How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Cabal]

Jesus Christ says that He was the alpha,and the omega,and He is,and I will expand on that in due time,but Caesar was just a general,and a Caesar like many before him and since.

Nope, you're not telling the full story - those writing about Jesus claimed he was a god, just like the Julius Caesar fans did. There's much better evidence for Caesar than Christ, yet we do not worship Caesar. Again - consistency, across similar situations.

Jesus Christ has transformed life on earth like no one before Him or since. Without his coming to earth[for me,too much is made of the sacrifice
He made for he did it willingly,and thegod in him knew that death was just a
temporary moment ,but the man feared it ,as we all do.
He went down into Hell to release those imprisoned for their terrible sins ,the
greatest being denying God's existence,and he showed masses of generations how to build a new self in order that there would be enough collective loving ,purified,energy to prepare for the time when Uranus
would be 'seen' [not discovered] and release it's God created energy to
allow scientific advancement to begin. The universe unfolds according to God's ordained plan. Nothing happens without His designation,we simply react either in the positive or negative way to the energies within the plan.

That's nice. This is all contigent of course on the resurrection having actually occurred, and seeing as we do not treat Caesar as a god....

 

[underheaven]

Utter guff. It's a strawman, and it's seriously tiresome.

Yeah, I'm just an atheist because at best I'll have 80 years of life with no supernatural help followed by the cold embrace of the grave, that sounds like an absolute lol.

But yeah, you Christians, you are so all about doing the right thing, right? I mean, you get a deity holding your hand through life and then eternal life in a handpicked house in a bejewelled city, where there is no pain or suffering or sadness. Yes, you just follow God because it's the right thing to do, and not a massive carrot-on-a-stick at all!

And control over the material universe? Are you kidding me? And "faith that can move mountains" is WHAT, exactly?

Well is that not what R Dawkins et al think No ?
And where did you get that about,no suffering or sadness ?

I have a confession to make.I have never read revelations.It was
not encouraged within the C Church which I left in my twenties to pursue
a pretty agnostic path,wich caused me alot of unhappiness for many years,
but I did study other cultures religions etc and am an expert
in 'astronomical correspondance' with events on the earth.
You are the first to know of the new term for what is often called astrology ,
but is really a lot of old cobblers since it has nothing to do with astronomy and
with the zodiac signs.
You have heard of the expression '' and the truth will set you free''.
And it did ,and led me back to happiness,and Christ ,my Saviour.

 

[Delphiki]

No, it's more to do with the reality factor, plus a love of oneself and the people ,you have loved.

I hope you're not insinuating that the non-religious don't love themselves, others, or the familiar deceased.

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Well is that not what R Dawkins et all think?

Parts of the universe maybe. I wasn't aware any prominent atheists think that they control the world. (or will at some point)

Andwhere did you get that about,no suffering or sadness.

Heaven, for eternity. Any suffering in this life is infinitely outweighed.

I have a confession to make.I have never read revelations.It was not encouraged within the C Church which I left in my twenties to pursue
a pretty agnostic path,wich caused me alot of unhappiness for many years,butI did study other cultures religions etc and am an expert
in 'astronomical correspondance' with events on the earth.
You are the first to know of the new term for what is often called astrology ,but is really alot of old cobblers since it has nothing to do
with the zodiac signs.
You have heard of the expression '' and the truth will set you free''.
And it did ,and led me back to happiness,and Christ ,my Saviour.

That's nice.

 

[underheaven]

Nope, you're not telling the full story - those writing about Jesus claimed he was a god, just like the Julius Caesar fans did. There's much better evidence for Caesar than Christ, yet we do not worship Caesar. Again - consistency, across similar situations.



That's nice. This is all contigent of course on the resurrection having actually occurred, and seeing as we do not treat Caesar as a god....

Well I have given you some new information ,you are not going to
get from hardly anyone,never mind Christians,but not a question.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Well is that not what R Dawkins et al think No ?
And where did you get that about,no suffering or sadness ?

