How should a "Christian" deal with "heretics"?

[ToBeLoved]

Ad hominems, changing the subject, and ignoring the requests, are typical responses by someone whom feels they have no further rebuttal. So I will ask one last time, and I also 'pray' that you address them:

1. Present an actual rationale as to why it is not inconsistent for individuals to accept a resurrection claim, but reject a flood claim - being that both claims apparently came from the same authority, and are both very large and serious assertions which would change humanity forever.

2. Provide an apparent valid source to support the claim from the Bible, because you cannot use the claim to prove the claim....

************

Furthermore, if what you state is correct, you are then requesting that God removes my free will. Or even worse, allows billions to go to hell because God chooses to only reveal truth to certain individuals. And if prayer does work, then pray for the billions whom believe in opposing entities, which will continue to do so until their last earthly breath, and then explain why your prayer did nothing to change the results So if prayer does work in such circumstances, why would you add me to your 'list'? By default, if prayer works, as you seem to suggest, you should have already prayed for everyone.

I don’t believe in what you listed as point 1.

I believe in both the flood and the resurrection. Both are in the Bible.

Maybe you do t realize both are in the Bible.

 

[cvanwey]

I don’t believe in what you listed as point 1.

I believe in both the flood and the resurrection. Both are in the Bible.

Maybe you do t realize both are in the Bible.

It's as if you did not even read any of my responses.

 

[Freodin]

I’d ask you for your proof verses from the Bible.

Would you? Really?

Then all I would do is request that you go to the thread I mentioned - The Adam and Eve are in devorce, so it is time to revise the Methodology of Science - and look at all the verses that Amam777 uses to proclaim his idea that the flood happened on a different "world".

I really wonder why it is so

I’d ask you for your proof verses from the Bible.

Would you indeed?

So will you then go to the thread I had linked to and look at all the "proof verses" that were presented there?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Well, I am asking for a specific reason. For some time now I (and others) have been engaged here on the forum with a Christian who has some... really weird... positions.

He claims to be backed up by "science" and "history"... and based on that alone the skeptical group has taken it on them to reveal his... falsehoods.

It's funny how I instantly knew who you are talking about, once I read the highlighted words.

But I found it interesting that no Christian... none, regardless of their position regarding the early history of the world - theistic evolution, OEC, YEC, GAP or whatever - has deigned to weigh in.

YES. That's something that crossed my mind plenty of times as well. I also hinted towards that multiple times in my responses, explicitly calling it out how I've never seen any christian hold to such beliefs and that he stands alone in his beliefs and seems to have constructed his very own special version of christianity.

Just to see if any christian would care to weigh in. But alas, nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.

But still... I find the silence of the people who like to debate most anything here quite interesting.

Me too and I will be reading this thread with great attention.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You would have to give us an example of the "really weird" positions. I've probably heard them all before.

Are you sure?

Did you hear the one where it says that Noah's Ark was really like a space-submarine-type ship and that Adam, Eve and Eden wasn't on this planet and that on this planet evolution happened and produced "lesser humans" who then gained "divine intellect" when they reproduced with the sons of Noah and stuff?

It's quite a story. And it apparantly all agrees with "science, history and the bible"!

 

[DogmaHunter]

I’ve tagged you for prayer .

I am going to pray for you that God shows you His Truth.

May the Lord God Almighty bless you with His wisdom and grace.

I've always found this to have a special kind of arrogance.....
Do you really actually believe that your Lord God Almighty will now give the dude some divine wisdom because you asked him to do so?

 

[RDKirk]

I was speaking about Noah and the flood claim, not Moses

Furthermore, we are not speaking about an erroneous or mundane claim here. We are talking about a catastrophic claimed event....

But let's compare the two - (1. Noah's flood vs 2. a resurrection):

1.

(2 rhetorical questions to illustrate a point):

Did Noah's flood actually happen (yes or no)?
Did the flood accomplish God's task?

This is an axiomatic answer. It either did or did not happen. To state it is not a deal breaker defies one of the main premises and points of the OT, which was the claimed method in which God chose to rid the world of evil. If it actually did not happen, then an entire story line for the OT is vastly askew.

2.


(2 rhetorical questions to illustrate a point):

Did the resurrection happen (yes or no)?
Did the resurrection accomplish God's task?

This is an axiomatic answer. It either did or did not happen. To state it is not a deal breaker defies one of the main points of the NT, which was the claimed method in which God chose to provide salvation. If it actually did not happen, then an entire story line for the NT is vastly askew.



If the claims to a human exterminating flood, commanded by God, is false, which lies within the very same book as the claim of a resurrection, why is a 'resurrection' deemed more credible than any other claim? Especially when Bible passages state that 'all scripture is God breathed', which highlights the OT specifically, and even more prevalently?



If there actually is 3.3 billion Christians, than it is safe to say that all 3.3 billion 'believe' in a resurrection claim. Otherwise, they are not 'Christians', by definition. So why is this not the case for a flood claim? I'll tell you why...... Because it is perfectly acceptable to state you do not agree with a flood claim, and still possibly be saved

Please answer the question in red below:

But is it intellectually honest to state you believe in a resurrection, even if the evidence does not seem to follow as such, just like the many whom don't believe in a flood claim, because the evidence does not follow as such?

