How should we read Paul?

[Righttruth]

You delve into the Gnostic texts? That explains a lot. If you are promoting Gnostic beliefs or even their texts as 'scripture' then you should seriously ask to move this thread to "Debate non-Christian."

I am ignorant of Gnostic texts. I believe in Christ and His words, not a Pauline Christian.

 

[Righttruth]

So you do see Paul as a commissioned messenger or ambassador of Jesus Christ?

That was the task given to him. Did he faithfully carry that out is the question?

 

[Righttruth]

You need to come to a fuller understanding of the above. Jesus did preach, he taught too. However, that is an incomplete approach. Jesus Christ not only spoke, but put into action His Words. He forgave, He healed, performed miracles. And the most profound act was to humbly take our sins upon His shoulders and be tortured to death. He rose from the dead, He ascended into Heaven to be seated at the Right Hand of the Father. Don't stop at the words, you must consider the actions and the actions and words must be seen in the Light of the Cross and Empty Tomb. This is how the 12 preached the Gospel and so did Barnabas, Silas and even Paul, the most prolific writer of all. Yet like the 12 and others commissioned by Christ Jesus, Paul too preached the Gospel not only in word but in power.

How much with his own power can be made out by comparing his claims with the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Righttruth]

righttruth,

1. Are you afraid to answer a simple question and give scriptural backup because you haven't done it yet.

2. Mature spiritual growth not being instantaneous has nothing to do with Paul saying I die daily.

3. Paul wrote to specific congregations and people and so did Moses. Moses was in a theocracy with just the jewish nation. That has nothing to do with Paul saying I die daily.

4. Spiritual maturity is studying the word to show ourselves approved a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word. You have not demonstrated this is any form or fashion in your posts to me.

5. You also have not even been specific what Paul deviated from. How can you rightly divide certain passages when you are not specific.

6. The bible says the word is profitable for doctrine, reproof, rebuke, correction, instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. This has to be understood with context and people and many other hermeneutical understandings.

7. You have shown in this post that you can make statements of truth so now you need to show that you can actually show proper context and proper scriptures to harmonize with the passage. Start out with 1 Corinthians 15:31 when Paul said I die daily and what he meant according to the context and back it up with the scripture that will harmonize with it. Who know you might be able to get it right but you will never know until you try. I'll be waiting to see if you really know and understand context. Try again. Jerry Kelso

It appears that you skipped my question on speaking gibberish and getting interpreted without any check or proof.

 

[Righttruth]

Let's start with one simple thing. Where does Paul disagree with Jesus? From scripture, show us one specific thing that Jesus says that Paul disagrees with.

Jesus never said to repeat the Passover as remembrance of His death!

 

[Righttruth]

Paul clearly affirms the necessity for obedience here in Romans 2:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

A believer in Jesus will not seek for his personal glory and honor; instead he will strive to attain immortality by being obedient to the Lord.

 

[nomadictheist]

Jesus never said to repeat the Passover as remembrance of His death!

Luke 22:14-23
And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. 21 But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table. 22 For the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!” 23 And they began to question one another, which of them it could be who was going to do this.

1 Corinthians 11:23-24

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

No contradiction there. Next?

 

[redleghunter]

He stopped going to Jews and giving baptism. When Paul missed the essence of the preaching of Jesus and made claims of his own where is the room for Jesus to speak? Acts covers only some portion of the work of disciples.

Paul did baptize. He helped plant churches and leadership of those churches which performed the baptisms.

Perhaps this is a good point at over 500 posts to inform us what you define as the Gospel.

 

[redleghunter]

Our disagreement is basically with Paul's epistles.

And what transcendent standard should we use to test truth claims since we are at odds?

 

[redleghunter]

I am ignorant of Gnostic texts. I believe in Christ and His words, not a Pauline Christian.

You affirmed Gnostic texts. The Acts of Thomas and Peter are Gnostic texts:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gnostics.html

 

[redleghunter]

That was the task given to him. Did he faithfully carry that out is the question?

