How should we read Paul?

[redleghunter]

Please read the gospel books, letters of Peter, James, John and letter to Hebrews and then Paul's.

You mentioned a book by an engineer which was your inspiration for creating this thread.

 

[redleghunter]

Here this may refresh your memory:

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-should-we-read-paul.7935087/page-3#post-69332498

 

[Righttruth]

So if as you claim he mislead people would that not make him a false prophet? Why won't you just say so and stop dancing around the issue?

You would then have to reject Acts 13 when Paul and Barnabas are separated out by the Holy Spirit for their missionary journeys.

As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

Paul qualifies as a saint and disciple. But as a scholar with pride he could not know the simple and sublime truths Jesus had preached. Just because both are sent for the ministry, that did not qualify to be called for the limited posts of apostleship.

 

[Righttruth]

Opposite my friend. Paul did not as indicated in my quote separate himself but eagerly engaged. Peter was exclusive.

No, no! He said something like 'I would dance with Jews like Jews'! You know Jews are exclusive!

 

[redleghunter]

Paul qualifies as a saint and disciple. But as a scholar with pride he could not know the simple and sublime truths Jesus had preached. Just because both are sent for the ministry, that did not qualify to be called for the limited posts of apostleship.

Let's be careful shall we? The Holy Spirit commissioned Paul and Barnabas in Acts 13.

 

[Righttruth]

You mentioned a book by an engineer which was your inspiration for creating this thread.

Yes, to proclaim the truth and glorify the Son.

 

[redleghunter]

No, no! He said something like 'I would dance with Jews like Jews'! You know Jews are exclusive!

That's simply a ridiculous answer.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, to proclaim the truth and glorify the Son.

Yet the gentleman who wrote the book has no known theological training. Sure he's intelligent or brilliant in his field of engineering.

However what qualifications does he have that are greater than a ThD on Biblical matters?

 

[redleghunter]

No, no! He said something like 'I would dance with Jews like Jews'! You know Jews are exclusive!

Please exclamation points are not needed as this is a discussion and not a foot stomping tirade.

 

[Righttruth]

Notice it was the Holy Spirit who called Paul and Barnabas.

Careful friend how you approach this one. And what Jesus Christ said.

Jesus called Paul, His 'chosen instrument'. No such specific calling for Barnabas, and we don't see Barnabas claiming the title of apostle by himself! The Holy Spirit did not give any other title subsequently.

 

[Righttruth]

Yet the gentleman who wrote the book has no known theological training. Sure he's intelligent or brilliant in his field of engineering.

However what qualifications does he have that are greater than a ThD on Biblical matters?

The chosen 12 apostles had no theological training either so also the Son of God! If they had, probably it would have led similar speculations indulged by Paul!

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus called Paul, His 'chosen instrument'. No such specific calling for Barnabas, and we don't see Barnabas claiming the title of apostle by himself! The Holy Spirit did not give any other title subsequently.

It's in Acts 13:

2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away

 

[Righttruth]

Please exclamation points are not needed as this is a discussion and not a foot stomping tirade.

Sorry. I will avoid in future. Couldn't resist! [one last time]

 

[Righttruth]

It's in Acts 13:

2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away

No problem in that.

 

[redleghunter]

The chosen 12 apostles had no theological training either so also the Son of God! If they had, probably it would have led similar speculations indulged by Paul!

Now you are comparing a 21st century mechanical engineer to the 12 Apostles? Yet Paul did not qualify?


About the Author: by Devaprakash R. Shampur (Author)
The author is a retired principal and professor of mechanical engineering having served in a couple of engineering colleges in the state of Karnataka. He had his education both in India as well as in the U.S.A., with degrees of Master of Engineering from Bangalore University and Master of Science from the University of Cincinnati, USA. He is a fellow of the Institution of Engineers (India) and a member of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. He has been listed in “Who is Who in the World?” published by Marquis, U.S.A., Dictionary of International Biography, Cambridge, U.K., and Asia’s “Who is Who?” He is a freelancer. His letters and opinions have been published in almost all English Dailies (Deccan Herald, Times of India, New Indian Express, Hindu, Vijaya Times, Daily News Analysis, Free Press Journal, and Asian Age); weeklies (India Today, Outlook, Frontline, and The Week) and Reader’s Digest including ASME Mechanical Engineering Magazine. His books, “Wisdom, Human Spirit and Travel”, “Why I Am A Believer in Jesus” (A Story of a Hindu Devanga Brahmin), “Can A Christian Marry, Divorce, and Remarry” and “Artful Argentina and Awesome Antarctica” have been published by Notion Press.

 

[Righttruth]

Now you are comparing a 21st century mechanical engineer to the 12 Apostles? Yet Paul did not qualify?


