of others. Your rights stop at my nose.

Your paranoid ranting is unfounded. Material presented in the classroom is required to be impartial and since Christians are not responsible for all the world's atrocities, that cant be presented. But things like The Crusades and Medieval Europe HAVE to be covered as part of a comprehensive curriculum.

Christmas is not a paid holiday specifically nor is it a national holiday. Many places of business give time off around Christmas time for employees to spend time with thier families but Christmas is not a national holiday.

oh but it's okay for atheists to tell me that God doesn't exist and that I'm ignorant for believing in the Lord? it's only a violation of rights when Christians push their views in the classroom? What a joke. if your beliefs are so pathetic that you can't tolerate opposing view points, you probably shouldn't be going to school anyway. there's a double standard being played out in American class rooms everyday. atheists go unchecked bringing their agendas into the class room while Christian view points are silenced. That is fascism folks. I live it.

 

[jgarden]

Red blooded American patriots, please read the constitution. It's pretty clear on the enumerated powers given to the federal government and how the American left is pushing to take away the very freedoms this country was founded upon, turning American into a fascist socialist state.

Human caused global warming is a hoax created by econuts and business men like Al Gore who saw climate change as an opportunity to profit. Kyoto treaties and carbon reduction legislation is a threat to democracy, liberty, and our national sovereignty.

Abortionists that support Roe V. Wade would be horrified if the matter was turned back into the states. They know without federal protection of a gross misinterpretation of the 4th amendment, some states would out right ban it and others would limit abortions to 12 weeks (like most civilized countries around the world). Planned parenthood death advocates in congress love to profit off of killing our babies in the womb. They'd lose money and Lord knows profits for baby killing is the only thing that matters.

"Congress (the federal government) shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Sound familiar? It's our freedom of religion as stated in the Constitution. I don't see the "seperation of church and state" anywhere. It's a total non sense premise. When the federal government limits state and local governments free exercise of religion, it's a violation of our rights. Seperation of church and state a direct attack on federalism, religious freedom, and individual liberty.

Anti war code pink lunatics should really go to Iraq to see just how much the soldiers fighting over there don't appreciate their efforts. They are traiter for attempting to undermine the morale of troops overseas and the war effort. You don't have to like the war, but as a citizen of the united states you should support our brave men and women fighting over seas for your liberty.

Anti death penalty lobbyists would like nothing more than to get the federal government involved with a matter that belongs to the states. Liberals are just anti federalism I guess, because they know that without the federal government getting involved, they'd never be able to do away with the death penalty.

Gay rights/marriage advocates would love to see the federal government get involved with this issue as well. Guess what though? It's a state matter. I have no problem with gays getting married in Mass and Cali. I encourage people who don't like it to move to more conservative states and let the liberals wallow in their own mudpits that leftism and unGodly practices naturally bring.

Gun control leftists would like nothing better than to take away guns from the very citizens that would rebel against them when they pushed their agenda on us. The day they come after my guns is the day I will die in the name of my God given liberty.

Contraceptives in school advocates would like nothing more than to profit on the sale of contraceptives to public schools. Not with my tax dollars though. It's a state's right issue. Get out of washington with your morally void causes leftists.

I'll be the first one to say that we can't run a government without taxes. That being said, social security, medicare/medicaid, and welfare are all threats to my liberty. I should be able to do as I please with the money I earn. Not the case however. The federal government mandates that I pay into a scheme I want no part of. I'd opt out in a heart beat, but they wont let me and it ticks me off. It ticks me off that my hard earned dollars are going to a crack addict mom that squirts out more babies so she can see more of my money. I am not your nanny and the government shouldn't use my tax dollars to promote a nanny state.

Have you been to a college campus lately? Liberal control on academia and fascist tactics used by the leftists to silence Christian/conservative view points is astounding. Political correctness fluff is total crap. People have the right to be offended and I have the right to speak my mind about liberals, leftists, socialists, communists, baby killers, and other threats to my liberty. I'm outraged by this. I believe in freedom, liberty, the constitution, and God. Liberalism is a direct threat to everything I hold dear. Wake up America.

The New Sons of Liberty
Justin

************************************************************************************

Those Who Hate "Liberals" Really Hate a Freedom - by Harvey Wasserman

The rightist "conservative" media moguls who hate "liberals" actually hate a free America ...........

But right from its birth, America has been the very definition of a liberal nation.

Today's Foxist ditto-heads would have hated all America's founders: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Paine, and even the father of the modern corporate state, Alexander Hamilton.

