How should we read Paul?

[Righttruth]

Yes, Paul was talking to the carnal Corinthians, infants in Christ. This scripture you post is from his second letter. He was telling them that he didn't want their money, but instead their love. The father thing is his way of telling them they needed to grow up instead of acting like infants, in my opinion. In his first letter, seen here below, paul calls them "brothers", but also infants



1 Corinthians 3:3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?


5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

We all know how notorious the Corinthian church was. Paul was there for about one and a half years. How is that he writes about communion after leaving? Were they not practicing properly when Paul was there?

How freely and ignorantly he speaks of parents expecting to support children? Where do you have that clue in the entire Bible? These are tricks of the trade to gather money. Puff them up to plunder.

 

[Extraneous]

We all know how notorious the Corinthian church was. Paul was there for about one and a half years. How is that he writes about communion after leaving? Were they not practicing properly when Paul was there?

How freely and ignorantly he speaks of parents expecting to support children? Where do you have that clue in the entire Bible? These are tricks of the trade to gather money. Puff them up to plunder.

If paul wanted to fleece them, he most likely would not insult them by calling them babies who needed to grow up. Instead he would have used flattery, and would have promised them financial prosperity as well, just as we see people doing today. Paul taught people to be content whether full or hungry, and to grow up and seek the spirit rather than needing teachers. Thats not the kind of stuff that tickles ears.

People want to remain infants so they dont have to take responsibility for themselves. They want to sit back and let the teacher take all the blame and do all the work. They also like to hear about carnal things like financial prosperity, but they hate hearing about enduring hardship.

 

[Righttruth]

If paul wanted to fleece them, he most likely would not insult them by calling them babies who needed to grow up. Instead he would have used flattery, and would have promised them financial prosperity as well, just as we see people doing today. Paul taught people to be content whether full or hungry, and to grow up and seek the spirit rather than needing teachers. Thats not the kind of stuff that tickles ears.

You may be knowing that 'gospel for prosperity' is a bad byproduct of Pentecostal movement which basically relies on 1 Corinthians' false claims? Paul was being crafty. He would tease them that they are babes so that people fall for proving that wrong.

Where has Jesus come out with an organized collection of funds?

People want to remain infants so they dont have to take responsibility for themselves. They want to sit back and let the teacher take all the blame and do all the work. They also like to hear about carnal things like financial prosperity, but they hate hearing about enduring hardship.

The Gospel is not a cake walk. It is carrying cross denying everything daily.

 

[Extraneous]

Where has Jesus come out with an organized collection of funds?



The Gospel is not a cake walk. It is carrying cross denying everything daily.

Jesus said not to store wealth on earth but in heaven. Thats sounds like organized collection of funds to me. Paul teaches that a person should give whats in His heart. Christ said not to store riches on earth but in heaven, and He also said that where our wealth is, so is our heart. If the words of Christ and Paul dont agree in this then i must be deaf.

I know the cross is no cakewalk. and paul teaches me that, just as Christ does.


BTW, Pentecostal prosperity preachers use far more OT scripture to teach their prosperity doctrine, than they do pauls words. They are always quoting the OT to justify their doctrine, and thats because Paul doesnt actually teach prosperity doctrine.

 

[nomadictheist]

Our neighbors could be friends or foes.

Not an answer. I didn't ask who our neighbors could be. I asked whether our enemies are our neighbors.

No, only who seek the spiritual things can understand Moses when he brought Law initially for the people who were slaves. The concept of Messiah was a later development confined to freedom from political rule. Hence only we find the word Messiah in Daniel, not in Moses' books. Moses had a limited responsibility to teach about righteousness through the letter of the Law.

You say Moses had no concept of the Messiah. Jesus said Moses wrote about Him. Who's right? I'm going with Jesus.

Also, there is no righteousness through the letter of the law for men because every man has transgressed the law except Jesus, the Messiah.

I was questioning 'faith only' concept derived out of Paul's piece-wise verses.

We are saved through faith alone. The fact that good fruit is the evidence of faith does not change that. There is no righteousness from ourselves.