I have a confession to make.I have never read revelations.It was
not encouraged within the C Church which I left in my twenties to pursue
a pretty agnostic path,wich caused me alot of unhappiness for many years,
but I did study other cultures religions etc and am an expert
in 'astronomical correspondance' with events on the earth.
You are the first to know of the new term for what is often called astrology ,
but is really a lot of old cobblers since it has nothing to do with astronomy and
with the zodiac signs.
You have heard of the expression '' and the truth will set you free''.
And it did ,and led me back to happiness,and Christ ,my Saviour.

Do you believe in astrology?

 

[underheaven]

I hope you're not insinuating that the non-religious don't love themselves, others, or the familiar deceased.

In Europe where I am,there are many 'atheists' ?
In my own family , and I was one myself at one time.
But for most, now,especially in France,they can 'see' that those who
believe,even just a little,are happier have more 'light 'in their faces
as they get older .
May who say they are atheists,are just 'searching'.

Life in a very secular country becomes a 'grey 'experience ,and that
is not simply psychological. The French are realising this now.
There is no more secular ,beautifully organised country than France.
Lovely food ,wine,countryside,rights,etc ,but it all becomes rather
dead' after a while without the 'light within',which many are realising.

I should add that this light comes from the ''connection'' with he ''progamme maker''.

 

[Phred]

Jesus Christ says that He was the alpha,and the omega,and He is,

The man you claim was Jesus likely never said any such thing.

but Caesar was just a general,and a Caesar like many before him and since.

And Jesus was just a Christ. Like so many before and since. Born of a virgin. Died and resurrected after three days. Blah, blah, blah.

Jesus Christ has transformed life on earth like no one before Him or since.

His followers have transformed life on earth. Much for the worse. A thousand years of darkness and ignorance. How about landing on the moon in 969 instead of 1969? Thank you Christianity.

Without his coming to earth[for me,too much is made of the sacrifice
He made for he did it willingly,and thegod in him knew that death was just a
temporary moment ,but the man feared it ,as we all do.
He went down into Hell to release those imprisoned for their terrible sins ,the
greatest being denying God's existence,and he showed masses of generations
how to build a new self in order that there would be enough collective loving ,
purified,energy to prepare for the time when Uranus
would be 'seen' [not discovered] and release it's God created energy to
allow scientific advancement to begin.
The universe unfolds according to God's ordained plan.
Nothing happens without His designation,we simply react either in the
positive or negative way to the energies within the plan.

Really? How exactly does a planet that far away "release" "energy" that "allows" ... oh nevermind. What a steaming pile of nonsense.

 

[underheaven]

Do you believe in astrology?

You mean what is popularly called astrology,then no.
People trying to tell the future,when they don't even have the
correct astronomy,and making up stories to make money.

But do I think that since God created the heavens and the planets,
as well as the earth, that we can 'see' Him working through all of
His Creation,then yes,and it is quite clear.
Would I use what I know to tell the future,no, because,we are always 'free' to
'transform ourselves',and this can and does often change our
future,and I know that it is wrong to interfere in God's plans.
We must wait until we are given the 'green light'.

For me ,I would use it to realise that,we really do live in a
programmed universe,and that the 'programme'is unfolding as
planned.We are coming to the end of a Great Year,the end of a
great cycle of time in the astronomical world.

 

[Jazer]

I do not want or expect anything from a god/s. I'm saying we are good without god/s. God/s are not needed at this point in time.

So what happens when you do want or need something?

 

[underheaven]

The man you claim was Jesus likely never said any such thing.


And Jesus was just a Christ. Like so many before and since. Born of a virgin. Died and resurrected after three days. Blah, blah, blah.


His followers have transformed life on earth. Much for the worse. A thousand years of darkness and ignorance. How about landing on the moon in 969 instead of 1969? Thank you Christianity.


Really? How exactly does a planet that far away "release" "energy" that "allows" ... oh nevermind. What a steaming pile of nonsense.