All were liberals, both classic and modern. The documents they wrote---the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights---all were the definition of liberal.

..........Then there's Tom Jefferson: brilliant, learned, master architect, ultimate phrase turner, Lockean liberal. Nobody stoked the leftist rhetoric of revolution and democracy, equality and progress better than Jefferson.

.......... Then U.S. Grant, who established Yellowstone Park, and Teddy Roosevelt who fought for so many more like it. Wimps! Greenies!! Bleeding hearts!!! Eco-Terrorists!!!!

The word "Christian" does not appear in the Constitution ........... Most of the founders were Deists. They believed a divine being set this world in motion and then set the laws of nature free to work their magic.

Most of all the Founding Fathers hated---UNANIMOUSLY---the idea of an official church, or a bunch of self- appointed bigots telling everyone else what to believe.

But it was precisely that diversity the Founding Fathers wrote the Bill of Rights protect.

In short, they were LIBERALS. And the nation they so successfully spawned has always been just that--- LIBERAL.

So when we hear extremists like Limbaugh and Coulter, Hannity and O'Reilly howling away, we know it's not just liberals they hate. It's the free, diverse, tolerant nation the Founding Fathers created. The one whose liberal Bill of Rights lets even Foxist America-haters make oxy-morons of themselves all day, everyday.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0601-01.htm

If you support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights you support the Founding Fathers.

If you support them, you are supporting the enlighted, liberal thinking of the day.

You can't have it both ways - in the 18thC, American conservatives would have supported the recognized British colonial authorities representing King George.

 

[LonesomeTexan]

************************************************************************************

If you support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights you support the Founding Fathers.

If you support them, you are supporting the enlighted, liberal thinking of the day.

You can't have it both ways - in the 18thC, American conservatives would have supported the recognized British colonial authorities representing King George.[/b]

semantics. the American left (liberal/conservative/whatever u want to call them) is a direct threat to the liberty brave patriots fought so hard for.

 

[Ringo84]

oh but it's okay for atheists to tell me that God doesn't exist and that I'm ignorant for believing in the Lord?

I think you should practice what you preach, Lonseome:

if your beliefs are so pathetic that you can't tolerate opposing view points, you probably shouldn't be going to school anyway.

there's a double standard being played out in American class rooms everyday. atheists go unchecked bringing their agendas into the class room while Christian view points are silenced. That is fascism folks. I live it.

It's not happening, Lonesome. You're long on many assertions about "silencing Christians", and you're very short on actually proving your viewpoints to in fact be true.

Prove or retract.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

the American left (liberal/conservative/whatever u want to call them) is a direct threat to the liberty brave patriots fought so hard for.

Then prove it!
Ringo

 

[tulc]

semantics. the American left (liberal/conservative/whatever u want to call them) is a direct threat to the liberty brave patriots fought so hard for.

Really? How do you figure that?
tulc(still curious)

 

[LonesomeTexan]

see the OP and tell me how the liberal agenda is not a threat to individual liberty.

 

[Voegelin]

Justice Janice Rogers Brown summed up pretty well what has happened in this speech to the Federalist Society:

"Socialism concentrated all the wealth in the hands of an oligarchy in the name of social justice, reduced peoples to misery in the name of shared resources, to ignorance in the name of science. It created the modern world's most inegalitarian societies in the name of equality, the most vast network of concentration camps ever built for the defense of liberty.

Revel warns: "The totalitarian mind can reappear in some new and unexpected and seemingly innocuous and indeed virtuous form. It ... will [probably] put itself forward under the cover of a generous doctrine, humanitarian, inspired by a concern for giving the disadvantaged their fair share, against corruption, and pollution, and 'exclusion.'"

Of course, given the vision of the American Revolution just outlined, you might think none of that can happen here. I have news for you. It already has. The revolution is over. What started in the 1920's; became manifest in 1937; was consolidated in the 1960's; is now either building to a crescendo or getting ready to end with a whimper.

At this moment, it seems likely leviathan will continue to lumber along, picking up ballast and momentum, crushing everything in its path. Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates, and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible . . .

Source: A Whiter Shade of Pale": Sense and Nonsense —
The Pursuit of Perfection in Law and Politics

But before Brown, there was Saturday Evening Post editor Garet Garrett who wrote in 1938:

There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom.

