How should Romans 10:13 read?

childofdust

Newbie
May 18, 2010
1,041
92
✟2,177.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
I think the question is, Should you translate the word "kurios" as Lord or Jehovah?

You hit the right question, Timothew. Even if we all agree that kurios means “lord,” what does “lord” mean? Could it mean “YHWH” particularly? Or something else more specifically? All translation involves interpretation and this is an instance where the rubber of interpretation meets the road of translation. Just because “lord” is correct doesn't necessarily mean that some other rendering isn't just as correct or more correct. The word “lord” in Hebrew also means “master/husband/owner/sovereign” and has many other connotations. The thing is: all words have semantic ranges. In different contexts, the same word could mean something completely different. For instance, the verb love in “I love chocolate” means something completely different than “let's make love” or “do you love me?” And if someone were going to translate my English verb “love” into a different language, they would use different words for those three uses of the same English word in order to communicate effectively and precisely what “love” means in those three instances of English. So the trick of translation is understanding the subtleties, ambiguities, and cultural contexts that give semantic meaning to a word. Whether a translation is “bad” or not depends upon whether the word it uses makes sense or not in terms of that semantic meaning. As Radagast says, “kurios” is used both for YHWH and Yeshua in the New Testament. Whether it is to “show Christ's divinity” or not is a matter of interpretation, but the fact remains that “kurios” can carry the specific connotation of YHWH. So there may be instances where YHWH is, in fact, a better and more specific translation of “kurios.” Just like there are probably cases where using the same word to translate the English word “love” would be a worse translation, so there are probably cases where translating “kurios” as “lord” is a worse translation. But in order to know where these circumstances might or might not be operative, one has to look at the context.

Radagast said:
Versions of the NT produced by non-Trinitarian groups (like the Jehovah's Witnesses) often change some uses of kyrie to "Yahweh" or "Jehovah," as a way of downplaying NT teaching about Christ's divinity. However, this is mistranslation.

If the only reason someone uses something like Yahweh or Jehovah for “kurios” is because they have an a priori agenda to downplay some doctrine they disagree with, then this would certainly be a case of mistranslation. Translation is about finding the best meaning in the target language that mimics the meaning in the source language, not rejecting a meaning in the target language because it conflicts with your doctrine. However, if these groups use something like Yahweh or Jehovah for “kurios” because that is a possible or even likely meaning of the source language, then that is not at all a mistranslation. So, like always, the only way to really know is to look at the context.

As Radagast mentions, Romans 10:13 is referencing Joel 2:32 in the LXX, which is Joel 3:5 in the Hebrew. The LXX uses “kurios” as a translation of the divine name in Hebrew. Here is the Hebrew:

וְהָיָ֗ה כֹּ֧ל אֲשֶׁר־יִקְרָ֛א בְּשֵׁ֥ם יְהוָ֖ה יִמָּלֵ֑ט
Now, look, every [one] who calls on the name of YHWH will escape.

In this case, then, a translation of Rom 10:13 using “Jehovah, Yahweh, YHWH, LORD, etc” would be perfectly acceptable and even, perhaps, more correct than simply “lord,” because it would be nothing more than a direct translation of the Hebrew, which the LXX (quoted by Paul) was using “kurios” to represent. It is not, by any means, a mistranslation, but an interpretative move by the translator (which all translators must make) to communicate the meaning of “kurios” in this verse as accurately as possible.

If someone wants to make the argument that “lord” better represents the meaning of the Joel 3:5(Hebrew) and 2:32(LXX) passage here in Romans, they would have to present an equally compelling argument for why the passage doesn't mean to actually speak about YHWH when it quotes the text referring to YHWH. If they are able to, then “lord” would certainly be at least just as good and perhaps even better than something like “Jehovah, Yahweh, etc.”

In either case, it remains a fact that something isn't a bad translation either because it says “lord” or “Yahweh,” but because of what the intended meaning is and how that best makes sense in English.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
... For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus] shall be saved.