 

[Righttruth]

Jesus said not to store wealth on earth but in heaven. Thats sounds like organized collection of funds to me. Paul teaches that a person should give whats in His heart. Christ said not to store riches on earth but in heaven, and He also said that where our wealth is, so is our heart. If the words of Christ and Paul dont agree in this then i must be deaf.

Are you saying Jesus words 'storing in heaven' is same as 'collecting money on earth' one and the same thing? You are not deaf, but appear to be blind.

I know the cross is no cakewalk. and paul teaches me that, just as Christ does.

Fringe is not the whole.

BTW, Pentecostal prosperity preachers use far more OT scripture to teach their prosperity doctrine, than they do pauls words. They are always quoting the OT to justify their doctrine, and thats because Paul doesnt actually teach prosperity doctrine.

Problem with Protestantism is that it basically believes the OT that has become redundant in many parts and Pauline appendix with total disregard to the Gospel (not Paul's abridged gospel, but words of the Master)

 

[Righttruth]

Not an answer. I didn't ask who our neighbors could be. I asked whether our enemies are our neighbors.

Could be.

You say Moses had no concept of the Messiah. Jesus said Moses wrote about Him. Who's right? I'm going with Jesus.

Then show me where Moses made a mention of Messiah. You can't claim to follow Jesus if you don't satisfy His definition of a disciple.

Also, there is no righteousness through the letter of the law for men because every man has transgressed the law except Jesus, the Messiah.

So Noah, Job and Abraham et al, as I had indicated before, were unrighteous? Do you think Law was given to become unrighteous? Jesus clearly said that He came not for the righteous (that means righteous people were there during Jesus' time), but for the sinners.

We are saved through faith alone. The fact that good fruit is the evidence of faith does not change that. There is no righteousness from ourselves.

That is passing the buck conveniently to put on an outward clothing.

 

[nomadictheist]

Could be.

Well, since you won't answer the question directly, will you accept Jesus' answer that every human being is our neighbor?

Then show me where Moses made a mention of Messiah. You can't claim to follow Jesus if you don't satisfy His definition of a disciple.

Deuteronomy 18:
The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.

And, of course, that's not even counting the foreshadowing of the passover lamb, the baptism in the red sea, etc.

So Noah, Job and Abraham et al, as I had indicated before, were unrighteous? Do you think Law was given to become unrighteous? Jesus clearly said that He came not for the righteous (that means righteous people were there during Jesus' time), but for the sinners.

That's one way to interpret the saying. The other way, and the one that is more in line with what Jesus taught, is that you have to realize you are a sinner before coming to Jesus. Consider who He was speaking to when He said that (the Pharisees), and what He says about them elsewhere, and tell me again that they were righteous.

That is passing the buck conveniently to put on an outward clothing.

Not passing the buck at all, unless by "passing the buck" you mean acknowledging the power of God to cause me to walk in the good works He has prepared for me beforehand.

Until you acknowledge that there is nothing you can do to earn salvation, you cannot receive the gift of grace. Until you acknowledge that you can do nothing without Christ, you cannot receive the power of the Holy Spirit. So it is no longer me, but Christ living in me.

 

[Extraneous]

Are you saying Jesus words 'storing in heaven' is same as 'collecting money on earth' one and the same thing? You are not deaf, but appear to be blind.

HOw does one store riches in heaven?

 

[Righttruth]

Well, since you won't answer the question directly, will you accept Jesus' answer that every human being is our neighbor?

Yes, of course.

Deuteronomy 18:
The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.

And, of course, that's not even counting the foreshadowing of the passover lamb, the baptism in the red sea, etc.

Sure, many prophets appeared after Moses, but none would equal Jesus.

That's one way to interpret the saying. The other way, and the one that is more in line with what Jesus taught, is that you have to realize you are a sinner before coming to Jesus. Consider who He was speaking to when He said that (the Pharisees), and what He says about them elsewhere, and tell me again that they were righteous.

Only those who admit themselves as sinners are able to humble themselves before God for whom the truth will be given. Now people pat their backs saying they have become saints after believing Jesus something based on Paul's letters.

Luke 5
8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

Hypocrites also claim to be righteous and saints.

