How should we read Paul?

[Righttruth]

I'm sorry but Paul was directly commissioned by Jesus Christ.

Unless you have some vision or direct revelation from Christ, I will file this thread in the "X Files."

Yes, not as an apostle. It is revealed for those who believe the words of Christ.

 

[Righttruth]

Which apocryphal books?

Number of them. In particular Acts according to Thomas and Peter.

 

[Righttruth]

Acts 9 Jesus Christ directly commissioned Paul.

Acts 13 The Holy Spirit sets Paul and Barnabas apart.

You did not address this.

You give no epistemological reasoning at all but your mere opinion.

Right. Not as an apostle.

 

[Righttruth]

You should be able to explain it.

Guess not.

Very simple. Believe in Jesus' words first before you can understand others.

 

[Righttruth]

You reject Paul and his teachings.... that's your beef? I accept the Bible and all that's written in it!!!

Not entirely, accept what is complementary to Jesus' preaching.

 

[Righttruth]

Actually, I did read the first couple chapters of the book. I'm not going to pay money for it because, as I said, the author started out with the false presumption that Paul was not an apostle and built his case from that presumption rather than the Bible. I won't support false prophets.

That applies to you better because you rely on false claim of Paul against the call of Jesus.

No I haven't. I showed you how (1) this was a personal dissension and not a doctrinal division, and (2) how Peter's hypocrisy came before this. This is an outright lie.

That doesn't prove against the speculations of Paul weaved for ignorant Gentiles.

This proves nothing. It's a red herring. We're (1) not fish, and (2) we rely on scripture whereas you rely on this book. I'll hold to scripture.

That is another blind move.

That's why I said I'll rely on the apostle Paul's fruit, not that which you attribute to him. What have you given in this thread besides self-claims and boasting?

So you think Paul had special privilege for presumptions and boasting as admitted by him?[/QUOTE]

 

[nomadictheist]

That applies to you better because you rely on false claim of Paul against the call of Jesus.



That doesn't prove against the speculations of Paul weaved for ignorant Gentiles.



That is another blind move.



So you think Paul had special privilege for presumptions and boasting as admitted by him?

I have given plenty of scripture to support what the Bible teaches us. You have given 0 to support yours. Paul is not a boaster, nor does he say that he is. He says he will "boast in his infirmities..." Because those are where Jesus' strength is displayed. Nor does he make presumptions. It is you who reject Paul's apostleship contrary to the call of Jesus. And you have yet to show scripture to support your opinion. It is you that claim that Paul "misled" the gentiles without being able to provide a single reference that evidences this. You rely not on the scriptures, but on your own opinion.

My position is not an opinion; it is what the Bible teaches us. Your position is an opinion of a 21st century writer who believes that he has more wisdom than an apostle of Jesus. Once again, I will go with scripture on all points.

 

[redleghunter]

You know some Bibles will have Christ's words in red. I am only saying that they should be given paramount importance in our understanding of the way and life of Christ because that is the truth.

I agree the direct Words of God carry weight of Scriptures. Now tell us where Paul disobeyed the commands of Jesus Christ? What did Jesus say that Paul said something different?

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, not as an apostle. It is revealed for those who believe the words of Christ.

Indeed. I believe the direct Words of God as well, red and purple. Look we don't agree on a lot. So what transcendent standard to test our truth claims exists?

 

[AskGoddotBiz]

Paul was not a witness in Jesus' earthly ministry. He never heard the elaboration of the parables by Jesus. Therefore, all his epistles should be tested to determine whether they complement the preaching of Jesus or not. Furthermore, any important theological concept cannot be based on Paul's epistles alone. Gospel is the filter one has to apply to his letters.

LOL! ^^^^^ Paul was personally trained by Jesus for three years. Paul was needed to save Christianity, and restore the message of Grace/Faith not works. The disciples went bust post ascension. I suggest you read the Bible through Paul's eyes. JMO

 

[redleghunter]

Number of them. In particular Acts according to Thomas and Peter.

You delve into the Gnostic texts? That explains a lot. If you are promoting Gnostic beliefs or even their texts as 'scripture' then you should seriously ask to move this thread to "Debate non-Christian."

 

[redleghunter]

Right. Not as an apostle.

So you do see Paul as a commissioned messenger or ambassador of Jesus Christ?

 

[redleghunter]

Not entirely, accept what is complementary to Jesus' preaching.