If it was up to 'minds' like yours,we would never ever have had telephones,gone to the moon,flown etc.
Thank heavens there were those who could go beyond the mundane mind
and were called 'mad',or worse to to push humanity forward.
If you don't have anything intelligent or creative to say,better
to be quiet.

computers,

 

[Simply_Amazing]

If it was up to 'minds' like yours,we would never ever have had telephones,gone to the moon,flown etc.
Thank heavens there were those who could go beyond the mundane mind
and were called 'mad',or worse to to push humanity forward.
If you don't have anything intelligent or creative to say,better
to be quiet.

computers,

Eh, what? If people didn't believe in a biblical Jesus we'd never have put a man on the moon?

 

[Greg1234]

I do not want or expect anything from a god/s. I'm saying we are good without god/s. God/s are not needed at this point in time.

That's like saying you don't need your mother while stuffing groceries into your mouth at her table as you have nowhere else to go. Form the time you use your created being to type this message you defeat your own argument. Some people don't need the atom either btw. The real (nuclear) power comes after.

 

[Greg1234]

If God has absolved Himself of responsibility for the nasty things that happen, how come He still takes credit for the good? Why does He get to take credit when nice things happen, but is nowhere to be found when nasty things happen? A loved one recovers from a life threatening illness... "glory be to God", an earthquake kills 10,000...silence.

He's either responsible for both or neither. He can't pick and choose.

You were going on about how people dont joyfully attribute tragedies to God. Two pictures were posted. I lauded water for its benefits in the first picture and I also rejoiced when a man drowned (in water) in the second. What are you complaining about?

 

[underheaven]

Evolution is a scientific theory, not a moral code. In a way, I do believe that evolution is responsible for problems in society, as well as benefit, but not in such a way that removes individual responsibility. I don't have to like the way human beings have evolved to believe things happened a certain way.



I don't, but at least I'm trying. I'm not the one who claims omnipotence, omniscience, and to be the ultimate moral standard, while at the same time, allowing millions of people to die in ways unimaginably painful to either of us.

Well I kind of understand that,and I don't know if you know that early
Christians believed in reincarnation,which I think probably lasted in Ireland
for longer than the rest of Europe,since it was farther away and the Irish are a very 'spiritual people'.
If this was true it means we have brought 'karma' into this life from the past.
Before I go further on this subject, I will use your post here to ask
Christians on this forum. 'Why do you believe we were 'created when
we are born, if we were created at CREATION ?
Does it make sense to say that ?

I think many christians must stop being afraid to ask big questions?

 

[Simply_Amazing]

That's like saying you don't need your mother while stuffing groceries into your mouth at her table as you have nowhere else to go. Form the time you use your created being to type this message you defeat your own argument. Some people don't need the atom either btw. The real (nuclear) power comes after.

That depends on the true nature of God. (or lack there of)

 

[underheaven]

Eh, what? If people didn't believe in a biblical Jesus we'd never have put a man on the moon?

Welll may be you could 'reflect' just a little bit.
And no I am not going to explain all in one go,so you will have to
take off your 'blinkers'.I am not spoon feeding you or the lazy ones.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

But yeah, you Christians, you are so all about doing the right thing, right? I mean, you get a deity holding your hand through life and then eternal life in a handpicked house in a bejewelled city, where there is no pain or suffering or sadness. Yes, you just follow God because it's the right thing to do, and not a massive carrot-on-a-stick at all!

And control over the material universe? Are you kidding me? And "faith that can move mountains" is WHAT, exactly?

I'm not saying we always have the right attitudes and motives. But I didn't decide to turn my life over to Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior because of a desire to live in a bejewelled city or to move mountains.