I don't understand the relevance of some of the passages you quoted. What I do understand is that (1) the name Jesus does not appear in Rom 10:13, and (2) Rom 10:13 is a quote from the OT.

I would say that the passage applies to Jesus, even though the original use in Joel did not, and that Paul is thus highlighting that Jesus is God. Editing the verse in a way that hides what Paul does is mistranslation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As Radagast mentions, Romans 10:13 is referencing Joel 2:32 in the LXX, which is Joel 3:5 in the Hebrew.

The other way around, I think.

The LXX uses “kurios” as a translation of the divine name in Hebrew.

Correct. But the key thing is that the NT uses "kurios" for both YHWH and Jesus. It's a mistranslation to try and force the verse to say "Jesus" (as he-man does) or to force it to say "Jehovah" (as the Jehovah's Witnesses do).

Paul is taking an OT verse about YHWH and applying it to Jesus. Translating "kurios" one way in verse 9 and a different way in verse 13 hides this, and is a mistranslation. Altering the Joel quote also hides this, and is also a mistranslation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

childofdust

Newbie
May 18, 2010
1,041
92
✟2,177.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
Editing the verse in a way that hides what Paul does is mistranslation.

If someone renders a verse in order to hide something Paul is saying, that would be a mistranslation, certainly. So the question is “what is Paul saying?” If one renders a translation in a way that best represents what Paul is saying, it is not a mistranslation by any means.

It's a mistranslation to try and force the verse to say "Jesus" (as he-man does) or to force it to say "Jehovah" (as the Jehovah's Witnesses do).

It would certainly be a mistranslation if someone were trying to “force” it to say something it doesn't. But if the translation uses the word “kurios” to mean Jesus or to mean “Jehovah,” then to translate according to what the Greek means to say is no mistranslation at all, but a very good one!

Paul is taking an OT verse about YHWH and applying it to Jesus. Translating "kurios" one way in verse 9 and a different way in verse 13 hides this, and is a mistranslation. Altering the Joel quote also hides this, and is also a mistranslation.

“Hiding” has to do with trying to say something other than what the text means. If the text uses one word to mean “Jesus” and uses the same word in another place to mean “Jehovah,” it is by no means hiding or mistranslating to render in English what the text means by what it says (any more so than using a different word to translate "love" when someone uses the English word "love" in different ways)—that is good translation! Rather, it would be “hiding” and “mistranslation” to use the word “lord” when we know that the text is communicating to us a more specific and accurate meaning using that word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
“Hiding” has to do with trying to say something other than what the text means. If the text uses one word to mean “Jesus” and uses the same word in another place to mean “Jehovah,” it is by no means hiding or mistranslating to render in English what the text means

It's mistranslation (or worse) to edit the word of God to make it fit some theory that the word "only" means Jesus or "only" means YHWH.

The best translation is to translate what it says. "Kurios" translates as "Lord," and (as far as I know) all Christian versions of the New Testament translate it that way.
 
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It would certainly be a mistranslation if someone were trying to “force” it to say something it doesn't. But if the translation uses the word “kurios” to mean Jesus
τὸ δὲ καθίσαι ἐκ δεξιῶν μου ἢ ἐξ εὐωνύμων οὐκ ἔστιν ἐμὸν δοῦναι Mk. 10:40
but to sit on my right or left is not mine to give


So also in Greek, as a rule, the case of the relative pronoun is determined by its function in its own clause.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So also in Greek, as a rule, the case of the relative pronoun is determined by its function in its own clause.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to the question at hand, which is how to translate the quote from the LXX in Romans 10:13.
 