You need to come to a fuller understanding of the above. Jesus did preach, he taught too. However, that is an incomplete approach. Jesus Christ not only spoke, but put into action His Words. He forgave, He healed, performed miracles. And the most profound act was to humbly take our sins upon His shoulders and be tortured to death. He rose from the dead, He ascended into Heaven to be seated at the Right Hand of the Father. Don't stop at the words, you must consider the actions and the actions and words must be seen in the Light of the Cross and Empty Tomb. This is how the 12 preached the Gospel and so did Barnabas, Silas and even Paul, the most prolific writer of all. Yet like the 12 and others commissioned by Christ Jesus, Paul too preached the Gospel not only in word but in power.

 

[jerry kelso]

Mature spiritual growth is not instantaneous. All grew gradually including Paul. Paul wrote to specific congregations and people, not to you and me. Hence it requires spiritual maturity to grasp from the writings what is truth applicable to us and what is deviation. Everything written cannot be applied universally without considering the context and people.

righttruth,

1. Are you afraid to answer a simple question and give scriptural backup because you haven't done it yet.

2. Mature spiritual growth not being instantaneous has nothing to do with Paul saying I die daily.

3. Paul wrote to specific congregations and people and so did Moses. Moses was in a theocracy with just the jewish nation. That has nothing to do with Paul saying I die daily.

4. Spiritual maturity is studying the word to show ourselves approved a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word. You have not demonstrated this is any form or fashion in your posts to me.

5. You also have not even been specific what Paul deviated from. How can you rightly divide certain passages when you are not specific.

6. The bible says the word is profitable for doctrine, reproof, rebuke, correction, instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. This has to be understood with context and people and many other hermeneutical understandings.

7. You have shown in this post that you can make statements of truth so now you need to show that you can actually show proper context and proper scriptures to harmonize with the passage. Start out with 1 Corinthians 15:31 when Paul said I die daily and what he meant according to the context and back it up with the scripture that will harmonize with it. Who know you might be able to get it right but you will never know until you try. I'll be waiting to see if you really know and understand context. Try again. Jerry Kelso

 

[nomadictheist]

That applies to you better because you rely on false claim of Paul against the call of Jesus.



That doesn't prove against the speculations of Paul weaved for ignorant Gentiles.



That is another blind move.



So you think Paul had special privilege for presumptions and boasting as admitted by him?

Let's start with one simple thing. Where does Paul disagree with Jesus? From scripture, show us one specific thing that Jesus says that Paul disagrees with.

 

[expos4ever]

Jesus also said that one has to be obedient to His words and produce fruit. Paul emphasizing only belief that is misleading.

Paul clearly affirms the necessity for obedience here in Romans 2:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life

 

[Righttruth]

I have given plenty of scripture to support what the Bible teaches us. You have given 0 to support yours. Paul is not a boaster, nor does he say that he is. He says he will "boast in his infirmities..." Because those are where Jesus' strength is displayed. Nor does he make presumptions. It is you who reject Paul's apostleship contrary to the call of Jesus. And you have yet to show scripture to support your opinion. It is you that claim that Paul "misled" the gentiles without being able to provide a single reference that evidences this. You rely not on the scriptures, but on your own opinion.

My position is not an opinion; it is what the Bible teaches us. Your position is an opinion of a 21st century writer who believes that he has more wisdom than an apostle of Jesus. Once again, I will go with scripture on all points.

The canon is man-made. It is different for different groups. Please read 2 Corinthians on Paul's boasting, and how he was troubled by a messenger of Satan. He misled Gentiles with his own invention of the word 'remembrance' to institute a dead ritual.

 

[Righttruth]

I agree the direct Words of God carry weight of Scriptures. Now tell us where Paul disobeyed the commands of Jesus Christ? What did Jesus say that Paul said something different?

He stopped going to Jews and giving baptism. When Paul missed the essence of the preaching of Jesus and made claims of his own where is the room for Jesus to speak? Acts covers only some portion of the work of disciples.

 

[Righttruth]

Indeed. I believe the direct Words of God as well, red and purple. Look we don't agree on a lot. So what transcendent standard to test our truth claims exists?

Our disagreement is basically with Paul's epistles.

 

[Righttruth]

LOL! ^^^^^ Paul was personally trained by Jesus for three years. Paul was needed to save Christianity, and restore the message of Grace/Faith not works. The disciples went bust post ascension. I suggest you read the Bible through Paul's eyes. JMO

What a fabricated fable.