Not passing the buck at all, unless by "passing the buck" you mean acknowledging the power of God to cause me to walk in the good works He has prepared for me beforehand.

God will not cause you to bear fruits.

Until you acknowledge that there is nothing you can do to earn salvation, you cannot receive the gift of grace. Until you acknowledge that you can do nothing without Christ, you cannot receive the power of the Holy Spirit. So it is no longer me, but Christ living in me.

Are a believer, disciple or follower? God pours rain on everyone. It is a free gift. Only those who use it will reap the benefits.

 

[Righttruth]

Well, since you won't answer the question directly, will you accept Jesus' answer that every human being is our neighbor?

Yes, of course.

Deuteronomy 18:
The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.

And, of course, that's not even counting the foreshadowing of the passover lamb, the baptism in the red sea, etc.

Many prophets appeared after Moses, but none can match Jesus.

That's one way to interpret the saying. The other way, and the one that is more in line with what Jesus taught, is that you have to realize you are a sinner before coming to Jesus. Consider who He was speaking to when He said that (the Pharisees), and what He says about them elsewhere, and tell me again that they were righteous.

Humility in spirit will help in knowing the truth.

Luke 5
8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

But hypocrites can claim to be righteous and saints based on Paul's letters.

Not passing the buck at all, unless by "passing the buck" you mean acknowledging the power of God to cause me to walk in the good works He has prepared for me beforehand.

God will not grow fruit for you.

Until you acknowledge that there is nothing you can do to earn salvation, you cannot receive the gift of grace. Until you acknowledge that you can do nothing without Christ, you cannot receive the power of the Holy Spirit. So it is no longer me, but Christ living in me.

Gift of God, like, rain is free. Only those who use it can harvest.

 

[Righttruth]

HOw does one store riches in heaven?

By walking in His way and leading a life that pleases Him.

 

[Extraneous]

By walking in His way and leading a life that pleases Him.

I'm reminded of the widows mite, and the teaching about the separation of sheep and goats.

 

[nomadictheist]

Yes, of course.

Then there you have it. If every human being is our neighbor, that includes our enemies. And what are the two greatest commandments? "Love the Lord your God with all your heart... and your neighbor as yourself."

Many prophets appeared after Moses, but none can match Jesus.

Jesus is the one who said Moses prophesied of Him, which affirms that this prophesy is, in fact, about Jesus.

Humility in spirit will help in knowing the truth.

Luke 5
8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

But hypocrites can claim to be righteous and saints based on Paul's letters.

Cite one place where Paul says this. Otherwise this is nothing more than slandering St. Paul

God will not grow fruit for you.

All fruit is from God. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Tell me, if the branch wants to bear fruit apart from the vine, can it?

Gift of God, like, rain is free. Only those who use it can harvest.

lol... What exactly do you mean by that?

If by "use it" you mean plant seeds that God made in the ground that God made on which the rain falls, care for the plants that God made as God causes them to grow, do your best to protect the plants from bugs and other animals (and disease) as God causes it to grow, and move around water that God has created, then I suppose you could say that, but all the work you're doing is just to try to make sure that what God's already done happens. So when it comes to producing good fruit in your own life, your "work" is to clear away all the clutter you fill yourself with so that Jesus can shine through your life.

 

[Righttruth]

I'm reminded of the widows mite, and the teaching about the separation of sheep and goats.

A beautiful example of widow's mite.

 

[Righttruth]

Then there you have it. If every human being is our neighbor, that includes our enemies. And what are the two greatest commandments? "Love the Lord your God with all your heart... and your neighbor as yourself."

You are beating round the bush instead of answering my query. I asked you to show where else in the Bible you find commandment, "Love your enemies." Jesus took us to a higher plane spiritually from the letter of the Law. Jesus did not bind with a limitation 'neighborhood' when He said 'love your enemies'. Can you understand the depth of His teaching? Logic can be worked out either way.

Jesus is the one who said Moses prophesied of Him, which affirms that this prophesy is, in fact, about Jesus.

Please try to prove with verses.

All fruit is from God. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Tell me, if the branch wants to bear fruit apart from the vine, can it?