There are those who have never ceased to say very earnestly, "Something is going to happen to the American form of government if we don't watch out." These were the innocent disarmers. Their trust was in words. They had forgotten their Aristotle. More than 2,000 years ago he wrote of what can happen within the form, when "one thing takes the place of another, so that the ancient laws will remain, while the power will be in the hands of those who have brought about revolution in the state."

Worse outwitted were those who kept trying to make sense of the New Deal from the point of view of all that was implicit in the American scheme, charging it therefore with contradiction, fallacy, economic ignorance, and general incompetence to govern.

But it could not be so embarrassed and all that line was wasted, because, in the first place, it never intended to make that kind of sense, and secondly, it took off from nothing that was implicit in the American scheme. It took off from a revolutionary base. The design was European . . .

Until it was too late few understood one like Julius C. Smith, of the American Bar Association, saying: "Is there any labor leader, any businessman, any lawyer or any other citizen of America so blind that he cannot see that this country is drifting at an accelerated pace into administrative absolutism similar to that which prevailed in the governments of antiquity, the governments of the Middle Ages, and in the great totalitarian governments of today? Make no mistake about it. Even as Mussolini and Hitler rose to absolute power under the forms of law... so may administrative absolutism be fastened upon this country within the Constitution and within the forms of law."
. . .

Source: The Revolution Was


But here we are. In a Zero Tolerance, Affirmative Action, Welfare state. In a state in which the state may, since Kelo, take you home and sell it to someone who will pay more in taxes than you. In a state where the media tells us tax cuts "cost" money. In a state where unionized government bureaucrats outnumber unionized workers in the private sector. There is no going back.

 

[jgarden]

semantics. the American left (liberal/conservative/whatever u want to call them) is a direct threat to the liberty brave patriots fought so hard for.

Those "liberty brave patriots" were fighting for freedom/democracy/equality which are all liberal principles.

 

[LonesomeTexan]

Those "liberty brave patriots" were fighting for freedom/democracy/equality which are all liberal principles.

and modern liberalism is the direct opposite of liberty, self government, and federalism. stop sucking the breast of government entitlement and start defending liberty.

 

[Steezie]

Yes it is the gvoernment is closed, that makes it a national holiday.

I stand corrected.

However I dont think that the idea of Christmas is the same as it was when it was established as a federal holiday

 

[tulc]

see the OP and tell me how the liberal agenda is not a threat to individual liberty.

Your OP is a string of opinions, that doesn't prove anything. For instance: I think dark roast coffee is better then light roast, therefore anyone who doesn't like dark roast is wrong and hates freedom. Opinions are like noses, everyone has one. But they aren't proof. See my point? You think Liberals are bad? Then please show why they are bad.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[Grizzly]

and modern liberalism is the direct opposite of liberty, self government, and federalism. stop sucking the breast of government entitlement and start defending liberty.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

1) do you think gay people should have the same rights as straight people?

2) Do you think that recreational drugs should be made legal?

3) Are you for or against the death penalty?

4) Do you believe a women has the right to terminate a pregnancy?

5) Are you in favor of warentless wire taps being allowed by the federal government?

6) Should I be allowed to protest by burning an American flag?

I'm just curious about what you mean by liberty.

 

[tulc]

and modern liberalism is the direct opposite of liberty, self government, and federalism. stop sucking the breast of government entitlement and start defending liberty.

Your opinion. We get that you don't like Liberals, care to show how we (the people on CF) "suck the government breast"?
tulc(still looking for a fact)

 

[Steezie]

oh but it's okay for atheists to tell me that God doesn't exist and that I'm ignorant for believing in the Lord?

Just as its ok to express your religious views, its the venue and presentation that cause problems.

it's only a violation of rights when Christians push their views in
the classroom?

Actually its a violation of rights for either Christians OR Atheists to push their views in the classroom. If they are presented only as sides to a particular issue, there is no problem. But if one side or the other is presented as The Right side and the other as The Wrong side then you have issues

if your beliefs are so pathetic that you can't tolerate opposing view points, you probably shouldn't be going to school anyway.

The irony here is just...incredible.

Would you be ok with the viewpoints of my religion being presented in the classroom? Or Mormonism? Or Hinduism? Or Taoism? And you cant say they already are.

there's a double standard being played out in American class rooms everyday. atheists go unchecked bringing their agendas into the class room while Christian view points are silenced. That is fascism folks. I live it.

Oh please, spare me this victim crap. You are not a victim of persecution or Fascism.

I dont get this, you keep see-sawing back and forth between "This country is Fascist!" and "This is a great and free country!" PICK ONE!