I realized I really had gone my own way in rebellion away from the only One who is the author of all that is Good, and that I couldn't fix my heart or make up for it. I saw what was said on the subject in the Bible's New Testament, in the Gospels, and it resonated with me. I had gone my own way, prefered my darkness to the light, and wondered why things weren't going right, but not wanting to humble myself before my Creator -- and it wasn't working anymore, so would I turn around and faithfully follow Jesus as Lord or not? I came to believe He really did patiently wait and keep drawing me to turn towards Him. I came to believe He really did walk the earth as a human being, died on the cross, and rose from the dead, and that if I believed on Him, following Him in love, my sins would be forgiven, I would be cleansed, I could have good standing with God, who is the author of all good things, and I would have this eternally because of God's gracious mercy.

Non sequitur. ToE is what created the moral code, the theory itself (or rather, what the theory is describing) is not the moral code.

So what do you think is a moral code, in reality. You seem to intuit quite strongly that in some cases, a moral code is important and somehow ought to be binding on the consciences of others.

What does "personal response" have to do with validity? If anything, it can skew one's perception of it greatly.

Sure. At one time my 'personal response' to the Gospels found in the Bible was negative. At another time it was positive. I'm just saying it was personally drawing me to respond, while stories about Julius Caesar didn't have such an effect.

I would say that's wholly irrelevant to the matter of establishing what actually happened.

Well we don't have time machines. We do have some old texts. There are some people getting killed for holding on to their belief in Jesus, what were they thinking? What were these people like? The Gospels and Acts, etc., do present some interesting people in interesting situations.

They experienced something powerful. I trust what they wrote, myself. Can I prove it is all true to the satisfaction of someone else who insists on being radically skeptical? I don't count on arguing someone into faith, I don't care to argue as if it will make someone have faith.

Nope, sorry. They both claimed that their subjects were gods. Pretty important claims across the board.

So have you read the Gospels, lately? Have you read what ancient texts have survived about Julius Caesar, lately? There are big differences all over the place.

I do not want or expect anything from a god/s. I'm saying we are good without god/s. God/s are not needed at this point in time.

You can point to godless religious people who have sinned greatly, and I can point to godless atheists and non-Christians who have sinned, and we could make up a tally sheet, but it would be more relevant to read one of the Gospels found in the Bible and enter the story a bit, deal with it personally.

Nope, you're not telling the full story - those writing about Jesus claimed he was a god, just like the Julius Caesar fans did. There's much better evidence for Caesar than Christ, yet we do not worship Caesar. Again - consistency, across similar situations.

Wow, you can find a lot of evidence that you exist today, but we don't believe you are a god. Julius Caesar didn't die for anyone's sins and rise from the dead. What do they claim of him that's all that important?

 

[Greg1234]

No, not amazing. And I agree, the Bible should not be elevated higher than any other ancient historical text. Yes Jesus was a rabble rouser, seems they were a dime a dozen in Israel. Which is why

Jesusmythism

the Gospels make a tenous effort to show that Jesus was somehow special in that he was both Jewish royalty and priestly.

No "tenuous effort" was made. It's a record. These buzz words are simply subconscious manifestations of your own persuasion and may not be entirely relevant to those who already have a faith on the matter.

Again, if Jesus were indeed the son of a supernatural god, I would expect his book be slightly better than other historical texts, and it's not.

Actually, no. I would expect it to simply be a recording. Jn 21:25 alludes to the emphasis of this simplicity. And as Habernas writes

"We can perceive all the more how groundless the speculations are which deny His existence or which postulate only a minimal amount of facts concerning Him. Much of ancient history is based on many fewer sources which are much later than the events which they record.... While some believe that we know almost nothing about Jesus from ancient, non-New Testament sources, this plainly is not the case. Not only are there many such sources, but Jesus is one of the persons of ancient history concerning whom we have a significant amount of quality data. His is one of the most-mentioned and most-substantiated lives in ancient times."​

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Welll may be you could 'reflect' just a little bit.
And no I am not going to explain all in one go,so you will have to
take off your 'blinkers'.I am not spoon feeding you or the lazy ones.

Reflect on what? The absolute worthlessness of the argument?