Read John 15:1,2 again. Branch may not bear fruit which results in destruction.

If by "use it" you mean plant seeds that God made in the ground that God made on which the rain falls, care for the plants that God made as God causes them to grow, do your best to protect the plants from bugs and other animals (and disease) as God causes it to grow, and move around water that God has created, then I suppose you could say that, but all the work you're doing is just to try to make sure that what God's already done happens. So when it comes to producing good fruit in your own life, your "work" is to clear away all the clutter you fill yourself with so that Jesus can shine through your life.

You don't require faith also since God will do everything for you!

 

[nomadictheist]

You are beating round the bush instead of answering my query. I asked you to show where else in the Bible you find commandment, "Love your enemies." Jesus took us to a higher plane spiritually from the letter of the Law. Jesus did not bind with a limitation 'neighborhood' when He said 'love your enemies'. Can you understand the depth of His teaching? Logic can be worked out either way.

No, I'm not beating around the bush. I'm proving from the words of Christ that the commandment to love your enemy already existed.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus showed people that the actual standard of the law was much higher than was believed - that is, much higher than just living out the outward actions that were prescribed. If it were not, then the Pharisees would indeed have been the most righteous people of the time.

Please try to prove with verses.

I already provided the verses. How about you provide verses to support your view that Moses didn't prophesy of Jesus, since Jesus said that Moses did?

Read John 15:1,2 again. Branch may not bear fruit which results in destruction.

Actually, if you read the text (as I have done on many occasions), it says...
"Any branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away..." It doesn't say destroy. These are not the same thing.

However, in the next section, it says "if anyone does not abide in me he is cast out as a branch and withered..." So according to Jesus, a branch that is in Him that is not bearing fruit will be taken away. But anyone who is not in Him will be cast out and withered. This demonstrates that the important thing is abiding in Christ - not bearing good fruit.

You don't require faith also since God will do everything for you!

Not true at all. Stop telling me what I do or don't require. God works through faith - not because He has to, of course, but because He has chosen to. Have you not read that Jesus did not do many miracles in His hometown of Nazareth because of their unbelief?

Without faith it is impossible to please God. With faith you can do all things through Christ. As Jesus Himself said "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

 

[Righttruth]

No, I'm not beating around the bush. I'm proving from the words of Christ that the commandment to love your enemy already existed.

Since you indicated that belief in the Sermon on the Mount is not a requirement in your faith, if I remember correctly, what is the use for you? Quiet convenient right? I did not ask the pronouncement of Jesus. Where else is the question because that makes a big difference between Jesus and all other sources.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus showed people that the actual standard of the law was much higher than was believed - that is, much higher than just living out the outward actions that were prescribed. If it were not, then the Pharisees would indeed have been the most righteous people of the time.

So, what is your take? Sermon on the Mount or appendix of Pharisaic Paul?

I already provided the verses. How about you provide verses to support your view that Moses didn't prophesy of Jesus, since Jesus said that Moses did?

I don't see any in black and white. It can be only seen by people spiritually considering the initial part of God's dealing with slaves and far better future for the spiritually mature people, not bogged down by rituals and outward appearances in traditions.

Actually, if you read the text (as I have done on many occasions), it says...
"Any branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away..." It doesn't say destroy. These are not the same thing.

So you think God keeps it as a memento? This is called convenient theology.

However, in the next section, it says "if anyone does not abide in me he is cast out as a branch and withered..." So according to Jesus, a branch that is in Him that is not bearing fruit will be taken away. But anyone who is not in Him will be cast out and withered. This demonstrates that the important thing is abiding in Christ - not bearing good fruit.

It is not just abiding that makes everything automatic. Without bearing fruit, no salvation.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

How can one take just a part of the words of Jesus and the rest ignored conveniently? Is it just a belief in the name of Jesus, not His words? That is simply put, hypocrisy.

Not true at all. Stop telling me what I do or don't require. God works through faith - not because He has to, of course, but because He has chosen to. Have you not read that Jesus did not do many miracles in His hometown of Nazareth because of their unbelief?

Sure God works. Do you? It is just theory of faith? Faith without works is dead.

