How tall were the Nephilim

atGeki

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Also it's inaccurate to use Jesus as your example as angels. The Bible doesn't state they transformed. Aside from the type in Isaiah and Revelations Angels don't have wings and look like men aside from the genitalia. Jesus was born as a man and His soul was already the breath of God because he is the Word of God.
 
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pshun2404

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Should I wait for the responses to the 3 & 4?
If we are to believe that the genesis text referring to Sons of God it would be the only text. No other time does an angel call his Son, Sons. My 3rd point was to validate that the Nephilim were very tall humans and the term used for giants is used both before and after the flood. So did angels come down again after the flood? No. The text makes more sense spiritual and rationally that they were the seed of Seth, a holy line. That holy line had descendants who saw the line of Cain as desirable and began to reproduce. Angels/Demons are spiritual being. Are we to believe that these spiritual demons laid with mankind, God's creation and God allowed it? I don't believe so. In against its completely acceptable to call Seth's seed the Sons of God as God references Jesus as the second or last Adam. In addition to that Man became a living soul having the breath of God in him. Man is the only created being with a soul (breath of God).

Do not wait! These were more exegetic. Eisegesis (reading into the text things it does not say) is unsound hermeneutics. The term Nephilim comes from an ancient cognate root meaning "fallen" which could imply angels of humans (but see Jude 1:6).

2 Peter 2:4-5 says "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly" The semi colon between 4 and 5 implies this is all referring to the same event (the angels sin and the flood)...

Genesis 6:4 says "4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

So the exegetical problem is that the reference to giants may be referring to a time period or just a subspecies of Human, after which the sons of God came in and so on...we just do not KNOW. I am fine with the "sons of Seth" theory but that is all it is.

And you say "No other time does an angel call his Son, Sons." when in fact nothing tells us this was being said, or they were being called sons, by some "angel". The passage more likely comes from the book of the generations of Noah or the book of the generations of Adam that Moses used in compiling Genesis 1-11...

"Angels/Demons are spiritual being. Are we to believe that these spiritual demons laid with mankind, God's creation and God allowed it?"

No, if the angel theory is correct these would be in the flesh angels. They are corporeal when manifest (appearing in human form), plus:

a) some orders of angels have free will (like Satan and his rebellious cohorts), and
b) because it was God's will that they would have free will, it was not a matter of whether God allowed it (thus this is a form of the old notion "if God was really loving why would he allow war, or poverty, or disease", etc.). One could equally ask why would God allow mankind (His creation) to become so perverse and corrupt?

When God gave man "dominion" over the things on the earth, we as free will beings gave the legal authority (by submitting to and following the Serpent's lead) to Belial (Satan, who is now the god of this world). To not let man go through the consequences of his choice (Genesis 3:5...to be a god unto himself, deciding good and evil as he saw as right in his own eyes) would be God being unfaithful to His own word of promise. God is not a man that He should lie.

(Then the Devil led Him up and showed Him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And the Devil said to Him, "To You I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please) Luke 4:5-6

There are three "theories", the third being the magistrate or King/Son theory which shows from history and archaeology that after the alleged Babel events the kings or magistrates having authority over life and death were thought of as sons of, or manifestations of, the gods. I do not allow myself to be dogmatic as to which one is correct. The Lord (blessed be His name) simply has not given us enough information here to be sure, and that is probably because it really is not important to our salvation or to His plan of redemption.

Please note...No one before Augustine (450 years after the Christ events) ever even mentioned the "sons of Seth" position...just saying...since the earliest fathers did not hold this view (who were taught by the Apostles as to what these things mean, or were taught by their immediate disciples) it is likely that this was NOT what was taught to or by the Apostles.

Finally, the Dead Sea scrolls, the Targums, Philo, and Josephus, all hold the meaning to imply the fallen angel theory...so we each of us as brothers and sisters must go with what keeps our conscience clean before God not dividing the unity of the Spirit. When He comes again (the Parousia) we will KNOW even as we are known. Until then, be blessed and may the grace and peace of God be with us all.
 
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atGeki

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Again by passing point #3 again, Nephilim is used both before and after the flood. It is impossible for them to be half angel and human after the flood when only 8 souls survived. Even if you use Fallen it could easily be stating their spiritual status as no longer being of a holy seed. In any case the term is used again after the flood. Do you believe angels came down again? Also genitalia is for reproduction, angels don't have a soul nor do they have a seed nor a need to reproduce
 
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pshun2404

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Again by passing point #3 again, Nephilim is used both before and after the flood. It is impossible for them to be half angel and human after the flood when only 8 souls survived. Even if you use Fallen it could easily be stating their spiritual status as no longer being of a holy seed. In any case the term is used again after the flood. Do you believe angels came down again? Also genitalia is for reproduction, angels don't have a soul nor do they have a seed nor a need to reproduce

AGAIN as I said, points 3 and 4 were more exegetic and therefore I had no problem with them. The frightened 10 spies in Numbers may have simply used that term to describe the Anakim (who were really tall)...the term may have later became associated with height but even in Ezekiel it more applies to being fallen. Then another option has been suggested by some and that is that the wives of Noah's sons being daughters of Adam (translated as "men") may have had the genes in them (some offspring would get them and others would not).