I was not addressing the 'faithfully carrying out' claim. This is what I asked:

"So you do see Paul as a commissioned messenger or ambassador of Jesus Christ?"

Is your answer 'yes'?

 

[redleghunter]

How much with his own power can be made out by comparing his claims with the Gospel of Christ.

It was not his 'own' power. God worked miracles through the 12 and Paul. The miracles confirm the message is true.

 

[expos4ever]

I am out of this thread - I see no evidence of a productive discussion.

 

[ScottA]

Paul was not a witness in Jesus' earthly ministry. He never heard the elaboration of the parables by Jesus. Therefore, all his epistles should be tested to determine whether they complement the preaching of Jesus or not. Furthermore, any important theological concept cannot be based on Paul's epistles alone. Gospel is the filter one has to apply to his letters.

If you continue to follow after the written word alone, you will have been left behind as the Spirit of Christ continues into the times of the gentiles (the Church age) via the Holy Spirit. Paul's epistles are written also...but only as the also serve during the transition from the written Word to the revelation of the Spirit, after which there is no further use of the written Word as a standalone reference.

 

[jerry kelso]

It appears that you skipped my question on speaking gibberish and getting interpreted without any check or proof.

righttruth,

1. I asked you about 1 Corinthians 15:31 before you mentioned about 1 Corinthians 12.
You say gibberish shows you know nothing about speaking in tongues or its purpose.

2. A message in speaking in tongues and being interpreted is a gift from the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with context of 1 Corinthians 15:31.

3. I have already checked you and have proved you can make a generalized statement that has truth but nothing about context.

4. You need to stay focused on one thing at a time and try to show that you know anything about proper debate and rebuttal.

5. If you are not going to answer my question I asked first, then why should I jump and ask your question that you are complaining about me not answering. Try again and stay focused and give the context of 1 Corinthians 15. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

How much of preaching of Jesus Paul knew?

righttruth,

1. Paul knew all of Jesus teachings for Jesus lived and taught judaism and Paul was a jew and lived above his peers but went to the extreme and killed christians because he didn't understand the new covenant and he thought he was pleasing God because those christians were opposite of the Mosaic law. The gospel of the death and resurrection of Christ is an offence to the Mosaic covenant which was the old covenant which was replaced by the new covenant and it is an offence to those who don't want to believe.

2. Do you believe Jesus directly preached his death and resurrection as the gospel for the jews to come to him and be saved and enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Jesus ministry was Judaism in his earthly ministry to the jewish nation and was not a direct message to the church of the body of Christ because the gentiles didn't even have a covenant.
Did Jesus preach the old covenant or the new covenant? If you think Jesus taught his death and resurrection in his earthly ministry to the jews only of the KOH and the KOG then you don't know how to rightly divide the word. Explain yourself. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

righttruth,
You say you found truth from the sermon on the mount. Since you seem to think you understand the sermon on the mount and believe in context and who is being talked to etc., then please give the context of the sermon on the mount and tell us what Jesus main message was of this sermon in conjunction with the message of the KOH and the KOG. I'll be waiting even though I am sure you have no clue. Jerry Kelso

 

[Righttruth]

Luke 22:14-23
And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. 21 But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table. 22 For the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!” 23 And they began to question one another, which of them it could be who was going to do this.

1 Corinthians 11:23-24

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

No contradiction there. Next?

It is well known that the portion underlined with red letters were later insertions by Paul's cronies.

 

[nomadictheist]

It is well known that the portion underlined with red letters were later insertions by Paul's cronies.

No it's not "well known." It's alleged by people who don't like Paul and are looking for reasons to slander him.

Regardless of that, even at best for your argument this does not contradict Jesus' teaching. You can't provide a passage where Jesus says "don't ever do this in remembrance of Me."

 

[Righttruth]

Paul did baptize. He helped plant churches and leadership of those churches which performed the baptisms.

Perhaps this is a good point at over 500 posts to inform us what you define as the Gospel.

He did baptize, but gave up on his own to weave theories subsequently since he was not present when Lord gave the Great Commission to His chosen apostles.