Without faith it is impossible to please God. With faith you can do all things through Christ. As Jesus Himself said "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

Don't you see two things here: abiding and bearing?

 

[nomadictheist]

Since you indicated that belief in the Sermon on the Mount is not a requirement in your faith, if I remember correctly, what is the use for you? Quiet convenient right? I did not ask the pronouncement of Jesus. Where else is the question because that makes a big difference between Jesus and all other sources.

No, I did not. Believing the entirety of the canon of scripture is a requirement of a disciple.

I reiterate: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Everyone is your neighbor, including your enemy. So in that command is included the command to love your enemy.

So, what is your take? Sermon on the Mount or appendix of Pharisaic Paul?

This is not an either/or question (nor are Paul's writings pharisaic). This would be like me asking "What do you use for fly fishing, a fly rod or flies?"

I don't see any in black and white. It can be only seen by people spiritually considering the initial part of God's dealing with slaves and far better future for the spiritually mature people, not bogged down by rituals and outward appearances in traditions.

Posting again:
Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

So you think God keeps it as a memento? This is called convenient theology.

No, this is called reading what God's word says and believing it.

It is not just abiding that makes everything automatic. Without bearing fruit, no salvation.

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

How can one take just a part of the words of Jesus and the rest ignored conveniently? Is it just a belief in the name of Jesus, not His words? That is simply put, hypocrisy.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
[/QUOTE]

You can see here that Jesus makes the main distinction between abiding in Him and not abiding in Him, and a secondary distinction between bearing fruit and not bearing fruit. Your interpretation that "takes away" means "destroys" requires reading into the text. Especially since He says in verse six that anyone who does not abide in Him is gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

But let's go on and see how your interpretation that tries to set our good works up as our savior works out:

“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

So Jesus says that if you keep His commandments you'll abide in His love. And then, what does He say His commandment is? That you love one another. He then goes on to say that even the 12 did not choose Him, but He chose them!

Sure God works. Do you? It is just theory of faith? Faith without works is dead.

I can do no good works without my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By faith, I can do the good works that God has appointed for me.

Don't you see two things here: abiding and bearing?

Yes indeed - two distinct things. Abiding, which determines your salvation, and bearing, which determines your reward.

 

[Righttruth]

No, I did not. Believing the entirety of the canon of scripture is a requirement of a disciple.

There you go again something other than what Jesus preached. Creed is not Bible. So you don't believe what Jesus defined about a disciple. Where does it say one has to believe the canon to be saved? That is definitely a man-made doctrine.

I reiterate: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Everyone is your neighbor, including your enemy. So in that command is included the command to love your enemy.

Adding interpretation conveniently.

This is not an either/or question (nor are Paul's writings pharisaic). This would be like me asking "What do you use for fly fishing, a fly rod or flies?"

That is exactly what Pauline Christianity about.

Posting again:
Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

That question is not applicable to me.

You can see here that Jesus makes the main distinction between abiding in Him and not abiding in Him, and a secondary distinction between bearing fruit and not bearing fruit. Your interpretation that "takes away" means "destroys" requires reading into the text. Especially since He says in verse six that anyone who does not abide in Him is gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

All those who don't abide in Him are likely to produce bad fruit. There is no problem in that, and it doesn't require any explanation. The problem is with who abide yet don't produce the good fruit. That is what Jesus is telling about.

But let's go on and see how your interpretation that tries to set our good works up as our savior works out:

“As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The way you have used the word 'disciple' loosely without recognizing the words of Jesus shows how far away you are from the words of Jesus.

11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

You are claiming that Jesus will bear fruit for you since you believe in His name.

So Jesus says that if you keep His commandments you'll abide in His love. And then, what does He say His commandment is? That you love one another. He then goes on to say that even the 12 did not choose Him, but He chose them!

But one was discarded.

I can do no good works without my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. By faith, I can do the good works that God has appointed for me.

That is what a priest and Levite thought as they walked away.

Yes indeed - two distinct things. Abiding, which determines your salvation, and bearing, which determines your reward.

Yes, two distinct things. One doesn't guarantee the other.