Angels are souls (they are each a spirit-being) so if you can show me where scripture says something like "Angels do not have souls" I would be glad to look at it and comment. Thanks...
 
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Petros2015

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herefore, the text actually says that these giants were 4,500 feet tall. Many supporters of the extreme figures argue this is a textual error and the verse should read 300 ells, or 450 feet.

 
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pshun2404

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So now your theory is that demons got with humans and that their dna is in the line of Noah and came out later? I think we're done here and will just have to disagree.

Not my theory...I do not have one. I do believe it is an equal plausibility though. And yes by all means we can agree to disagree. Be at peace and keep up the good work in Christ.
 
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Numbers 13:33
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

Do you think that is metaphorically speaking or do you think the Nephilim were actually that tall, meaning probably hundreds of feet tall if you compare yourself to a grasshopper... I was glancing through a few crazy documentaries on youtube today, and one of them was saying the mount called the Devil's tower actually is the remnance of a Nephilim's foot ??? I was like ok, that person must be on crack or something, then that verse came up. Hmm... What do you think, were the Nephilim as tall as they make them to be?
The spy's report was false and they were later eliminated ..despite hopeful theories, nephilim dna ended at the flood...a female could not have continued the DNA.
 
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JacksBratt

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The spy's report was false and they were later eliminated ..despite hopeful theories, nephilim dna ended at the flood...a female could not have continued the DNA.
The spies report was not false...

God was angry because the Hebrews, after seeing all the wonders God did to get them out of Egypt... doubted Him... They had no faith..

Those giants were still there when Joshua showed up 40 years later.. But.. God defeated them.
 
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The spies report was not false...

God was angry because the Hebrews, after seeing all the wonders God did to get them out of Egypt... doubted Him... They had no faith..

Those giants were still there when Joshua showed up 40 years later.. But.. God defeated them.
Yes they were unappreciative..as to their aversion to going to a promised land, I honestly don't quite understand ..but it's recorded that the spies were killed for a false report ..and again, as to logic it's impossible that nephilim DNA continued..if it did, the flood account is incorrect.
 
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johneb

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Again by passing point #3 again, Nephilim is used both before and after the flood. It is impossible for them to be half angel and human after the flood when only 8 souls survived. Even if you use Fallen it could easily be stating their spiritual status as no longer being of a holy seed. In any case the term is used again after the flood. Do you believe angels came down again? Also genitalia is for reproduction, angels don't have a soul nor do they have a seed nor a need to reproduce
So if Noah and his son's DNA was not corrupt what about their wifes?
 
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JacksBratt

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So if Noah and his son's DNA was not corrupt what about their wifes?
Actually, I believe that Noah and his sons DNA was pure... It was the wives that had the corrupted DNA.

For kicks and giggles, check this out:


 
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JacksBratt

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Nephilim were hybrid and so couldn't reproduce ..unless there were also female nephilim
Is there a reason that you believe that there could not be females? Or, as with the Ligar and Tigon... only the Ligar has the size limitation turned off while the Tigon doesn't keep growing..

Maybe the male offspring from the angel/human copulation were giants.
 
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JackRT

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Referring back to the OP on how tall the Nephalim were:

There are physical limitations to the size a human can grow to. The first such is known as the square-cube law. If a human were to be expanded to, say, three times his size while maintaining his same proportions he would not be three times heavier he would be three cubed or twenty seven times heavier. However, bone strength increases as the square of bone diameter so this hypothetical giant’s bone strength would not be three times greater, it would be three squared or nine times greater. This means that compared to a normal human being our hypothetical giant’s bones would be under three times as much strain. In other words such a giant would have difficulty supporting his own weight without his bones collapsing under him. To illustrate, if a six foot tall man weighing 200 pounds were to be magnified three times, he would be eighteen feet tall and weigh 5400 pounds while his bone strength would only have increased enough to support 1800 pounds. Large creatures in the animal kingdom can compensate for this by having a much more massive bone structure to carry the weight. Think here of animals like the elephant, the rhinocerus and the hippo.. Some animals can also compensate by spending a lot of time being bouyed in an aquatic environment. Whales are the largest creatures to have ever lived and they must spend their entire lives in water. In the event of beaching they eventually die of asphixiation because they lack the strength to work their own lungs without the support of water. Some humans suffering from genetic gigantism have grown as tall as 9 feet. Such individuals have mostly been “bean poles”. Almost all of them have been extremely frail and clumsy. The clumsyness arises from the speed with which nerve impulses can travel from brain to muscle. In modern times the largest in proportion human being was Angus MacAskill who stood 7’9” tall and was 425 pounds. He seems to represent an upper limit to “normal” human giants.
 