About the Author: by Devaprakash R. Shampur (Author)
The author is a retired principal and professor of mechanical engineering having served in a couple of engineering colleges in the state of Karnataka. He had his education both in India as well as in the U.S.A., with degrees of Master of Engineering from Bangalore University and Master of Science from the University of Cincinnati, USA. He is a fellow of the Institution of Engineers (India) and a member of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. He has been listed in “Who is Who in the World?” published by Marquis, U.S.A., Dictionary of International Biography, Cambridge, U.K., and Asia’s “Who is Who?” He is a freelancer. His letters and opinions have been published in almost all English Dailies (Deccan Herald, Times of India, New Indian Express, Hindu, Vijaya Times, Daily News Analysis, Free Press Journal, and Asian Age); weeklies (India Today, Outlook, Frontline, and The Week) and Reader’s Digest including ASME Mechanical Engineering Magazine. His books, “Wisdom, Human Spirit and Travel”, “Why I Am A Believer in Jesus” (A Story of a Hindu Devanga Brahmin), “Can A Christian Marry, Divorce, and Remarry” and “Artful Argentina and Awesome Antarctica” have been published by Notion Press.

Paul never qualified to become another extra apostle over and above 12.

 

[redleghunter]

No problem in that.

I'm glad. Now please explain how Paul, commissioned by the Holy Spirit mislead souls on his missionary journeys.

This may be a good point to clarify your earlier hyperbole as maybe you did not have this information.

You accuse Paul of arrogance. Now may be the time to admit you went a bit too far in your claims Paul misled, was crafty etc. Strong words against a man who had the approval and commission not only of Jesus Christ but the Holy Spirit Who testifies of the Son.

 

[redleghunter]

Paul never qualified to become another extra apostle over and above 12.

He called himself the least of them. See 1 Corinthians 15.

I guess we have to decide whether you and a mechanical engineer are right or believe Paul.

Not a tough decision.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

The word 'scripture' in the NT refers only to the OT!

Did you read, "All Scripture "is" God- Breathed" or "All Scripture "was" God-Breathed"? Do you have to take us through English Tutorials to see the tense used!!!! I have no idea why you read Paul from a man's perspective ... It's horribly misguided translation!!!

When he called himself the least of them... It means he never deserved to have the calling to spread the gospel like the apostles because he persecuted the church. The statement never changed Jesus had 12 disciples but there was a new change on who else could spread the word of God in a similar capacity.

On the other hand, who are we to say who Jesus should have called and who he shouldn't have? Also Paul's case was above and over the other disciples who were later called into the ministry or baptized by the other apostles. He's the only one who was called into apostleship by Jesus himself (long after He ascended into heaven) in the scriptures.

 

[Strong in Him]

Scripture ended with the OT. Subsequent writings have to understood by the help of the Holy Spirit. Whatever writings that don't remind of Jesus' preaching or go against it should be rejected.

Sorry but I'm not interested in subsequent writings.
Maybe I should read a few of them to find out what they say, and maybe one day I will. But if they are not in Scripture, then there was a reason for leaving them out. And I'm not talking so much about the Apocrypha, but about books like "the Gospel of Peter" or "Gospel of Thomas".

The Holy Spirit inspired the books and letters to be written and he showed men which books and letters to include in the canon of Scripture. He, the Spirit of truth, inspired God's word - which reveals God - to be written down.

A chosen one is also sent. But that won't fetch apostleship!

Like I say, you're obsessed with the word Apostle!
Paul is JESUS' chosen one - but you still accuse him of writing white lies, having his own agenda, trying to promote himself and other things too. Then you say you only trust some of his writings. If he is untrustworthy, then everything he says is suspect; how do you know when he is telling the truth? If he writes white lies, then Jesus chose a liar.

The fact is that Paul was chosen by Jesus, preached Jesus, lived for Jesus, taught what Jesus taught and died for Jesus. You seem to be ignoring these facts because they don't suit your position, which is that Paul is a false teacher.

Don't underestimate Satan who is still diverting many from the truth. It is easy to distract with the play of words and declare equality!

That's a rather convenient way of avoiding the question.

I asked, what gives YOU the right to judge and condemn Paul when neither the other apostles, nor God himself, did so. IF Paul made false claims about himself, then it was up to Peter or James, as head of the church, or the Lord Jesus, whose church it is and who is the supreme head, to rebuke him and write to all his churches to tell them so that they were not led away from the faith. But this did not happen; quite the opposite in fact. Peter and the 12 welcomed and accepted Paul; Peter later called him a brother and urged people to accept his writings.
The early church had problems with Judaisers, Gnostics and other false teachers - Paul was not one of them. So again, if they did not have a problem with it, how do you have the right to say that he was false? I'm not playing with words, I'm asking you a simple question. If you do not have an answer; that's fine. At least then everyone will know.