Back when I was active duty as a military intelligence analyst, I was taught that when you were interrogating someone and he answered your question, you didn't argue with him. Your purpose was to get the information, not to convince him that he is wrong.

You asked the question, you got the answer.

So you have been given the answer that among the majority of Christians, the Nicene Creed lists the essential elements of faith, without which the belief is not considered Christian.

If we tell you that we're not concerned with your "what abouts," why keep saying "what about?"

 

[ToBeLoved]

Would you? Really?

Then all I would do is request that you go to the thread I mentioned - The Adam and Eve are in devorce, so it is time to revise the Methodology of Science - and look at all the verses that Amam777 uses to proclaim his idea that the flood happened on a different "world".

I really wonder why it is so

Would you indeed?

So will you then go to the thread I had linked to and look at all the "proof verses" that were presented there?

Why you would reference a thread in Life Sciences when I have no idea what you are even referencing is not feasible.

If you would truly like answers, it would be best for you to copy and paste from that thread directly here.

I cannot read anyone s mind.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I've always found this to have a special kind of arrogance.....
Do you really actually believe that your Lord God Almighty will now give the dude some divine wisdom because you asked him to do so?

God does answer prayer.

If God chooses, He can do that.

 

[DogmaHunter]

God does answer prayer.
If God chooses, He can do that.

I know you believe that.

I just make the observation.... it seems incredibly arrogant of you to think that this god will reveal things to an atheist, just because you ask him to. As if this god requires your request.
Why on earth would he alter his "divine plan" because a puny mortal human such as you, asks for it?

 

[Freodin]

Why you would reference a thread in Life Sciences when I have no idea what you are even referencing is not feasible.

If you would truly like answers, it would be best for you to copy and paste from that thread directly here.

I cannot read anyone s mind.

But you can read the english language?

This is a thread on Christian Forums. It's not as if I want to send you to some phishing platform, or a porn site.

Why is is so difficult for a Christian, any Christian here, to go to this thread you mentioned, read the relevant posts and add your educated theological opinion to this topic?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I know you believe that.

I just make the observation.... it seems incredibly arrogant of you to think that this god will reveal things to an atheist, just because you ask him to. As if this god requires your request.
Why on earth would he alter his "divine plan" because a puny mortal human such as you, asks for it?

Maybe God will open your eyes so you become one of His Children. We do have many former atheists that have become believers.

I hope God touches your heart and reveals Himself to you.

 

[ToBeLoved]

But you can read the english language?

This is a thread on Christian Forums. It's not as if I want to send you to some phishing platform, or a porn site.

Why is is so difficult for a Christian, any Christian here, to go to this thread you mentioned, read the relevant posts and add your educated theological opinion to this topic?

I have a limited amount of time like most people and that thread is over 11 pages long. You can see the dilemma

 

[DogmaHunter]

Maybe God will open your eyes so you become one of His Children.

And do you really believe that if you don't ask for him to do that, that he won't?
Or that he will, if you ask for it?

We do have many former atheists that have become believers.

We also have many former believers that have become atheist.
So what?

I hope God touches your heart and reveals Himself to you.

You must not be praying hard enough.

 

[ToBeLoved]

And do you really believe that if you don't ask for him to do that, that he won't?
Or that he will, if you ask for it?

I know God hears every prayer and petition we pray.

I believe your chances are much better with people praying for you.

I hope God touches your heart and mind with His grace.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We also have many former believers that have become atheist.
So what?

All I’m saying is that you are not a special kind of sinner. We are all sinners and have fallen short of perfect holiness. That is why we need Jesus Christ, the only Holy One, to stand in our place at judgement.

Christian s are still sinners and still fall short of holiness.

The difference is that we have our Advocate and Saviour to stand in our place.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You must not be praying hard enough.

Well I must say it is nice that you are good with me praying for you. I will continue and pray harder for you. Jesus loves you! Even if you don’t love Him. He waits with open arms for you to change your mind.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I know God hears every prayer and petition we pray.

No, you believe that.

I believe your chances are much better with people praying for you.
I hope God touches your heart and mind with His grace.

People have been "praying for me" for years now.
Nothing seems to be happening.

So either you aren't praying hard enough, you aren't praying to the right god, god doesn't exist or god doesn't care enough.

Which do you think it is?

 

[DogmaHunter]

All I’m saying is that you are not a special kind of sinner. We are all sinners and have fallen short of perfect holiness. That is why we need Jesus Christ, the only Holy One, to stand in our place at judgement.

In my puny mortal human opinion, it is deeply immoral and unjust to punish a scapegoat to absolve others of their supposed guilt. Deeply, deeply immoral.

Christian s are still sinners and still fall short of holiness.
The difference is that we have our Advocate and Saviour to stand in our place.

Convenient, isn't it?
Lucky you.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Well I must say it is nice that you are good with me praying for you.

Why would I mind you thinking about me?

I will continue and pray harder for you.

Maybe gather some extra folk and make a day out of it? I vote for a nice bbq in my honor.
Call it "saving dogmahunter day".

Jesus loves you!

"and if you don't believe that, he'll send you to hell to suffer for eternity!"

Even if you don’t love Him. He waits with open arms for you to change your mind.

I require a valid reason to change my mind first.
Got any?