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I'm not sure how this is relevant to the question at hand, which is how to translate the quote from the LXX in Romans 10:13.
Lord is not specified as to what the exact spelling is and the translators added the accent and the ́ριος
Rom 10:13 πας γαρ ος αν επικα λεσηται το ονομα κυ σωθησεται Codex Sinaiticus

How shall they go unless they be sent in the name of Jesus Christ, then whosoever shall do so be saved.
Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

In The Hebrew, it is talking about a remnant of Jews who call on the name of God and in Romans it is talking about all who call on the name of the Lord, which would have to be through Christ:

והיה כל אשר-יקרא בשם יהוה ימלט כי בהר-ציון ובירושלם תהיה פליטה כאשר אמר יהוה ובשרידים אשר יהוה קרא
It shall happen all who call on the name of Jehovah shall be rescued for in Mt Zion and in Jerusalem will happen a remnant as Jehovah said a remnant which Jehovah shall call. Joel 2:32

Joe 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:13
πας γαρ ος αν επικα λεσηται το ονομα κυ σωθησεται Codex Sinaiticus


Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord κυ [Jesus] shall be saved.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Lord is not specified as to what the exact spelling is and the translators added the accent and the ριος

Not true: "kurios" has only one spelling in Greek, but some manuscripts (like Sinaiticus) abbreviate references to God, as a sign of respect. In the same chapter, for example, "Theos" becomes "Ths," and "Christos" becomes "Chs." And not just manuscripts: also in this mosaic from an ancient church:

inscription%202%20close-up%20small.gif


However, you're better off using a standard Greek text (based on multiple manuscripts), rather than just looking at Sinaiticus.

And, once again, the two key things in this passage are (1) a little earlier Paul uses "kurios" to refer to Jesus, and (2) verse 13 is a quote from the OT book of Joel (in the LXX). I think that's been emphasised enough to answer the OP's question.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Not true: "kurios" has only one spelling in Greek, but some manuscripts (like Sinaiticus) abbreviate references to God, as a sign of respect. In the same chapter, for example, "Theos" becomes "Ths," and "Christos" becomes "Chs." And not just manuscripts: also in this mosaic from an ancient church:However, you're better off using a standard Greek text (based on multiple manuscripts), rather than just looking at Sinaiticus.
I look at all manuscripts and you need to lookat where the accent is located Rom 10:13 Πᾶς γὰρ ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται. κυρίου sing. gen guardian, trustee

Gen 2:4 TheseH428 are the generationsH8435 of the heavensH8064 and of the earthH776 when they were created,H1254 in the dayH3117 that the LORDH3068 GodH430 madeH6213 the earthH776 and the heavens,H8064 Accented Κύριος, the Lord, = Hebr. Jehovah, = Hebr. Yahweh
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORDH3068 shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORDH3068 hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORDH3068 shall call.H3068 יהוה Jehovah
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as.... they shall call on my name,H8034 and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORDH3068 is my God.H430
H3068 יהוה Jehovah

Psa 18:2 The LORDH3068 is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God H410, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Yahweh shall judge the ends of the earth; and shall give the mighty corner to his king, and exalt the horn of the Messiah.

Is 43:14 Thus said Jehovah, your saviour, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent and worn out, and have brought down all their nobles, to be ashamed and the Chaldeans, whose song of prayer is in the ships.

Interlinear
πᾶς γὰρ infatti ὃς chiunque ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται avrà invocato τὸ il ὄνομα nome
κυρίου del signore σωθήσεται sarà salvato.

signor (also signore)
■ noun (plural signori -'njɔ:ri:) a title or form of address used of or to an Italian-speaking man, corresponding to Mr or sir. Ital., from L. senior (see senior).

© Oxford University Press, 2004

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dcyates

Senior Member
May 28, 2005
1,513
88
58
Calgary, AB.
✟2,162.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
How should Romans 10:13 read?

“For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”. . .”-New World transaltion of the Holy Scriptures


"since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered. Footnote reads, "A.do.nai - the LORD, Jehovah."-'Jewish New Testament’ translated by David H. Stern p.211.

"For Whoever calls with the name of Yahweh will be saved""-'The Book Of Yahweh - The Holy Scriptures' p.881.

"for whoever shall call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved."-'The Sacred Scriptures' (Bethel Edition) p.883.


"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."-King James Version

barrryob
I'm sure someone has pointed this out already, but just in case...