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JacksBratt

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Referring back to the OP on how tall the Nephalim were:

There are physical limitations to the size a human can grow to. The first such is known as the square-cube law. If a human were to be expanded to, say, three times his size while maintaining his same proportions he would not be three times heavier he would be three cubed or twenty seven times heavier. However, bone strength increases as the square of bone diameter so this hypothetical giant’s bone strength would not be three times greater, it would be three squared or nine times greater. This means that compared to a normal human being our hypothetical giant’s bones would be under three times as much strain. In other words such a giant would have difficulty supporting his own weight without his bones collapsing under him.

An interesting fact, to maybe give a solution here... The "Star Child" skull (google it) was cut and samples were taken for testing...

Interestingly enough it was found to be composed of something like tooth enamel. It was very hard and very strong for it's weight.. It also had strands of fiber throughout.. Can't remember what they determined the strands to be.. However, the little skull was very different to the skulls we have. Hard, strong and light.

To say that the giants were genetically like us as far as bone material.. but just much bigger.. may be an error.



To illustrate, if a six foot tall man weighing 200 pounds were to be magnified three times, he would be eighteen feet tall and weigh 5400 pounds while his bone strength would only have increased enough to support 1800 pounds. Large creatures in the animal kingdom can compensate for this by having a much more massive bone structure to carry the weight.

How did these creatures "compensate"? I mean it sounds like they had some sort of control over it..

However, you don't afford the same luxury to the Nephilime?

Think here of animals like the elephant, the rhinocerus and the hippo.. Some animals can also compensate by spending a lot of time being bouyed in an aquatic environment. Whales are the largest creatures to have ever lived and they must spend their entire lives in water. In the event of beaching they eventually die of asphixiation because they lack the strength to work their own lungs without the support of water. Some humans suffering from genetic gigantism have grown as tall as 9 feet. Such individuals have mostly been “bean poles”. Almost all of them have been extremely frail and clumsy.

Exactly. Humans who suffer from "acromegaly" and are not healthy. Nephilime did not have acromegaly. Nor did Goliath.. That is a common error.


The clumsyness arises from the speed with which nerve impulses can travel from brain to muscle. In modern times the largest in proportion human being was Angus MacAskill who stood 7’9” tall and was 425 pounds. He seems to represent an upper limit to “normal” human giants.

It is incorrect to assume that all things that grow large.. have a disease, are going to suffer from what a normal human with human genetics would suffer from or to place them under the same physical standards as a normal human with normal bone material and structure..

They were angel/human hybrids... we don't have the corpse to investigate... Nothing in off the table.
 
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mmksparbud

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I know fallen angels had sexual intercourse with women who in turn gave birth to Nephilim but don't know if the Nephilim themselves had sexual intercourse themselves. Good point though.


No---you do not "know" that. It is what you choose to believe. The name means "fallen ones--which does not mean angels. It originally meant mean of renown. men of importance. Men of God having religious authority that chose women who did not believe in God. God has always hated that His people would be joined with unbelievers. The Targums plainly show that is the common believe of the Jews and they should know---it's their language and the word was given to them.

"VI. And Noach was a son of five hundred years, and Noach begat Shem, Cham, and Japheth. And it was when the sons of men had begun to multiply upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of the mighty[32] saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, and took to them wives of all whom they pleased.[33] And the Lord said, This evil generation shall not stand before me for ever, because they are flesh, and their works are evil. A term (or length) will I give them, an hundred and twenty years, if they may be converted. Giants were in the earth in those days; and also when, after that the sons of the mighty had gone in unto the daughters of men, there were born from them giants who from of old were men of name."
Pgs. 35-47
Ch. 1-6
THE TARGUM OF ONKELOS

There is also no mention in the scriptures of how tall Adam and Eve were. This passage merely says that "there were giants in those days" Adam and Eve were created perfect, nothing says they were 5-6 feet tall---they could have been much taller, and the children of tall people are usually even taller than them. It ridiculous to think that a giant of the size that Enoch and these people with their videos claim to have been birthed by women--- even an elephant has a 200 lb baby. The smallest baby to parent ratio is the Panda--and the kangaroo. A giant the size these people claim to have ben born to a human would have still produced a child at least 200 lbs---talk to any obstetrician---can't be carried by any woman. Even a little person can not carry a normal sized baby most of the time---they have to have a C-section and are considered a high risk pregnancy.
Jesus plainly said the angels do not marry---that means no sex. They are only mentioned as having male names. You honestly believe God makes angels with human reproductive systems (they are not human, we are created lower than the angels) but then gives them no females to reproduce with? They are messengers of God, that is what their name means. Nowhere does it say they can reproduce and Jesus says no sex. So NO! The Nephilim are not children of fallen angels. Humans can not have children with apes and they're the closes to us (according to evolutionists, that is) We are as far apart from angels as apes are to us. God says "after their kind." Angels are not our kind.
 
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johneb

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I'd assume their physiology was more like insect biology ..also a reason there's no skeletal evidence of them
The Smithsonian collected many remains of large human remains and destroyed them because these remains did not fit the narrative.
 
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