The word 'Jehovah' is actually derived from a simple misunderstanding. Because Jews wanted to ensure that they didn't violate the 3rd commandment by even inadvertently taking God's name in vain, they refused to actually verbalize it. But because the Hebrew Bible has God's divine name written throughout, there developed a reading convention common enough where it took on the name 'ketib qere' -- meaning 'what is written (as opposed to) what is read' -- what is written is the Tetragrammaton (i.e. 'four letters') 'Y-H-W-H' but what is read is 'adonai', the Hebrew word for 'lord'. In order to remind themselves not to verbalize the divine name, they later inserted the vowels from the word 'adonai' in between the letters of the Tetragrammaton, resulting in 'YaHoWaH'. Since much of our theology comes down to us through Germanic languages, where 'J' is pronounced as 'Y' and 'W' is pronounced as 'V', thus we have 'JaHoVaH', which eventually became 'Jehovah'.

Nevertheless, this points us toward something far more significant. While reading their Scriptures, because Jews read aloud 'adonai', or 'Lord', every time they came to the divine name, they began to refer to God all but exclusively as 'adonai'. And because the Greek language eventually became the lingua franca of the ancient Near Eastern world, when the Hebrew Bible was eventually translated into Greek -- a.k.a. the Septuagint (LXX) -- and since the divine name was always read as 'adonai', the Tetragrammaton was translated into the Greek word for 'lord', 'kurios'. Therefore, since to good Jews only God was referred to as 'adonai' or 'kurios', for the NT writers to refer to Jesus as 'kurios', or 'Lord', is simply huge, since it is at the same time saying they regarded Jesus as none other than God.
 
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Therefore, since to good Jews only God was referred to as 'adonai' or 'kurios', for the NT writers to refer to Jesus as 'kurios', or 'Lord', is simply huge, since it is at the same time saying they regarded Jesus as none other than God.
It is simply a HUGE mistake for the Bible says :

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as.... they shall call on my name,H8034 and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORDH3068 is my God.H430
Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORDH3068 said unto my Lord,H113 Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.H3068 יהוה Jehovah
H113 'âdôn

Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)
The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God
Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

“Adonai and Adoni are variations of Masoretic pointing to distinguish divine reference from human.”
Adonai is referred to God but Adoni to human superiors.
Adoni — ref. to men: my lord, my master [see Ps. 110:1]

Adonai — ref. to God…Lord (Brown, Driver, Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, under adon [= lord]).
“The form ADONI (‘my lord’), a royal title (I Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title ADONAI (‘my Lord’) used of Yahweh.” “ADONAI — the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adonai [with short vowel] = my lords” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Lord,” p. 157).

The reason why [God is addressed] as adonai, [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [with short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from human lords” (Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, p. 531).

“The form ‘to my lord,’ l’adoni, is never used in the OT as a divine reference…the generally accepted fact that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine references (adonai) from human references (adoni)” (Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the OT, p. 22) (Herbert Bateman, “Psalm 110:1 and the NT,” Bibliothecra Sacra, Oct.-Dec., 1992, p. 438).http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/adonai.htm
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Therefore, since to good Jews only God was referred to as 'adonai' or 'kurios', for the NT writers to refer to Jesus as 'kurios', or 'Lord', is simply huge, since it is at the same time saying they regarded Jesus as none other than God.

Exactly! :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
:doh:It is simply a HUGE mistake for the Bible says :

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as.... they shall call on my name,H8034 and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORDH3068 is my God.H430
Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORDH3068 said unto my Lord,H113 Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.H3068 יהוה Jehovah
H113 'âdôn

Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)

The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God
Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

“Adonai and Adoni are variations of Masoretic pointing to distinguish divine reference from human.”
Adonai is referred to God but Adoni to human superiors.
Adoni — ref. to men: my lord, my master [see Ps. 110:1]

Adonai — ref. to God…Lord (Brown, Driver, Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, under adon [= lord]).
“The form ADONI (‘my lord’), a royal title (I Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title ADONAI (‘my Lord’) used of Yahweh.” “ADONAI — the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adonai [with short vowel] = my lords” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Lord,” p. 157).

The reason why [God is addressed] as adonai, [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [with short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from human lords” (Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, p. 531).

“The form ‘to my lord,’ l’adoni, is never used in the OT as a divine reference…the generally accepted fact that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine references (adonai) from human references (adoni)” (Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the OT, p. 22) (Herbert Bateman, “Psalm 110:1 and the NT,” Bibliothecra Sacra, Oct.-Dec., 1992, p. 438).Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
All this Hebrew is completely irrelevant; the NT is written in Greek.

As dcyates says, kurios is what the Greek OT (the LXX) uses for the name of God (hence its use in this quote from Joel 2:32) but kurios is also the title used for Jesus in the NT. This verse in Romans applies the Joel quote to Jesus... very clearly implying the divinity of Jesus.

This is of course why the New World translation (produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses) edits the passage to remove the implied claim that Jesus is God.
 
Upvote 0

he-man

he-man
Oct 28, 2010
8,891
301
usa
✟90,748.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
All this Hebrew is completely irrelevant; the NT is written in Greek.
:doh:Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORDH3068 said unto my Lord,H113 Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.H3068 יהוה Jehovah
H113 'âdôn


Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)
The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God
Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

 
Upvote 0

dcyates

Senior Member
May 28, 2005
1,513
88
58
Calgary, AB.
✟2,162.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
It is simply a HUGE mistake for the Bible says :

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as.... they shall call on my name,H8034 and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORDH3068 is my God.H430
Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORDH3068 said unto my Lord,H113 Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.H3068 יהוה Jehovah
H113 'âdôn

Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)
The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God
Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

“Adonai and Adoni are variations of Masoretic pointing to distinguish divine reference from human.”
Adonai is referred to God but Adoni to human superiors.
Adoni — ref. to men: my lord, my master [see Ps. 110:1]

Adonai — ref. to God…Lord (Brown, Driver, Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, under adon [= lord]).
“The form ADONI (‘my lord’), a royal title (I Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title ADONAI (‘my Lord’) used of Yahweh.” “ADONAI — the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adonai [with short vowel] = my lords” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Lord,” p. 157).

The reason why [God is addressed] as adonai, [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [with short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from human lords” (Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, p. 531).

“The form ‘to my lord,’ l’adoni, is never used in the OT as a divine reference…the generally accepted fact that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine references (adonai) from human references (adoni)” (Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the OT, p. 22) (Herbert Bateman, “Psalm 110:1 and the NT,” Bibliothecra Sacra, Oct.-Dec., 1992, p. 438).Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)
None of this applies, he-man, because as I've already noted, it's not the written word 'adonai' that's being referred to, but rather the fact that whenever a Jewish reader of the Tanakh came to the divine name 'YHWH' they spoke the word 'adonai' in its place. It doesn't matter how it was used as a written word, but instead how it was intended as a spoken one.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dcyates

Senior Member
May 28, 2005
1,513
88
58
Calgary, AB.
✟2,162.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
:doh:Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORDH3068 said unto my Lord,H113 Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.H3068 יהוה Jehovah
H113 'âdôn


Mat 22:44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)
The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God
Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

It's not clear to me, he-man, how this is a response to Radagast's point that Ps 110.1 is obviously quoted in the NT in Greek, not Hebrew. (Incidentally, it is the most quoted or alluded to OT verse in the entire NT, appearing nearly two dozen times: Matt 22.44 [26.64]; Mk 12.36 [16.19]; Lk 20.42-43 [22.69]; Acts 2.34-35 [7.55f]; [Rom 8.34] 1 Cor 15.25 [Eph 1.20; Col 3.1]; Heb 1.[3,] 13 [5.6, 10; 6.20; 7.17, 21; 8.1; 10.12; 12.2; 1 Pet 3.22]. It has been rightly called the "beginning point" of NT Christology.) As such, there is no difference in the word 'kurios' and 'kurio'; one being merely nominative and the other dative.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0